Laundry

[Captain Midnight]

Western perspectives on personal hygiene aside; if your average flight is seven to ten days, is their really a need for a laundry onboard a scout or freighter?

The environment is carefully controlled and dirt and perspiration is likely kept to a minimum, so flight suits and crew coveralls could probably worn multiple times before really needing a change. A solitary Scout probably has little reason to change at all until making landfall or going ashore.

I'd say it depends on how certain you are that "seven to ten days" is going to be the actual length of time you're going to have to go between access to a laundry. If you're going to have a short run of 7 to 10 days 99 times out of 100, then you might or might not need the onboard laundry, but if 2 out of 5 trips are longer, then it might be a problem.

There's also going to be issues with accidents ("Oops, I spilled my kung pao chicken in your lap") and with systems that are not completely self-contained ("Cleaning the wastewater filtration units isn't always pleasant"), or just plain malfuctioning ("That actuator was sticking but with my trusty hydrospanner, I showed it who was boss"). Leaving aside issues of just how you "minimize perspiration" for multiple people, there are also personal items of clothing that need to be cleaned on a more frequent basis, such as underwear and socks.

I think it'll wind up being needful to have some facilities for at least basic cleaning onboard the ship. It doesn't have to be capable of handing every possible insult to every possible garment, but your ship's going to be pretty disgusting if you omit that element.

 

[Captain Midnight]

Why would a scout flying solo in a type S or X-boat even bother with clothes at all?

Pockets. There's also potential glitches with temperature control to be concerned with, and for some people, garments provide useful support and keep tender bits out of the way.

 

[Ran Targas]

Even if a ship's crew doesn't exert itself too much while onboard, once planetside while adventuring I'd suspect there could be at times a chance to really exert yourself. Also, I'd suspect that having a small laundry on a ship for the crew would give a crew alot more flexibility in allowing you to do your cleaning whenever you want rather than having to take the time when planet side, when you could be out adventuring, etc.

I was mostly speaking to the space travel portion; I assume Scouts in the field would equip themselves appropriately. Then again, Scouts in the field may have less need for uniform changes and more need to carry other supplies. I've done some long distance hiking where a clean change of clothes was the least of my concerns.

In real life I've spent a little time working with small craft test crews as well as doing some ship checks myself, and although you can wear a pair of coveralls (or a flight suit) for a couple days in a row, usually I ended up getting my laundry done once a week.

So you're that guy!?! I know what you mean about wearing coveralls well beyond their intended life span. I've also been so busy onboard ship that laundry was secondary to a long list of other priorities. It's only when you have to wear a pair of socks a second day do you realize you're out.

If you're going to have a short run of 7 to 10 days 99 times out of 100, then you might or might not need the onboard laundry, but if 2 out of 5 trips are longer, then it might be a problem.

I agree, it was a generalization. If a crew expects to be away from civilization for extended periods, then a laundry might be something they want to install in an unused corner. There might be other things as well pertaining to the food and entertainment threads that are running here simultaneously.

There's also going to be issues with accidents ("Oops, I spilled my kung pao chicken in your lap") and with systems that are not completely self-contained ("Cleaning the wastewater filtration units isn't always pleasant"), or just plain malfuctioning ("That actuator was sticking but with my trusty hydrospanner, I showed it who was boss").

I concur, coveralls are meant to get dirty and they don't take up much space. So one set get some gunk all over them; just change. I would assume in the far future there may be something better than stain resistant cloth or Scotch Guard to treat clothing that may alleviate this problem.

Leaving aside issues of just how you "minimize perspiration" for multiple people, there are also personal items of clothing that need to be cleaned on a more frequent basis, such as underwear and socks.

Socks are something I'm sure could be engineered better. I have some wicking socks that seem to reasonably un-scary to wear twice. But with what I would expect would be the normal evolution of clothing, even better materials would be available.

I think it'll wind up being needful to have some facilities for at least basic cleaning onboard the ship. It doesn't have to be capable of handing every possible insult to every possible garment, but your ship's going to be pretty disgusting if you omit that element.

I have to disagree about the disgusting part. A lot of that is Western perception. There are a number of cultures on this planet where such things are not considered as important as others. It may be shock to cultured Western noses, but it's their norm.

But back to vacc suits and what Travellers wear; what about a body glove under garment for vacc suits that are used to regulate heat and moisture? Like a 2mm wet suit or Under Armor uni. The body glove could be worn around ship, maybe under a flight suit or coveralls, or under a vacc suit, where it performs the previously mentioned function. It could even be worn separate by fit Travellers without much embarassment.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

... I have to disagree about the disgusting part. A lot of that is Western perception. There are a number of cultures on this planet where such things are not considered as important as others. It may be shock to cultured Western noses, but it's their norm...

Hi,

I guess this could go the other way round as well. There may be some planets/cultures where cleanliness and hygeine might be an issue, for instance how the Vulcan's were portrayed on the TV series "Enterprise". Trying to negotiate business dealsand attract patrons or buyers or sellers for your cargo on a planet with a similar culture, when you don't have an acceptible level of hygeine or cleanliness might be a real draw back. Similarly, I'd suspect that it could have a drawback on your relative social standing as well.

Anyway just some additional thoughts.

Regards

PF

 

[Imperial Planetologist]

Pockets.

Need stray coins or the house keys while in jump, do ya?

There's also potential glitches with temperature control to be concerned with . . .

So then you put on a sweater. Or a vacc suit, depending on just how bad that glitch is.

On routine jumps it's going to vary only as much as the pilot decides it will.

. . . and for some people, garments provide useful support and keep tender bits out of the way.

Graphically argued indeed.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Thanks for all the input. The laundry thing actually turned out to be a non-issue as such. Originally I was going to take the story in a certain direction, but scrapped the idea in favor of something a little more dynamic and Traveller-like.

As a result it's turned out be a much better work. Even better than my first offering to MJD, which he properly shot down (truth be told I didn't have much faith in it, but gave it to him for some feedback, and he was brutally honest, for which I am ever indebted).

Anyways, thanks for the feebacks. They are much appreciated

 

[far-trader]

...Anyways, thanks for the feebacks. They are much appreciated

That's cool. Reminds me of a story (not the fiction kind) told by a writer (can't recall for sure, might have been Asimov or Clarke) about how they once did a bunch of research for a story (of the fiction kind) just for one line in a novel in the end. And I have a feeling the kicker was that line was one the editor cut. But, the research itself and the ideas it spawned and the veracity in the mind of the author it added below the surface made the whole that much better. Point being, as you discovered, you lose nothing by going down the side roads and may find much that comes back twice fold in other ways.

 

[Bishop Odo]

Some thirty years ago, I remember seeing TV news bit on an ultrasonic washing machine that was invented by the same Japanese’s inventor who invented the floppy disk. The patent was bought by a consortium of clothing manufactures, for the sole purpose of keeping it off the market, you see the cleaning process did not wear out clothes, and the consortium was protecting there market share. Also, I remember it mention that it was smaller, faster and used less water in the cleaning process, funny how these tidbits where so trivial at the time. Just a little food for thought.

 

[aramis]

And the patent is exired now.

 

[whtknght]

How many people remember to have a room for your low passengers to freshen up before they leave the ship? Or do you just say, hey, you've only worn that for a week, have fun stinking up the starport!

I suppose you could have the med bay near the low berths, and use the med bay for cleanup/triage of your low passengers... And don't forget the awarding of the low lottery winnings.

o:

I always install the Low Berths adjacent to the sickbay. I mean, the Ships Doc is the one who monitors and revives them.

 

[whtknght]

Western perspectives on personal hygiene aside; if your average flight is seven to ten days, is their really a need for a laundry onboard a scout or freighter?

The environment is carefully controlled and dirt and perspiration is likely kept to a minimum, so flight suits and crew coveralls could probably worn multiple times before really needing a change. A solitary Scout probably has little reason to change at all until making landfall or going ashore.

If you have passengers onboard, then things may be a little different. I imagine such ships would be equipped with a small washer and drier out of necessity, if only for bedding and other sundries. Still, the crew could easily put away a week's worth of clothing, so the need to wash for them is minimal.

Otherwise, this is just another reason to wander the starport to find a good deal. I'm sure anywhere there are Scouts or merchants in need, entrepeneurs will rise up to render whatever service is necessary. They might even wash and repair vacc suits.

That was always my firt stop when making planetfall. Do a weeks worth of laundry. Later that evening after a good meal, it was time for drinking at the starport bar

 

[shadowdragon]

well John Ringo actually solved this issue for us:

nanny naps!

YEAH JOHNBOY!!!!!!!!

of course nanites are probably not canon.......

 

[ThunderChilde]

Heh, yeah, reading a lot of Ringo these days. I do not see why nanno isn't OTU, like an awful lot of things, its a background thing. Why do you suppose HiTech meds work like they do or the form fitting high tl space suits? Nanno, just doesn't work out like it seems like it would. It's just part of the world around you, instead of being a theme.

 

[rancke]

I suppose you could have the med bay near the low berths, and use the med bay for cleanup/triage of your low passengers... And don't forget the awarding of the low lottery winnings.

I don't forget it, I deliberately ignore it. IMO the Low Lottery is an urban legend. After all, even if a Free Trader did have a mortality rating of the kind we see in the CT rules (through worn-out low berths and a less-than-competent medic) he's hardly going to advertise the fact that his low berths are potentially lethal, now is he?


Hans

 

[BlackBat242]

I do not see why nanno isn't OTU, like an awful lot of things, its a background thing.

1. Because the concept hadn't become widespread when Traveller was created.

2. Because by the time concept had become widespread (and other versions than CT were created) it was obvious that Sci-Fi authors were using it in ways that would completely break the game if it was allowed its full potential*.

Eventually, every aspect of life becomes a contest of who bought/programmed the best nanotech... smart bullets that reconfigure to defeat the armor the target is wearing, but that armor is also reconfiguring to counter the bullet... and so on, ad nauseum.


*Mike Sheppard's Smartmetal™... fully reconfigurable ships' hulls that can change shape: thicken to form armour, then thin and open up like a door, alter the very configuration of the hull, and so on.

*Medical nanos that can rebuild a person from the inside out make it probable that everyone will have Str/Dex/End of 15... etc.

 

[shadowdragon]

Reconfiguring at the molecular or atomic level is going to take time, materials and power- more time and power than a bullet has before impact to be sure. Changing armor to counter the bullet takes time to do as well, which the armor doesnt have. Plus - in order to thicken the armor either extra armor atoms need to be carried, which increases mass and volume requirements, or the hull would have to be made smaller to accommodate the extra thickness, or another part has to be weakened/thinned.

Nanites are small, therefore they take a significant amount of time to travel any distance at all. How long does an ant take to go 100 yards? A 5 micron or so robot moving a meter? Takes time. Lots of time in my opinion. I would rather walk over and open the manual hatch than wait the hour or so for the nanite door to magically appear in the blank wall. Nanotech as presented in most scifi is way over the top if you ask me. Nannites are good for thinking ahead, and after the fact, but not so good on the fly.

Medical nanites are another thing- yes everyone could wind up with 15's for physical stats, or whatever your particular system uses. But why would they if they dont need it? I might see a civilization having the proles end/con set high for heath issues and all, but dex and str would definitely be less common or at the least necessity driven (cargo handlers, emergency services, corporate pilots etc...). Your average joe would likely not have it because of cost/time requirements - available does not automatically imply cheap. Plus we have size issues to deal with for on board computing/memory.

Nanites are a wonderful idea, but they are not practical or believable in the most common sci fi genres. John Ringo at least has his nanites needing a goodly amount of time to do anything at all and they have limits on what miracles they can perform.

of course- this is my opinion.

 

[abomination]

The big haulers just stack the dozens or more lowberths in cargo slots and the actual freeze and thaw is done starportside in dedicated facilities. The hauler just handles it like freight, and popsicles making multiple jumps just stay on or get shifted to another ship.

I hope they have a better system than the baggage handlers at most airports.

"What I am doing here? And what do you mean you don't know where the rest of my family are?"

 

[far-trader]

I hope they have a better system than the baggage handlers at most airports.

"What I am doing here? And what do you mean you don't know where the rest of my family are?"

I've always wanted to use exactly that as a plot mcguffin, but it's so blammed hard getting PCs into the coffins, er, lowberths in the first place (maybe if I stopped calling them coffins, and the occupants corpsicles :devil: )

 

[abomination]

Well, yeah, but they aren't supposed to know that :smirk:

Sometimes the hardest part on an adventure for a ref is separating the PCs from all their gear so things can get at least a little interesting :devil:

truer words never spoken

I just drop a point or two from their stats for the tiredness from lack of sleep & being generally uncomfortable

 

[Merxiless]

In the navy, on the ship, we had a small room just forward of engineering, with industrial size washers and dryers, along with those long auto-press steam machines / tables for pressing pants and such. Long folding clamshell deal with hot steam. as I recall, about 6 guys worked that room and the barbershop. "Ship's Servicemen" Ratings.

This was on a ship of around 400 crew.

At sea, we'd stencil our clothes and put them in a set of a few giant laundry bags with a drawstring, then once a week, two junior guys would haul them aft to the laundry, then by the end of the day, they'd be washed, we'd come back and all hands would call out names and sort to each other. Lots of stuff went missing, constantly.

In port, many would do laundry on base at a little coin op place a few blocks from the pier.