[Traveller's Journal] The Pistol and the Carbine

[robject]

"What-we-have heah -- is ah failyah -- to communicate."

GunMaker is clearly not holding anyone's hand. While the math is simple, the system is complex, and it takes some effort to see how the descriptors interact. Additionally, the low-end of the tech scale is not terribly accurate or useful -- it's hard to create low TL firearms. Obviously the system is geared towards the middle tech levels; TL5 and below tend to be under-powered, while TL17 and above tend to be under-represented.

GunMaker doesn't tell you how to design the Classic Traveller guns. It is just one big toolkit. So how do we get results that resemble CT? Results that are usable?

The big panic buttons are the Pistol and the Carbine. If you just pick "Pistol" or "Carbine", you get underpowered weapons. So the system is not holding our hands... much like the way Fire, Fusion, and Steel works, in fact, except for three things:

(1) there's less that can go wrong
(2) it tends to be clearer to divine what went wrong
(3) simpler math makes it easier to backtrack when you don't get what you want (corollary to #2)


So the newbie will build the plain-jane Pistol-5, and get a relatively useless firearm. Or worse, build a Body Pistol, which is completely useless. GunMaker is not self-promoting.

So what are our alternatives?

1. Build the Standard Pistol. "Standard" refers to manufacture and general use. This produces a TL6 pistol which can overcome very light armor, and can quickly incapacitate an unarmed person.

2. Build the Standard Heavy Pistol. For 330 grams more, you get a TL6 pistol that inflicts 3D damage.


Now, the system is clearly not holding anyone's hand. While the math is simple, the system is complex, and takes some time to see how the descriptors interact. Additionally, the low-end of the tech scale is not terribly accurate or useful -- it's hard to create low TL firearms. Obviously the system is geared towards the middle tech levels, to the detriment of TL5 and lower.

I believe a statement along those lines would be sufficient to forewarn users.

 

[robject]

Of course, the "actual" solution would be to supply a half-page list of usable guns, using the list in CT Book 1 as a guideline.

 

[mike wightman]

My group came up with a way to use the makers which stunned me, and at a stroke made it much more of a cutting edge sci-fi game.

They asked where the makers are on the ship - thinking that they are some sort of nano-fabrication 3d printer sort of thing.

So I printed out gun maker and said here is your basic body pistol from the rules (T4), now go and use the maker to modify it. On board your ship you have a TL12 maker that can modify the pistol in any way you can come up with.

 

[Vladika]

"What-we-have heah -- is ah failyah -- to communicate."



...Obviously the system is geared towards the middle tech levels, to the detriment of TL5 and lower...

It might be helpful to remember that lower tech level pistols WERE historically low power and low penetration. A lot of soft lead and black powder AND, for the most part, substandard calibers. Add short barrels and you get low mussel velocities in addition to the other detriments.

For T5 mid-range tech level is about right.

Even at TL5 Earth the short barrel .38 was ubiquitous.

 

[HG_B]

Even at TL5 Earth the short barrel .38 was ubiquitous.

Have you ever, IRL, seen the wounds from one of those using hollow points at short range?

 

[whulorigan]

My group came up with a way to use the makers which stunned me, and at a stroke made it much more of a cutting edge sci-fi game.

They asked where the makers are on the ship - thinking that they are some sort of nano-fabrication 3d printer sort of thing.

So I printed out gun maker and said here is your basic body pistol from the rules (T4), now go and use the maker to modify it. On board your ship you have a TL12 maker that can modify the pistol in any way you can come up with.

I kinda like that idea. But now you need a maker to make the maker.

 

[Vladika]

Have you ever, IRL, seen the wounds from one of those using hollow points at short range?

Yes. Ex business partner was the country coroner and jail physician. Historically though hollow points weren't used and "dum dum" rounds were bared by the Geneva convention.

Certainly they could be used but I was confining the response to the apparent lower TL weakness the OP observes in T5. I haven't bothered to look at that section as I'm happy with the "off the shelf" firearms traditionally used in CT.

A .38 hollow-point vs .44 magnum hollow-point would still be a huge difference.

 

[David Johansen]

Ammo options would be nice.

Still, go build an ultimate snub recoiless grenade launcher pistol if you miss the old snub pistol. Bullet - 4, Frag - 2

 

[HG_B]

Yes. Ex business partner was the country coroner and jail physician. Historically though hollow points weren't used and "dum dum" rounds were bared by the Geneva convention.

Um, .38 revolvers aren't mil weapons. I'm talking civvie use. Like what Trav PC's would be carrying.

 

[esampson]

Have you ever, IRL, seen the wounds from one of those using hollow points at short range?

I would have to speculate that it is very unlikely that you've seen IRL the wounds that a TL-5 .38 pistol would inflict given that we live in TL-8.

 

[Vladika]

I would have to speculate that it is very unlikely that you've seen IRL the wounds that a TL-5 .38 pistol would inflict given that we live in TL-8.

You have any idea how common a .38 standard still is? lol Most street thugs aren't using 10mm Glocks. A LOT of .22, .32 and .38 still out there

Just an observation but it seems you and HG_B have a bit of animosity going?

 

[esampson]

You have any idea how common a .38 standard still is? lol Most street thugs aren't using 10mm Glocks. A LOT of .22, .32 and .38 still out there

Just an observation but it seems you and HG_B have a bit of animosity going?

No. At least I don't feel any animosity towards him. It is only coincidence that I'm quote-replying to him in another thread.

This one is actually my fault as I thought TL-5 was a bit further back in history than it was. I was thinking at the time that TL-5 was more likely in the Flintlock era (around TL-3) and so was operating under the assumption that the gun was far less powerful than it was, IRL.

 

[robject]

I was thinking at the time that TL-5 was more likely in the Flintlock era (around TL-3) and so was operating under the assumption that the gun was far less powerful than it was, IRL.

TL3 is almost easier to model with GunMaker than TL5 -- sort of. At that tech level, options are few and far between, but some of them are reasonable.

For example, pop in "Experimental" "Rifle" in my online GunMaker tool, and it will recognize the Flintlock-3. And a "Prototype Shotgun" is rendered as a Musket. And I know I have a setting for the Arquebus, but offhand I don't know... ah, the Experimental Heavy Shotgun.