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high TL modular spaces and gimbal seats

BwapTED

SOC-13
I like tailsitters/vertically stacked decks.

A lot of existing deck plans are bellylanders/horizontally stacked vessels.

But it occurs to me that the engineering difficulties involved in putting all the furniture on gimbals are probably nothing much to a high TL civilization, so maybe those belly-landers have seats, couches, etc that can be placed in line with thrust (in case the gravitic systems fail).

Thoughts?
 
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If you are sitting in an acceleration couch and the artificial gravity and acceleration compensation fails your seat immediately becomes a couch you are reclining/lying in/on.

That's the best position to be in to withstand the sudden engine defined 'gravity'.

If you want some good tail sitter deck plans hunt down the old Star Frontiers ships, most of them are tail sitters and there are some good designs.
 
I think part of the problem with tail sitter deckplans is that its simply easier for someone to make a 2 or 3 deck belly sitter design that a 7 or 8 deck tail sitter of the same size, and the customers, in general prefer the big, lavish belly sitter decks that are easy to read and play on to smaller, less visually impressive tail sitter decks, that add extra bookkeeping for keeping track of who is on what level in a fight.


on topic, I think the engineering requirements of making everything rotate are not insurmountable, but that its needlessly complex compared to other solutions (for example, having the ships software cut the M drive acceleration if the grav plates fail).

Also, designing the rooms so that they can rotate 90 degrees puts major limits on what you can place where, in terms of deconflicting the placing of furniture so that it can transition smoothly, and without power (since we are talking about a situation where major system has just failed, its not unreasonable to assume that several other systems might be offline as well, so no guarantee of room power to shift things for you, it would all need to be "gravity" driven), ship designers may just think its too much hassle for a limited payoff, and take other options. For example, always placing the beds in a stateroom against the aft wall, so that if power fails while the occupant is asleep, he only "falls" a foot or two, and designing lockers to hold closed while suspended face down. obviously anything not strapped in place is going to become a projectile, but thats a matter of discipline and housekeeping by the crew, so all designers can do is provide enough storage space in convenient locations that most items are secured while still being easy to access, and recommend certain standard operating procedures (like having the pilot be strapped into his seat at all times, so a gravity shift doesn't throw him away form the controls).

another factor is "total loss of gravity" isn't the only possible failure mode for the ships gravity. a software glitchy or faulty sensor might cause the system to, for example, shift perceived gravity 45* to the right, or onto the ceiling, or straight "forward" towards the direction of travel. all these would need to be factored into the design as well.


edit: here and here are some videos talking about the real life work done to train military vehicles crews to deal with vehicle roll-overs, which give you some idea of what a gravity shift or failure might be like. They were filmed at Camp Bastion, Afghanistan, and I've used that very machine for RODET training. they stick some foam shapes into the back of it to represent loose items (backpacks, unsecured rifles, etc), and they go everywhere, with pretty much everyone in the back getting hit at least once in the face by something.
 
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I can see acceleration seats being permanently set, and not requiring gimbals like in Space Angel.


But I expect staterooms and freshers are going to require 'flexibility' if they re going to be belly landers.


Alternatively the tailsitters could be permanently oriented that way and turn on AG when the engines are off.
 
The invention of gravitational based propulsion probably made it an option, rather than a requirement.

Outside allowing repetitive deckplans, the other advantage would be security, allowing decks to be isolated.
 
The other advantage is that you don't need to use as much power (however much it takes, aligning internal artificial gravity with the primary thrust axis reduces the needed effort by 1G's worth). At 1G, you don't even need to turn it on, except to prevent "seasickness" for minor course corrections.
 
I can see acceleration seats being permanently set, and not requiring gimbals like in Space Angel.

But I expect staterooms and freshers are going to require 'flexibility' if they re going to be belly landers.

Alternatively the tailsitters could be permanently oriented that way and turn on AG when the engines are off.

What he said.

When AG is available, it alters everything (sic.). What's the primary risk to crew and passengers if the compensators fail? If it's being squished while the vessel is accelerating then the couches personnel ride in while underway should be aligned as for a tailsitter. If there's so-many fail-safes built in that the grav goes down only with the primary power plant and M-drive, then it's not an issue. I wouldn't want to rely on that being the case in a military vessel though.
 
What he said.

When AG is available, it alters everything (sic.). What's the primary risk to crew and passengers if the compensators fail? If it's being squished while the vessel is accelerating then the couches personnel ride in while underway should be aligned as for a tailsitter. If there's so-many fail-safes built in that the grav goes down only with the primary power plant and M-drive, then it's not an issue. I wouldn't want to rely on that being the case in a military vessel though.

It might be military vessels are very often designed as tailsitters, as with the Broadsword and the Azhanti High Lightning.
 
But it occurs to me that the engineering difficulties involved in putting all the furniture on gimbals are probably nothing much to a high TL civilization, so maybe those belly-landers have seats, couches, etc that can be placed in line with thrust (in case the gravitic systems fail).

Gimbals are hardly a technology issue as much as they are simply a design problem to deal with the excessive space and mechanics of it all.

In "T-shirt Traveller", the gravitic compensators "just work", living on the continual feed of power from the reliable Fusion generators that produce megawatts of heat free power running off of a few gallons of distilled water for weeks on end.
 
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