I remember hearing the term pre-net.
Mary Sues in Traveller
- Thread starter kafka47
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I remember hearing the term pre-net.
Keklas Rekobah
SOC-14 1K
Smarf the Marfunkle!
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
Yeah... it has been around since the mid-1970s, long before the internet (at least on Sol III).
I've seen it attributed to a series of fan-fic trek stories staring a Mary Sue, who bests the Enterprise crew several times. They date to about 1974.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
But it is an interesting coincidence that in Marc Miller's first hand drawn rough draft of the big map of the Spinward Marches (see link first post) he ran out of room and it reads Spinward Marc, especially when the term Marches in this context can also be Mark which is another spelling of, and homophone of, the name Marc.
Sure it's just all coincidence. Or is it...
Sure it's just all coincidence. Or is it...
Simon the Garfunkel!
Wil,
That's my understanding too, with the addition of romantic/sexual relationships between Mary Sue and the TOS crew.
I first heard of the term during a creative writing course I took during a WestPac(1). The instructor covered "Mary Sues" along with other topics like homages and what we now call "Easter eggs". He even had a few examples of each.
As Scrabble already suggested, people need to reacquaint themselves with the meaning of the term "Mary Sue" because most of the examples in this thread are not "Mary Sues" at all.
The best current example of a "Mary Sue" is Weber's laughable Honor Harrington.
Regards,
Bill
1 - For those of you who don't already know, the USN regularly provides "courses afloat" during long deployments taught by actual professors aboard ship. I took calculus, thermodynamics, foreign policy/poli-sci, and a writing course over two deployments. The calc course was for 6 credits.)
beowulf2044
SOC-12
And yet, David Webber sells books. We can laugh all we want.
Beowulf,
Popular does not always equate good. The aerosol cheese spray Cheezewhiz outsells real cheese, Cool Whip, essentially a petroleum byproduct, outsells real whipped cream, and ⌧ography outsells everything.
We can and do.
As a fat man, I can understand the thinking of the gourmand whether they be a gourmand of books, food, movies, or anything else. There is a seductive quality in consuming mass quantities of anything, but there is also a price.
Just before the warden through the switch, my old man told me If you're going to drink, drink the good stuff. In the end we all have a limited time alive, so it's best to drink, eat, read, watch, and listen to the good stuff.
Regards,
Bill
But not enough that the back catalog sells; Baen has taken to giving away everything but the last two as ebooks (in a variety of formats) in order to actually keep the current volumes selling.
I borrowed copies of the dead tree for the first five volumes; I feel ripped off, and not having gotten my money's worth... with no monetary investment!
On the other hand, Webber did do a great job as a game designer/editor. His work for Task Force was amongst their strongest lines. He was the lead for Starfire, once SVC moved on to SFB... and his SF III campaign system was what made the line earn a second edition. The Second Edition, Webber's own baby, was excellent; mixing both support for tactical-only players and campaign players. Likewise, early Third ed materials. When Webber left, however, the line started to suffer...
Yep! The board game about the War of the Roses, King Maker, has several events that send the holder of the Warden of the Northen Marches title to the northen border of England.
Tarzan!
We have dude who always got Lord Greystroke, while I favor having a boat and those Burgundians.
Sorry, am done now, back to the thread...
Hell yeah, another King Maker player.
We have dude who always got Lord Greystroke, while I favor having a boat and those Burgundians.
Sorry, am done now, back to the thread...
BlackBat242
SOC-14 1K
Its been 25 years since I last played Kingmaker... great fun (be ye a White or a Red rose?).
Border Reiver
SOC-14 1K
Bizarre to be talking about Mary-Sues in roleplaying games where essentially every PC is a Mary Sue.
beowulf2044
SOC-12
I remember a discussion of the phenomena that was later called "Munchkin' at a convention years ago. Another Ref and I agreed that we would alwyas bring pre-generated characters to our games, becuase the ones that some players tried to bring in were just plain ridiculous ("All your stats are 'C'? And just how many terms did it take to get all these skills at level 5?").
The Ref I was talking to related a story where a player was trying to get his own PC in. Part of the dialouge went like this:
Player- "And he's got Battledress, and a FGMP, and a Grav Belt. . ."
Ref- "What's his name?"
Player- "Name?" Uh... Joe."
The Ref I was talking to related a story where a player was trying to get his own PC in. Part of the dialouge went like this:
Player- "And he's got Battledress, and a FGMP, and a Grav Belt. . ."
Ref- "What's his name?"
Player- "Name?" Uh... Joe."
Two things.
One, BlackBat, depends on which Heir I got. Or can get Tarzan to off for me, 'sides, every time he got caught, my friend always got the dude again.) :devil:
As for Magnus the Player Character, as opposed to just Character, well, we take pride that everything we got was earned In Game. Good stats, (hell in Faerun superawesome stats especially for a Mage, though not so much when you account for all the Buff Archmages of Netheril, but most of them are dead
) rolled, Naval Career, rolled, Title, well came with Birth and rolls. Ref gave me the Blue Rose (the big deal is she is 400 tons, but I did roll a Yacht in Supp4 for Muster, see prayer does work. ), and me and Baron Saathuran did her up, though she is getting ported to T5 during annual maintenance. And my DM+1 when dealing with Vilani Bureaux (slowly teaching spellcheck Vilani) I got from Robject, so frankly, me the real person and Magnus share a love of what we got we fanarking earned, buddy.
Just my thoughts, but since it was on topic mostly, had to type them up for you all.
And if the Marquis Aramis takes me up on the offer, I might earn BattleDress-0 or even BattleDress-1! Of course then I have to ferry up to four of his guests on my deci, but totally worth it for that skill. Might have to do some jobs to cover the final expenses, but hey, we call that Adventuring where I am from.
One, BlackBat, depends on which Heir I got. Or can get Tarzan to off for me, 'sides, every time he got caught, my friend always got the dude again.) :devil:
As for Magnus the Player Character, as opposed to just Character, well, we take pride that everything we got was earned In Game. Good stats, (hell in Faerun superawesome stats especially for a Mage, though not so much when you account for all the Buff Archmages of Netheril, but most of them are dead
) rolled, Naval Career, rolled, Title, well came with Birth and rolls. Ref gave me the Blue Rose (the big deal is she is 400 tons, but I did roll a Yacht in Supp4 for Muster, see prayer does work. ), and me and Baron Saathuran did her up, though she is getting ported to T5 during annual maintenance. And my DM+1 when dealing with Vilani Bureaux (slowly teaching spellcheck Vilani) I got from Robject, so frankly, me the real person and Magnus share a love of what we got we fanarking earned, buddy.Just my thoughts, but since it was on topic mostly, had to type them up for you all.
And if the Marquis Aramis takes me up on the offer, I might earn BattleDress-0 or even BattleDress-1! Of course then I have to ferry up to four of his guests on my deci, but totally worth it for that skill. Might have to do some jobs to cover the final expenses, but hey, we call that Adventuring where I am from.
IMTU I simply wrote him off as, "one of the myriads of legends floating around in space". He might conceivably be true, but "might" is kind of the point.
So's the planet Rann. One of the Airmen who taught me Traveller back in the day had a huge statue of Adam Strange, Hero of Rann in the center of the capital city.
