Traveller and the language barrier

[gloriousbattle]

Traveller, of course, does not employ Farscape translator microbes or Star Trek universal translators. While these things are both pure applied phlebotinum, I think the idea of a universal language that everybody in 11,000 worlds can speak is only slightly less so, especially when one considers that the majority of sentients are probably only moderately educated and literate, in the future, even as today, and that in a pretty advanced society. Now combine the problem by extrapolating one world into 11,000+.

I am very much a science fantasy player, and so do not turn up my nose at either of the above, but I am curious if you think there is a realistic way of getting around this problem?

The Spacefarers Guide to Alien Races posited an interesting idea: Techspeak ("Teek", for short) is a simple binary language (so any two races can communicate with it, as long as they are capable of a simple on/off signal of some kind) and is not made to communicate esoteric cultural values, but rather simple concepts like "Don't shoot!", "We need help!", or "Which way to Altair Prime?", etc. It is thus not a language for diplomacy, philosophy or technical treatises, which must be handled on a race-by-race basis through a special translation corps.

This, was a fairly thoughtful way of handling it. Others?

 

[robject]

It's a permanent scenario: when you leave Startown, you may not be understood by the locals.

But in space, there's always Anglic and some variant of Trade Vilani -- well, in the Imperium, anyway.

 

[rancke]

Traveller canon implies the existence of many local languages. It's just something that is often ignored because it can be a pain to deal with if you like your adventures fast and smooth. Much the same reason as for various cinematic universal translators, babelfish, etc.

Galanglic itself, which is as near as you'll come to a universal language in the 3rd Imperium, has regional dialects. Among the equipment written up for MT there is a language translator. It's not a universal translator by any means. It requires language databases for both languages to function. But it'll work as long as the language crystals are available.

IMTU many worlds have their own languages. The countries of my (non-canon) Ruie has mutually comprehensible dialects that all descends from a reconstructed Germanic tongue spoken by the first settlers. Reginans all speak the Anglic of the dominant culture, but there are four different Vilani dialects derived from four groups of involuntary immigrants that were transported there from four different worlds during the Pacification Campaigns. Forboldn has a main language, Ashara, that I made up language tables for (with loan words from a second group of people; their language, Guguran, is still spoken in isolated backwaters, but I haven't actually made up tables for it).

But if the players (or the referee) don't want to bother with the complications, just ignore the whole mess.


Hans

 

[HG_B]

I think the idea of a universal language that everybody in 11,000 worlds can speak is only slightly less so,

Right, and cannon doesn't state that. It is the universal (within the 3I) trade/diplomatic language. The further you get from the star port on many worlds, the less the "standard" is spoken.

 

[aramis]

Right, and cannon doesn't state that. It is the universal (within the 3I) trade/diplomatic language. The further you get from the star port on many worlds, the less the "standard" is spoken.

Likewise, we have little real idea how much standardization near-universal literacy will in fact result in. If anything, the internet seems to be destroying standardization and encouraging many (IMO stupid) lax practices in written work, many of which are in fact pouring over into the realm of the spoken.

It may be that the high rates of literacy, after the initial shakeouts, may in fact result in stabilization of the language in a manner not dissimilar to written Chinese. We have no good evidence of spoken Chinese in 500 BC, but by many accounts, the ideographic written forms are still intelligible. (Even as the spoken forms have become quite distinctive.)

Or, as with the Chinese, spoken could become completely detached from written.

 

[HG_B]

Likewise, we have little real idea how much standardization near-universal literacy will in fact result in.

I just thought of one contemporary example of dialects & technology. The U.S.
Since the advent of broad mass media consumption, cinema, radio, TV, etc., the regional dialects have flattened. There are less and less areas of the U.S. where the spoken word is unintelligible to an "outsider". I've noticed this trend even over the short period of 40 years of travel, to and from the "Deep South"...

 

[E.D.Quibell]

IMOTU

The language of the Imperium, i.e. the space between the Stars, is Galanglic. So all your Nobels, Imperial forces, the SPA, the Imperial Buracracy, all the Mega Corporations, and anyone who has to deal and work in space will speak this as their primary "Work" language.

Along with "Space" main Imperial Systems; Subsector Capitals, Sector Capitals, Depots, etc are likley to speak Galanglic as their primary language as well, being more in the Imperial mainstream, although there are likely exceptions (Vland comes to mind).

If you want to make it off your dirt ball and into the subsector, your would have to speak passing Galanglic. What you speak on your own dirtball is up to you ...

It's likley that lots of places will be bi-lingual with Galanglic.

There will be a "standard", probably Core, Capital, or Emporor's Galanglic, that will be the basis of the teaching of the language throughout the Imperium. This is unlikley to have changed significantly through the history of the Imperium, although there will be some change. There will be significant local variation, which may end up with mutually incomprehesable dialects, however if you slow down and go back to "standard" you should be able to hold a conversation (much like English today).

Best Regards,

Ewan

 

[rancke]

There will be a "standard", probably Core, Capital, or Emporor's Galanglic, that will be the basis of the teaching of the language throughout the Imperium. This is unlikley to have changed significantly through the history of the Imperium, although there will be some change. There will be significant local variation, which may end up with mutually incomprehesable dialects, however if you slow down and go back to "standard" you should be able to hold a conversation (much like English today).

This is the article about Anglic found on the Traveller Wiki. It is very slightly edited from the original Library Data entry in MT:Imperial Encuclopedia, but the differences are insignificant.

"Anglic aka Galanglic (for Galactic Anglic) is the official language of the Third Imperium. A distant descendent of Terran English, Anglic was used as a general communication language between people among the terran forces - even though most of them had a different mother tongue, depending to their country of birth.

The first Imperium itself had several languages : it had been born out of a gathering of worlds which all had their own civilizations and languages. However, given the centralized structure of the Imperium, the Vlani language had imposed itself as a common language.

After the terran forces conquered the Imperium, Anglic became naturally the official language of the Rule of Man ( -2294 to -1776) and remained a common interstellar language for trade and commerce during the Long Night. Its widespread use on the original worlds of the Third Imperium made it the natural language when the Imperium was established.

On many worlds, Anglic is only a second language used for system traffic control, commercial operations, and interstellar communications. Indeed, according to the initial waves of settlements a world has known in its history, the local language(s) may as well be Vlani, a language from one of the many human civilizations which were incorporated in the first Imperium or one of the Terran languages.

Modern Anglic naturally includes words from various origins, notably many Vlani words. In addition the evolution of the language has made it completely different from the old terran English.

The Imperium has not been able to prevent the emergence of a wide variety of Anglic dialects. Interstellar communications, holocrystals, and recordings help to spread a uniform pronunciation of Anglic throughout the entire Imperium. Within the Imperium, any Anglic speaker can understand almost any other, but isolated communities on worlds with little contact with the interstellar trade lanes shift their speech patterns to form dialects. In addition, broad areas within the Imperium have established their own pronunciation patterns; accepted dialects include Rim (which includes Terra), Core (the central region of the Imperium), Riftian (the spinward frontiers), and Transform (the Antares region)."​

Hans

 

[gloriousbattle]

If anything, the internet seems to be destroying standardization and encouraging many (IMO stupid) lax practices in written work, many of which are in fact pouring over into the realm of the spoken.

LOL. Whacha talk bout man. Webspeak be teh r0x0rz. ROFL.

Seriously, though, it will be interesting to see how it shakes out. On the one hand, we have the greatest communications and knowledge retrieval device ever invented in virtually every home, and yet our language seems to be slipping farther into dialect and slang.

 

[gloriousbattle]

This is the article about Anglic found on the Traveller Wiki. It is very slightly edited from the original Library Data entry in MT:Imperial Encuclopedia, but the differences are insignificant.

<SNIP>

Hans

I agree with you and others on this, but there is no provision for it in the game, which seems strange (at least none in CT, MT, or, IIUC, TNE, I am not familiar with MGT). Even as unrealistic as D&D may be, there are still language skills for "Orc", "Elf", "Thieves' Cant" the alignment tongues, etc., bowing to the understanding that not everyone can speak "Common."

Traveller, with its plethora of skills, makes, AFAIK, no provision for languages at all, beyond Galanglic, with a slight nod to Vilani.

 

[rancke]

Traveller, with its plethora of skills, makes, AFAIK, no provision for languages at all, beyond Galanglic, with a slight nod to Vilani.

If you're talking about game rules, there is an MT skill called Linguistics. As for canonical languages:

Aekhu is both a language and a cultural region in the Vargr Extents. Approximately follows the Imperial border, including Gvurrdon, Tuglikki, and Provence.

Arrghoun is a now lost Vargr language. It was known widely in the Gvurrdon Sector during the -1300s, replaced by Gvegh and its related family of languages by the -900s.

Gvegh is a Vargr language and cultural region in the Vargr Extents. This region roughly encompasses the coreward-rimward line of sectors including Ghoekhnael, Knoellighz, Gvurrdon Sector, and the Spinward Marches.

Irilitok is a language and cultural region in the Vargr Extents.

Logaksu is a Vargr language and cultural region in the Vargr Extents. This is an irregular bubble around Lair about 20 to 30 parsecs in radius, plus adjacent areas not included in other groups.

Ovaghoun is a Vargr language and cultural region in the Vargr Extents, including the trailing part of the Provence, Windhorn, and Meshan Sectors.

For centuries, only the vast distances separating Droyne worlds from each other concealed the fact that Droyne worlds had a common language. That is not to say every Droyne spoke the same language; indeed, different Droyne communities spoke different languages, often very different languages. But all Droyne communities shared one common language — Oynprith, the language used in the coyn casting ceremony. Outsiders missed Oynprith simply because it was not used in public very often; it had a status as a ritual or ceremonial language, much like the status of Latin on Terra.

Sagamaal:The common tongue of the Sword Worlds and surrounds. Technically there are two languages called Sagamaal, Old Sagamaal - the original common tongue spoken by many of the Sword Worlds colonists as a common second tongue. Modern Sagamaal has become the lingua franca of the region, and over time it has picked up words from other Terran and even the Vilani tongues. Modern Sagamaal now has less than 40% of it's vocabulary in common with Old Sagamaal.

Suedzuk is a Vargr language and cultural region in the Vargr Extents covering Amdukan, Trenchans and trailing.

Te-Zlodh, or Te-Zapet , is the standard Darrian language spoken in the Darrian Confederation.

Trokh: Language spoken by nearly all Aslan...

Zdetl: Name given by the Zhodani for their language.​

These are the ones that have articles on Traveller Wiki. I'm pretty sure there are at least some canonical languages missing from the list.


Hans

 

[Plankowner]

IMTU there are three main languages.

Enish is spoken by one of the three main polities as well as the Spacers Guild, so it has become the default language of interstellar trade and diplomacy. Enish is a combination of English and Spanish with a lot of borrow words.

Bavaran is spoken in one of the other polities and is the primary language of technology and the sciences (Bavara is a germanic colony that has the highest TL). Bavaran is a daughter language of German.

Farisi is the third language and is spoken in the third Polity. It is a derivative of Farsi, but with a lot of borrow words. It is spoken on the majority of independent worlds.

Each world was settled by one of the original 3 (no lost colonies yet), so if you can speak the big three, you can speak to just about anyone.

I use the MGT system, so I give each PC and NPC 2+EDU Bonus in Language skills as part of their Pre-Enlistment homeworld skills.

I DO use language in my game and communicating with someone can be a challenge if you don't speak a common language very well. Since there was no Long Night in my setting, three languages is all there are; local variations are usually in pronunciation only and are no worst than variations in English within the US today.

I wanted my game to have different languages, but I felt that having hundreds would be too much, so I settled on three languages as a good compromise that allowed for some translation issues, but not have it be a big part of every adventure.

 

[Jame]

I've read in GURPS:Ground Forces that there is such a thing as Old High Vilani.

 

[aramis]

I just thought of one contemporary example of dialects & technology. The U.S.
Since the advent of broad mass media consumption, cinema, radio, TV, etc., the regional dialects have flattened. There are less and less areas of the U.S. where the spoken word is unintelligible to an "outsider". I've noticed this trend even over the short period of 40 years of travel, to and from the "Deep South"...

And yet the street slang is less stable and using wider ranges of borrowed and invented words. (Was an article on that in a 2007 education publication.)

 

[HG_B]

And yet the street slang is less stable and using wider ranges of borrowed and invented words. (Was an article on that in a 2007 education publication.)

Yes, but those same people can easily understand AND speak "standard American English". I can attest to that having worked in gang infested areas of South L.A.

That wasn't the case of ACTUAL dialect speaking people in the U.S. Apples to Oranges to say the least.

 

[flykiller]

imtu just about all places speak some version of galanglic. all the dialects have shifted, but languages and dialects usually shift in certain and predictable ways. merchants, travelling from world to world for many years, pick up on these typical variations on galanglic and ususally are able to communicate passably with most people. word meaning may change. for example a "deer" on porozlo is ten feet tall at the shoulder and sports nine inch upper-jaw canines, and if you ask for the "restroom" they may point you to the mortuary. but in general the words themselves are fairly constant.

 

[welsh]

With respect to the languages of major races, I make two assumptions:
1. HUmans can't speak non-human languages, and vice versa, because of physiological limitations. I can no more speak Vargr than I can bark convincingly at my dog, because my mouth is not properly equipped to make the sounds.
2. Universal translators do not exist, but hand computer apps are widely available for major languages, which use voice recognition and machine translation to translate one spoken language to another. These range in cost from free to Cr. 1000, depending on vocabulary, accuracy, and ability to handle dialects.

I assume Vilani is a dead language, much like Latin, but that (like Latin and Greek for stereotypical English public schoolboys) it is still taught and even used in noble circles. People with high SOC and/or high EDU may actually speak Vilani.

I assume Galanglic is the Imperial lingua franca, but as with English today, there are recognizable dialects and local slang, to the extent that we can easily tell a noble from Capital from a noble from the Marches by his patterns of speech, and we can easily tell a spacer from a noble from a local.

As far as local language and Galanglic go, in my view worlds are either insular or cosmopolitan (bearing in mind that these are not absolutes, but relative positions on a scale), based on trade volume, starport class, population, tech level, government, and law level. On insular worlds, Galanglic is likely to be spoken only at the starport; on cosmopolitan worlds, Galanglic will be spoken widely alongside the local language (as is the case with English in Europe today).

And of course on some worlds, Galanglic will be the official language, although the local dialect in some cases may be almost entirely unrecognizable -- again, with cosmopolitan worlds tending to have a more "standard" Galanglic than insular ones.

 

[whulorigan]

1. HUmans can't speak non-human languages, and vice versa, because of physiological limitations. I can no more speak Vargr than I can bark convincingly at my dog, because my mouth is not properly equipped to make the sounds.

Agree 100% (although some form of "pidgin" language might have arisen between the two species in question, in certain specific cases). Although in some cases it may be possible for a human to understand an alien language if he is trained, (even if he can't physically speak it), and visa versa. But that would be on a case-by-case basis, and might also depend on the hearing-ranges and auditory discrimination of the species in question.

I assume Vilani is a dead language, much like Latin, but that (like Latin and Greek for stereotypical English public schoolboys) it is still taught and even used in noble circles. People with high SOC and/or high EDU may actually speak Vilani.

In the OTU I believe Vilani is still an extant language in the Vilani Cultural Region, although Old High Vilani is the equivalent dead-language comparable to the Latin that you mentioned above. Of course, IYTU, YMMV.

I assume Galanglic is the Imperial lingua franca, but as with English today, there are recognizable dialects and local slang, to the extent that we can easily tell a noble from Capital from a noble from the Marches by his patterns of speech, and we can easily tell a spacer from a noble from a local.

In the OTU there are four major regional dialects of Galanglic:

1) Core (Imperial Core / Sylea)
2) Rim (Solomani Rim environs)
3) Transform (Antares region)
4) Riftian ("Behind the Claw")
​

And RoM Anglic would be quite archaic compared to "modern" Galanglic as well.

Again, YMMV for YTU.

 

[Spinward Scout]

Interesting that this six year old thread was resurrected today.

From a news article this morning:

New Real-Time In-Ear Device Translator By Waverly Labs To Be Released Soon

Language barrier will no longer be a problem around the world as an in-ear device will be the answer to this. The device can translate foreign language to the wearer's native language and it works real time.

 

[BlackBat242]

Here is a 9-year-old thread on the subject: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=10981&highlight=language


And one from almost 2 years ago: http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=33244&highlight=language


These two CT articles cover uses of "Language":

Languages in Traveller by Terry Mcinnes - Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society #16 (1983) and Best of JTAS #4.

Does anyone here speak Aslan Language skills in Traveller® gaming by Joseph Benedetto Jr. - Dragon Magazine #91 (November 1984)