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Skin tight vacc suits, really?

T

Thunderbolt

SOC-12
While a skin tight vacc suit might be a favourite of book cover artists and teenage SF readers everywhere:

http://images.contentreserve.com/Im...868587-6958-4154-88DB-EAF8870327D0}Img100.jpg

the depiction of the progression of vacc suits from TL9 to TL15 in "Grand Survey" got me thinking that no matter what tech level (to a point), a vacc suit must provide an environment that both allows movement and an atmospheric pressure to keep everything where it should be.

If a suit is hugging the skin, how does it prevent the body from ballooning out in a vacuum and still allow movement?
 
Last I heard future proposed space suits were going to be hard shelled like deep sea suits. Hemispheres would form joints that would allow the human body to move in all its natural directions.

Of course, that information is about 15 years old... not sure what the progress has been on the concept.
 
Both NASA and MIT are going with wire-reinforced elastic material conformal undersuits as the primary mode, with baggy and armored oversuits to protect the undersuit.
 
I'd say that, at TL 10, the skin-suits get tougher AND more comfortable, and add microbladders to fill in the assorted hollows, and myomers to overcome the suit-stiffness, and to assist in breathing. Plus lighter and more efficient scrubbers and O2 tanks.
 
The next six will make it easier to dress and undress, improve materials, include nanotech, add intelligent active conformity, etc.

Maybe by TL15 you just step into a bag and jiggle about while it conforms to your body.
 
Supposedly NASA actually tested these as far back as the early 1970's. Jerry Pournelle wrote an article about how he watched a guy wearing what looked a lot like a SCUBA suit function just fine in a depressureization chamber as they pumped all the air out of it. I think the piece was collected in 'A Step Farther Out' but it's been at least 20 years since I read it.

If they could do it at TL7, they can do it better later on.
 
Any of the next steps need to significantly improve the plumbing of any space suit, especially with regards to female astronauts.


Bill
 
The spacesuit provides breathing oxygen, pressure, protection from micrometeorites and heating and cooling to keep the astronaut at a comfortable temperature.

Remember, future technology uses methods that are not possible, and maybe not even conceivable today - thats why its future tech and not current tech.

breathing oxygen: Future technology may include small, lightweight air recycling systems so that that only a small amount of the air supplied is carried.

pressure: I believe we either have or are close to having this capability in skintight material.

protection from micrometeorites: Future tech could develop a layer of flexible material [like ballistic cloth armor] that can allow the wearer to withstand the impact.

heating and cooling: Material made out of hollow thread that allows cooling and heating fluids to circulate within the material, highly heat reflective surfaces to reflect outside heat away and inside heat back inward, who knows what future tech may bring.
 
CG,

That's an impressive list, but you forgot waste disposal.

Future vacc suits will have to address that issue and they'll have to address it for both sexes.


Regards,
Bill
 
Thunderbolt said:
While a skin tight vacc suit might be a favourite of book cover artists and teenage SF readers everywhere:
Click to expand...

Cover artists are concerned with getting an eye-catching image for the book, so folk will pick it up and read it, not with the bio-mechanical specs of how suits work. Drawing skin-tight suits is an artist short-cut, draw a nude and then paint it to make it look space-suity. The reason teenage fans like it is too obvious to mention. ;)

Cheers,

Weaver
 
Whipsnade said:
CG,

That's an impressive list, but you forgot waste disposal.

Future vacc suits will have to address that issue and they'll have to address it for both sexes.


Regards,
Bill
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. You don't have waste disposal in a scuba suit. You don't wear it long enough to need plumbing.

The reason we have waste disposal in TL7 suits is that they have to be worn for extended periods, since we don't have the tech to provide pressurised accommodation nearby, and the suits are too awkward to climb in and out of every time you get a call of nature.

In the future, when almost every space situation will have pressurised buildings and vehicles nearby, and the suits can be peeled open and resealed in seconds, plumbing may only be necessary for prolonged military missions - with special military suits.
 
Icosahedron said:
Not necessarily. You don't have waste disposal in a scuba suit. You don't wear it long enough to need plumbing.
Click to expand...


Icosahedron,

Ever dive? Scuba suits don't have waste disposal systems to handle... well... feces.

Urine on the other hand is handled very neatly in a wet suit, the suit itself is the disposal system, and urine is only a somewhat minor irritant in dry suits.

When NASA suits up - you know NASA, the guys who currently have actual experience with "vacc suits"? - when they suit up liquid waste disposal systems are part of the package and they're damned inconvenient for female astronauts.

Higher tech suits are going to have to tackle both Number One and Number Two.


Regards,
Bill
 
Ironically enough this is something that crossed my mind when I was thinking of pursuing a career as an astronaut. From an engineering standpoint it would seem to make sense to have something afixed to the human disposal ducts, and to have a working system to evacuate the waste material into a storage area. Or, depending on the environment, discharge or recycle. At very high tech levels said waste material might used as fuel for the suit's power system.
 
Higher tech suits are going to have to tackle ... Number Two.
Click to expand...
big catheter, with on-demand solvent irrigation supplied by a pump/filter/compactor unit. vacc suit maintenance would include dropping the catheter in an autoclave, replacing the filter and the material storage module with new ones, and occasionally replacing the solvent.

'course I'd completely ignore this in a game.

Future technology may include small, lightweight air recycling systems so that that only a small amount of the air supplied is carried.
Click to expand...
still want a reserve though. don't want a small leak or system failure to morph instantly to crisis.
 
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Whipsnade said:
Icosahedron,

Ever dive? Scuba suits don't have waste disposal systems to handle... well... feces.

Urine on the other hand is handled very neatly in a wet suit, the suit itself is the disposal system, and urine is only a somewhat minor irritant in dry suits.

When NASA suits up - you know NASA, the guys who currently have actual experience with "vacc suits"? - when they suit up liquid waste disposal systems are part of the package and they're damned inconvenient for female astronauts.

Higher tech suits are going to have to tackle both Number One and Number Two.


Regards,
Bill
Click to expand...

No, I've never been diving, though I have worn a wet suit for surface water sports (for short enough periods that I had no need to stain it) and I know what NASA does today, I just don't think they will always do it. :)

I think you're missing my point here. Plumbing is only necessary if the suit is to be worn for prolonged periods without access to external disposal systems, and I think the biggest difference high tech will make is to reduce significantly the amount of time a person needs to wear a suit, and significantly increase access to external disposal, in terms of both location of units and ease of disrobing.
If in the far future going to the head in space becomes a two minute detour, suit plumbing becomes a low tech anachronism or a special mission fallback.

EDIT:
Take a situation like a Moon mission. At TL7 you have an immobile Eagle lander which may or may not include a head (not familiar with the deckplan). If so, it will be an uncomfortable suction device and it will take the best part of an hour to remove and replace your suit, probably requiring the assistance of a colleague. The lunar rover has no facilities whatsoever.

Yes, you need suit plumbing.

Fast forward to TLX. Your lander can move anywhere anytime, both the lander and the ATV are shirtsleeve environments with a 'normal' fresher, and you can remove and replace your suit unaided like motorcycle leathers in a matter of seconds.

What excuse do you have for soiling your pants now?

OK, marines staking out a 36 hour ambush might need special suits, and I can see a need for plumbing for long term emergency survival situations, but I think there will be a big difference between a routine activity 'skinny suit' and a long term 'survival suit'.
 
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