Telepathy in traveller?

[Trent]

How do you handle telepathy in traveller?

If an NPC has telepathy and you don't want the players to know, how do you handle it? If you ask them what their players are really thinking as opposed to what they are saying, it's a giveaway that someon is a telepath. if the players make a promise but intend to break it the telepath would know, buyt if they knew there was a telepath around they could not have acted that way, so how do you handle this situation?

PS this isn't just for traveller but any RPG where telepathy is a possibility.

 

[Icosahedron]

Telepathy doesn't necessarily work perfectly every time. Instead of rolling dice and asking players to reveal their characters' thoughts, you could use the GM's knowledge to give the NPC the best possible advantage. In some cases the GM will know that the PCs are planning a double-cross, and in some cases he won't. In some cases he'll have a strong suspicion. If the NPC knows (or suspects) what the GM knows (or suspects), I imagine that would make him a powerful enough adversary without needing to know any ultimate truths.

 

[sabredog]

Since telepathy is possible in the game, usually once the players find that the same guy has had the uncanny knack for showing up at just the right time, or always beating them to the draw (of whatever kind), then they start suspecting a telepath whether or not that may be the truth about the NPC.

SInce I'm the GM and I know everything that goes on in the game - except for what the players don't outright tell me, then it's not too hard to run the telepath NPC secretly, either. But I keep it rare because I don't want the players to think I'm cheating them.

If they are telepathic themselves, then the PC's get various levels of detail on their "readings" depending on things like how many points they put into it, range, and species. I don't know about all the intricacies of the OTU, but IMTU telepaths only work with the same species.

But I do allow the players to try to "burn through" the mental shielding of other telepaths (and NPC's too) but then the chance of detection is greater.

 

[stealth]

How I do it.

The way I run telepathy is that the telepath asks a question - a "probe". He get's an answer. That takes one turn. Each question is a probe.

Telepathy works on the whole level of the mind, so even if you know you are being probed, you can't lie.

In my games, the target isn't aware unless he is also psionically aware - then he can tell who is probing him. In other words, probing is invasive, even painfull, and if you know about telepthy, then you know it's a probe. We call that "mind rape".

In my game, even an unaware character get's a nose bleed and a headache.

 

[Lycanorukke]

A way I found which can work is to allow the telepath to hear 'OOC chatter' between the players.

If the Psi is scanning surface thoughts and one of the players (not the PC) "No dont say that, ask him about..." then the Psi picks it up. In this way the Psi can make idle comments and as the players discuss amoung themselves before having their PC's reply, can pick up all sorts of goodies.

The down side is a house rule to prevent psi-abuse. Using a scan thoughts on a non-psi has a small chance (based on certain stats) of making the 'scanee' feel uneasy - as if something is not quite right, someone is staring at them, their neck hairs stand up, etc. They may not make the association at first or put it down to something else, but if the psi keeps on scaning willy nilly somepeople will eventually suspect somthing is odd about him. A full blown mid probe always gets an answer but is as subtle as a brick through a window and even non-psi's can feel it.

And that is when the torches and pitchforks tend to come out.

 

[Icosahedron]

How do you play this one?
The PCs are being hunted by a team of black-ops psi adepts.
How do you handle the fact that clairvoyants can see where the PCs are and hear what they're planning? How can the PCs evade people with those powers?

 

[aramis]

How do you play this one?
The PCs are being hunted by a team of black-ops psi adepts.
How do you handle the fact that clairvoyants can see where the PCs are and hear what they're planning? How can the PCs evade people with those powers?

If they are at range, then they are using Teleperception to localize them... but are probably not close enough for Telepathic probes for their plan. They are gonna be able to escape only if (1) they know the peeps are out there and (2) they can get out of range.

In that scenario, one group of PC's dropped a bomb with some biowarfare agent, and then without a threat, headed for the starport... and hired the first ship out. Once aboard, they suggested a jump elsewhere.

It got the peeps diverted.

Also, unless you're using TNE, Peeps can't be continuous. (In GT, they are better than CT/MT/T4/T20, but not as unfettered as TNE. HT likewise has LTE, so a few days of continuous, but not too much.)

You just have to keep going long enough for the peeps to tire out. And maybe give them something else to work on.

 

[Lycanorukke]

A lot depends on how you interpret clairvoyance/clairaudience.

Is the 'sensor' fixed in location once the connection is made? And what is it fixed in relation to for each usage? If it is 'set' to a specific location then all the PC's have to do is jump in an elevator or move into another room. And can the Psi 'hear' both sides of a telephone conversation or just the side where there 'sensor' is? If it actually follows people around (fixed to a person) then they just shift to a foreign langauge (anyone here speak Irilitok?) and unless the Psi knows the language he is SOL.

Briefly flicking through the Clairvoyace notes it looks like Traveller Psi requires the Psi to 'know' roughly where the location/person is by direction. Looking at the Meg-T rules (they were at hand) - A character may specify the exact location at which he is applying the ability if it is out of physical sight by direction, provided he has knowledge of the location by experience or description. So if the Psi has to know roughly where the PC's are and have some rough knowledge of their location (they're in room 46A in that building). They can't just make a humming noise and suddenly tap into the PC's conversations at will (so to speak).

Another I vaguely remember being mentioned in one of the Trav digests is that the imperial palace is Psi-shielded against espionage. So it could be interpreted as shielding against Telepaths and Clairvoyants. So concievably the PC's could get ahold of some 'room shields'.

 

[Icosahedron]

A lot depends on how you interpret clairvoyance/clairaudience.

You're right. Maybe I'm making the pursuers too powerful. I'm using CT with houserules.

Is the 'sensor' fixed in location once the connection is made? And what is it fixed in relation to for each usage? If it is 'set' to a specific location then all the PC's have to do is jump in an elevator or move into another room. And can the Psi 'hear' both sides of a telephone conversation or just the side where there 'sensor' is? If it actually follows people around (fixed to a person) then they just shift to a foreign langauge (anyone here speak Irilitok?) and unless the Psi knows the language he is SOL.

Briefly flicking through the Clairvoyace notes it looks like Traveller Psi requires the Psi to 'know' roughly where the location/person is by direction. Looking at the Meg-T rules (they were at hand) - A character may specify the exact location at which he is applying the ability if it is out of physical sight by direction, provided he has knowledge of the location by experience or description. So if the Psi has to know roughly where the PC's are and have some rough knowledge of their location (they're in room 46A in that building). They can't just make a humming noise and suddenly tap into the PC's conversations at will (so to speak).

I have it fixed to a person (at least for some clairvoyants). Essentially, the clairvoyant performs Psychometry - reading of an object (a possession) - in order to get a 'fix' on a target, and then gradually homes in on the target's whereabouts. Once the location is known, conventional agents can be sent in to apprehend or eliminate the quarry.
I can't think of any way to evade this other than constantly moving, which will be more of a PITA for the PCs than I intended.

Another I vaguely remember being mentioned in one of the Trav digests is that the imperial palace is Psi-shielded against espionage. So it could be interpreted as shielding against Telepaths and Clairvoyants. So concievably the PC's could get ahold of some 'room shields'.

Hmm. I can see how shielding might protect against telepaths, but its effectiveness against clairvoyants is not so obvious.

I'm stepping a little outside the bare rules here, but I'm trying to follow logic (eg psychometry). Unfortunately, logic dictates too much power for the psions.

 

[Whipsnade]

How do you play this one?

Icosahedron,

Aramis beat me to the punch, especially with regards to the "peeps" in most versions not being active 24/7, so I'll confine myself to generalities.

Oddly enough, I never had a player interested in being psionic. The few times I explicitly introduced psionics to adventures and campaigns, it was always through a NPC. I didn't feel strongly about psionics one way or another but, because my players showed little interest, I rarely introduced it.

When I did use psionics - sometimes without the players realizing - I was always struck by the limitations placed on the various skill, especially in CT. Look at "Read Surface Thoughts" for example.

You have to have an natural psi strength of 4, not too hard, but in order to perform the action you'll need to expend at least 2 strength points that will take you 5 hours to recover. And all that for 60 seconds of someone's "stream of consciousness". Start to fiddle with ranges and the costs balloon real fast. Anywhere between a half a km to 5 kms and you're looking at 6 points and 9 hours recovery time just for 60 seconds of information.

For all of 15 seconds of combined clairvoyance/audience up to the same range, your psion is looking at a natural strength of 9, a cost of 5, and a recovery period of 8 hours. Even with the help of various boosters, your psionic black ops team isn't going to be "checking in" on the players very often.

It was cost-benefit curves like that which convinced me that psionics was a "supplement" to existing skills, equipment, and plans rather than a "replacement" for the same.

Finally, my players once came up against another group they felt certain included psions so they took several commonplace precautions. One such precaution involved preparing multiple travel plans; they'd set up different ways to get to a destination and at the last moment choose among them by matching coins;. They also made many several other decisions by coin flips. The possibility of psionic surveillance simply forced them to plan more carefully.


Regards,
Bill

 

[Icosahedron]

Likewise, I haven't had a group interested in psionics until now, and that's why I'm suddenly coming up with problems.

I'm not too worried about the peeps figuring where the PCs are going, I'm more worried about them finding the PCs' hideout and storming the place with overwhelming force. It's what they would logically do, the PCs have to sleep somewhere, but if that happens, the PCs are as good as dead. I hate having to rig deus ex machina escape opportunities when the logical conclusion of events would be dead PCs.

Peeps is good - what names are used for other talents?

 

[Icosahedron]

I'm not too worried about the peeps figuring where the PCs are going, I'm more worried about them finding the PCs' hideout and storming the place with overwhelming force. It's what they would logically do, the PCs have to sleep somewhere, but if that happens, the PCs are as good as dead. I hate having to rig deus ex machina escape opportunities when the logical conclusion of events would be dead PCs.

I've been giving this matter some more thought.

Let's say a powerful clairvoyant (Level 9) is trying to find the PCs' hideout.

Conventional intel places the PCs in the city. The Peep waits until night since this is when the PCs are most likely to be in the hideout, asleep. He uses a captured possession to focus his talent onto the PCs, and uses Sense in order to confirm the intel (level 1 plus 3 points for Very Distant range (50km) to cover the city and environs) costing 4 points.

"They are in the city - I feel them."

The city centre, as the most logical venue within the 50km range, can be divided into 4 'Distant' (5km) quadrants, and the Peep can check one of them immediately. He has a 1 in 4 chance of finding them in that quadrant by using another 4 points. Otherwise he must wait to recover. So he has a 25% chance of narrowing the search down to Distant (5km) in the first hour.

He requires 3+8=12 hours to recover, so he can't do another search until the next night. Then he can search another 2 quadrants. He has a 75% chance of narrowing the search down to Distant within 24 hours of the start of the search, and 100% in 36 hours.

"They are in the Southeast quadrant."

Next, the Peep tries to narrow the search down to Very Long range (500m). There are 100 VL squares in his Distant range area (10x10). This is a game of Battleships, with the Peep trying to mix Sense with conventional intel to try to figure which 500m square the PCs are holed up in.

On a purely random basis, at two attempts per night, it should take an average of 50 nights, or 6/7 weeks for the Peep to pinpoint the PCs location to Very Long (a couple of city blocks) but with conventional intel helping out and logical weighting on certain areas, this might be significantly reduced.

"They are between Imperial Square and East 57th"

Once the location is down to VL, the next step would be to reduce the range to Medium (50m). This will effectively pinpoint the PCs to a single apartment block. Since this is another factor of 100, it should take the Peep another 50 nights, but I think a conventional door-to-door enquiry across a couple of city blocks would work faster than that.

"They're in the Bayview Apartments."

From here you're definitely on conventional systems - it's much quicker to check the guest book than to Sense every room.

So... On the basis of the above estimations, I'm figuring it should take perhaps 4 weeks or so to narrow the search down enough to find the PCs, most of which time will be narrowing the range down from Distant to Very Long.

Does that sound reasonable?

If so, that means the PCs should move every 3 weeks or so in order to evade discovery.

I'd appreciate comments on this scenario.

 

[Major B]

...level 1 plus 3 points for Very Distant range (50km) to cover the city and environs) costing 4 points.

...The city can be divided into 4 'Distant' (5km) quadrants, and the Peep can check one of them immediately. He has a 1 in 4 chance of finding them in that quadrant by using another 4 points. ...

Would the 3 point cost for very distant range be reduced to 2 points for distant range? This would reduce the cost of subsequent searches, guaranteeing that the peep could hit all four quadrants by the end of night 2 and reducing the time it would take to conduct subsequent (narrower) searches.

 

[Icosahedron]

Thanks for the response Major B.

I'm using LBB3 1st ed. It definitely says Distant and V Distant = 3 points. Was this changed in a later edition? I'll have to dig my floppy book out.

Does the scenario itself sound ok? Is this the way a clairvoyant search would be carried out? If so, it's just a matter of crunching the numbers.

Incidentally, the bit that says:

The city can be divided into 4 'Distant' (5km) quadrants

should read: The city centre, as the most logical venue within the 50km range, can be divided... (Now changed in original).

 

[Major B]

Don't bother checking Icos. I was asking a question, not sharpshooting. I've never really explored psionics other than as background material, which is why the thread sparked my interest.

As to the scenario you described, for me it sounds plausible but doesn't quite "feel" right. Again, without a firm knowledge of the rules all I can do is judge by "feel" for what its worth to you.

Going by that standard, given a psion with a focus item, it seems that he would be able to narrow or pinpoint his circular error over the course of several days rather than playing battleship. What I mean is, on the first day he could say "they're definitely in the city" and "probably closer to the city center than the outskirts." Next night he could (with a higher energy expenditure perhaps) narrow down to "They are in one of the downtown districts" with possibly some detail like "close to the shipping channel - I heard a ships horn faintly." Then over the course of more nights, more details would emerge that narrows down the search area (they're in a hotel room with light blue interior walls - near a grav bus station; I just glimpsed the bus lifting past the window) or alternatively the circular area would draw smaller over with continued effort if the divining didn't reveal any useful details about the group's hiding place.

 

[Icosahedron]

I think you're right on that. I'll have to think about it some. That means the PCs might have to move every week, maybe even a few days. Peeps seem to be a powerful adversary.

If the GM is handling the Peep, I could use concentric circles and get closer to the target that way, but if I had a scenario where the Peep is handled by a player searching for a NPC target, I'd need to figure a system that would let the character home in on the target without the player knowing where the final location will be.

I just need to figure a way to work that. Maybe something like the artillery targeting rules in Striker. This is just the sort of thought-provoking feedback I need, thanks.

I was rather hoping someone who has already figured this out could save me reinventing the wheel though...

 

[far-trader]

I'm using LBB3 1st ed. It definitely says Distant and V Distant = 3 points. Was this changed in a later edition? I'll have to dig my floppy book out.

Didn't see an answer but in case you haven't dug it out yet, no change, it's the same in second edition.

 

[rancke]

How do you play this one?
The PCs are being hunted by a team of black-ops psi adepts.
How do you handle the fact that clairvoyants can see where the PCs are and hear what they're planning? How can the PCs evade people with those powers?

If the PCs are aware of the problem, they can buy mind shields to prevent mind reading. The can also try to stick to shielded buildings. IMTU all government buildings are shielded, as are any premises used by any sizable company (not the small fry -- psionic shielding costs money). Many of the bigger hotels are likewise shielded for privacy.

Traveller psionics are quite limited in the number of times per day an adept can use his powers. Monitoring anyone 24/7 -- or just five minutes every hour -- is beyond the abilities of most psionic teams.


Hans

 

[far-trader]

Given the rarity and limited use of psionic Hans, wouldn't even minimal shielding be a wasted expense except in locations known to freely employ psionics?

I'm always mildly annoyed when PCs think "We all need psionic shield helmets." Even if they're full sectors away from any allowed psionic practices. As if you could even find a store with psionic shield helmets outside of certain limited areas. Like the Zho border and some small areas where psionics are practiced. It's not like every 1000th or 10,000th or even 100,000th person you run across in the Imperium is psionic and trying to read your mind.

Of course PCs being PCs (and players being justifiably paranoid) the odds do go up considerably :smirk: :devil:

 

[rancke]

Given the rarity and limited use of psionic Hans, wouldn't even minimal shielding be a wasted expense except in locations known to freely employ psionics?

How rare is psionics? And how much time does a Clairvoyant need to overhear a secret? With no legitimate outlet for the use of psionics, there are two groups of people who'll have a field day recruiting and (ab)using psionic adepts: Spies and criminals.

I'm always mildly annoyed when PCs think "We all need psionic shield helmets." Even if they're full sectors away from any allowed psionic practices.

"Allowed psionic practices" is not at all the same thing as "practiced psionics".

As if you could even find a store with psionic shield helmets outside of certain limited areas. Like the Zho border and some small areas where psionics are practiced.

A niche market, certainly, but IMO definitely not limited to regions close to where psionics are legal.

It's not like every 1000th or 10,000th or even 100,000th person you run across in the Imperium is psionic and trying to read your mind.

Depends. If you accept the Character generation rules[*], some 70% of the human population is able to train up psionic abilites of some degree of usefulness. With that kind of spread, every criminal gang would have a psionic squad. Remember, "When psionics are outlawed, only outlaws will have psionics".

[*] Which I don't. I assume people need to have 'psionic potential' before they even get to roll for psionic strength. It's just that all PCs have such potential. But that's not canon.​

Of course PCs being PCs (and players being justifiably paranoid) the odds do go up considerably :smirk: :devil:

In one adventure I ran, the PCs were asked to investigate the victim of a powerful brainwashing technique. As soon as they heard about the symptoms, they went out and bought psionic helmets. .


Hans