Inside a Gas Giant

[Blue Ghost]

I've always been fascinated by Jovian bodies since Sagan speculated about life forms living in a gas giant's atmosphere.

The history channel has their Stargazer series where they take snippits of their documentaries, and post them on their YouTube channel.

Here's one that explains what it's like inside a Gas Giant; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YVb0EmpgcU

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I've always been fascinated by Jovian bodies since Sagan speculated about life forms living in a gas giant's atmosphere.

The history channel has their Stargazer series where they take snippits of their documentaries, and post them on their YouTube channel.

Here's one that explains what it's like inside a Gas Giant; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YVb0EmpgcU

I think that's very interesting too. There isn't a great body of scientific or speculative literate on what Jovionoids might look like...

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Well, the video doesn't discuss Sagan's life forms. It talks about the environment inside the atmosphere.

 

[Condottiere]

Apparently, metallic hydrogen is a superfuel, so during the course of mining operations, you'll come across a race of giant felinoid smurfs.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Well, the video doesn't discuss Sagan's life forms. It talks about the environment inside the atmosphere.

Environment and life are so intricately related that to speak of one almost necessitates the other.

Sagan and several other period sources discuss what Jovionoid life might be like.

I find it very interesting. Traveller has several Jovionoid species.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

Apparently, metallic hydrogen is a superfuel, so during the course of mining operations, you'll come across a race of giant felinoid smurfs.

Metallic hydrogen (M-hyd?) is probably some sort of Holy Grail for Jump Drive research, considering that it's about ten times as dense as cryonically liquefied hydrogen. But I can imagine that the problems of creating, storing and releasing it are all beyond the current state of Imperial technology.

Not to mention the safety issues involved. Grav-triggered M-hyd bomb, anyone?

 

[kilemall]

I am figuring the capacitor tech from HG is metallic hydrogen batteries, hence the inability to improve on it AND the explodey part.

 

[mike wightman]

Metallic hydrogen (M-hyd?) is probably some sort of Holy Grail for Jump Drive research, considering that it's about ten times as dense as cryonically liquefied hydrogen. But I can imagine that the problems of creating, storing and releasing it are all beyond the current state of Imperial technology.

Not to mention the safety issues involved. Grav-triggered M-hyd bomb, anyone?

If they can use grav focussing technology to make lasers work they can use the same extreme artificial gravity to make metallic hydrogen.

 

[Blue Ghost]

If they can use grav focussing technology to make lasers work they can use the same extreme artificial gravity to make metallic hydrogen.

But that takes energy, and specifically energy from a power plant, unless I misunderstand grav tech in Traveller. Which means you would need to have your PP perpetually on to maintain such a battery ---> just from an engineering standpoint that would have an inherent inefficiency, and couldn't be sustained.

 

[G. Kashkanun Anderson]

But that takes energy, and specifically energy from a power plant, unless I misunderstand grav tech in Traveller. Which means you would need to have your PP perpetually on to maintain such a battery ---> just from an engineering standpoint that would have an inherent inefficiency, and couldn't be sustained.

Yeah, my take on M-hyd is that making it is the easy part; storing it is another matter entirely. And the consequences of storage failure in this case are not ... trivial.

That's why I like kilemall's concept of M-hyd capacitors. It shows that Traveller tech understands how to use and store M-hyd in relatively limited quantities, but it has not yet figured out how to scale it safely.

That's not to say that there couldn't be, at some isolated naval lab floating around in a Kuiper Belt or Oort Cloud somewhere, a couple of experimental J-6 cruisers that fight a lot like battle riders ... right up to their first critical fuel hit.

 

[Blue Ghost]

It would make for an interesting High Guard or Snapshot scenario.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Some cool pics of inside a gas giant's atmosphere;

http://en.spaceengine.org/_fr/1/7540062.jpg

https://agaudi.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/03-jupiters-red-spot.jpg

http://www.visionair.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/afdaling-galileo.jpg

Putting a Jovian body into perspective (cool size comparative pic);

http://thiswestcoastmommy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/How-Big-is-Jupiter.jpg

 

[Lycanorukke]

Some cool pics of inside a gas giant's atmosphere;

The pics match up with this article from Freelance Traveller.

******
the ship will be sandwiched in a layer of “clear air”, with exotic-colored cloud decks tens to hundreds of km above and below dancing with constant lightning displays and writhing with ever-changing tornado funnels above and “thunderhead” upwellings below; the ship itself will stream a brilliant blue corona of St Elmo’s Fire, attracting lightning bolts and other electrostatic displays; sheets of rain, salvoes of hailstones, and/or flurries of snow (water, ammonia, or whatever chemical impurities condense or freeze at the ambient temperature and pressure) splattering on the hull surface.
*****

Given the evidence that the old "Skim for Free Fuel" isn't quite as safe or easy as the books make out (apart from travel times), would a passenger ship be allowed to skim in the first place?

I don't think Joe Noble would be very pleased to be on an ship flying into a cyclone and shaken around like a bean in a tin can, even if the inertial compensators could keep up. And it would definetly add to your insurance premiums.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I think it was Aramis or someone else here who stated that gas giant refuelling has to be done parabolically .. I forget the reason, but assume that's true. You're ship is sailing through some violent Jovian atmosphere with all the effects you cited, and in addition, is doing so without the benefit of thrust for controlled flight. o:

That's got to be one wild E-ticket ride.

The way all my previous groups played it was that you simply flew in there, opened up the scoops, let the engineering machinery do its thing, then rocket out of there with a full tank, possibly risking a misjump.

But it's like the more we discover the actual process one wonders who'd be nutty enough to do it ... pirates? Should we start another pirate thread, but with an emphasis on gas giant refuelling?

 

[aramis]

I think it was Aramis or someone else here who stated that gas giant refuelling has to be done parabolically .. I forget the reason, but assume that's true. You're ship is sailing through some violent Jovian atmosphere with all the effects you cited, and in addition, is doing so without the benefit of thrust for controlled flight. o:

That's got to be one wild E-ticket ride.

The way all my previous groups played it was that you simply flew in there, opened up the scoops, let the engineering machinery do its thing, then rocket out of there with a full tank, possibly risking a misjump.

But it's like the more we discover the actual process one wonders who'd be nutty enough to do it ... pirates? Should we start another pirate thread, but with an emphasis on gas giant refuelling?

It's not without thrust - it's just that, in order to get deep enough to get ram pressure sufficient for the volumes states, you're down low enough that 1G isn't sufficient. At the cloud tops, Jupiter's already 2.58G... Saturn's 1.08G at cloud tops.

For a freighter, you're already doing escape velocity or you're not getting away.

And, at jupiter, a warship might escape, but even on a parabola, you've got issues.

A 1G freighter CAN refuel on nearly pure protium and deuterium by ram pressure in the very upper reaches...but it's spending its thrust to maintain escape speed the entire time.

A 6G fuel shuttle could lower more slowly on a non parabolic course...
but it's got to be just as careful, as it's got to generate sufficient density to liquify and pump the hydrogen, then sort out the carbon compounds.

A parabolic dip into the upper atmosphere gets purer hydrogen. And all the sources in the game specify hydrogen fuel.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Was it written up in T20 or something? Because I don't recall that from the basic rules.

*EDIT*
That is to say I recall the hydrogen and gas giant refuelling, but not the mechanics of fling through a gas giant to refuel, other than a ship could fly into a gas giant's atmosphere. I'll have to read the T5 rules again.

 

[whulorigan]

It's not without thrust - it's just that, in order to get deep enough to get ram pressure sufficient for the volumes states, you're down low enough that 1G isn't sufficient. At the cloud tops, Jupiter's already 2.58G... Saturn's 1.08G at cloud tops.

Of course, depending on which ruleset you are using (and/or what technological presuppositions you are using for your game), this can be gotten around by making sure that your vessels (at least above a certain TL) are equipped with CG-Lifters in addition to their Maneuver Drives. CG Lifters first become available at TL9 generally, so it is not unreasonable to believe that ships constructed at TL12 or higher (for example) might have them installed as a standard fitting.

 

[aramis]

Of course, depending on which ruleset you are using (and/or what technological presuppositions you are using for your game), this can be gotten around by making sure that your vessels (at least above a certain TL) are equipped with CG-Lifters in addition to their Maneuver Drives. CG Lifters first become available at TL9 generally, so it is not unreasonable to believe that ships constructed at TL12 or higher (for example) might have them installed as a standard fitting.

CG lifters don't exist in the editions I play.

 

[savage]

There is a race that lives in the gas giants.

 

[whulorigan]

There is a race that lives in the gas giants.

Oh, those are just tall travellers' tales told by bored spacers pullin' your leg . . .