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Twilight 2000 4E nuclear targets map

McPerth

McPerth

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I’ve been lately introduced to Twilight 2000 4E, and, among other source material, there is this Nuclear Targets Map (on google maps).

Frankly, I find it quite wrong and breaking with 1E and 2E (the ones I knew), where most nuclear strikes were to military significant targets…

Me being from Barcelona, I will only comment the Spanish target map:

1737397100487.png

Nuclear strikes on it:

  • Spanish/US joint bases of Rota , Moron de la Frontera and Torrejon de Ardoz: sure to be bombed
  • Zaragoza (an I guess the Spanish AFB of Cuatro vientos): again a logical choice, both as air base and administrative center.
  • Madrid (Capital city): again al logical choice, both as capital and communications hub
  • Bilbao: a heavy industry hub, also logical target
  • Valencia and Barcelona: population hubs, but limited military significance.

Now, more important, targets lacking in this map:

  • Spanish naval bases of Ferrol (North West, near La Coruña) and Cartagena (South East, near Murcia): those would be sure targets, as San Javier (AFB near Murcia too)
  • Tarragona: already in the 90’s it was a chemical industrial and oil refining hub. IMHO quite higher in the military targets list than Barcelona or Valencia. It also had two nuclear power plants near.
  • AFB Son San Joan (Mallorca)
  • And last, but not the least: someone really believes Gibraltar would have been spared (in 1E module Mediterranean Cruise it was clear it was not)?

What do you think about the map? Do you see it eaqually flawled on your countries?
 
McPerth said:
I’ve been lately introduced to Twilight 2000 4E, and, among other source material, there is this Nuclear Targets Map (on google maps).

Frankly, I find it quite wrong and breaking with 1E and 2E (the ones I knew), where most nuclear strikes were to military significant targets…

Me being from Barcelona, I will only comment the Spanish target map:

View attachment 5829

Nuclear strikes on it:

  • Spanish/US joint bases of Rota , Moron de la Frontera and Torrejon de Ardoz: sure to be bombed
  • Zaragoza (an I guess the Spanish AFB of Cuatro vientos): again a logical choice, both as air base and administrative center.
  • Madrid (Capital city): again al logical choice, both as capital and communications hub
  • Bilbao: a heavy industry hub, also logical target
  • Valencia and Barcelona: population hubs, but limited military significance.

Now, more important, targets lacking in this map:

  • Spanish naval bases of Ferrol (North West, near La Coruña) and Cartagena (South East, near Murcia): those would be sure targets, as San Javier (AFB near Murcia too)
  • Tarragona: already in the 90’s it was a chemical industrial and oil refining hub. IMHO quite higher in the military targets list than Barcelona or Valencia. It also had two nuclear power plants near.
  • AFB Son San Joan (Mallorca)
  • And last, but not the least: someone really believes Gibraltar would have been spared (in 1E module Mediterranean Cruise it was clear it was not)?

What do you think about the map? Do you see it eaqually flawled on your countries?
Click to expand...
McPerth -
- #1 - I still have stellar memories of my 6 years working out of Rota! Sadly, I only made it to Barcelona a couple of times. . .

- #2 - The only area I would dispute is Gibraltar. That being more of a "nuke Gibraltar you turn the Med into a lake for EVERYONE". Given the Russian need for warm weather ports, keeping the straits open is more valuable IMHO.
 
That map seemed ok for California. The So Cal part looked like most of maps I've seen of the area (mostly hitting the oil refineries that we have here).
 
whartung said:
That map seemed ok for California. The So Cal part looked like most of maps I've seen of the area (mostly hitting the oil refineries that we have here).
Click to expand...
Back when I ran TW2k a long time ago I would add Downey CA just for fun. I do not think anyone ever noticed nor asked why it was a target. Hahahahaha
 
Depends on who's doing the nuking, and if there is a valid reason.

Gibraltar lacks the strategic rationale it used to have, fifty years ago.

And if it's the Russians, for all intents and purposes, they no longer have Black or Baltic Sea fleets, and their capability, or need to pass through the Straits, no longer exist.
 
Condottiere said:
And if it's the Russians, for all intents and purposes, they no longer have Black or Baltic Sea fleets, and their capability, or need to pass through the Straits, no longer exist.
Click to expand...

Do you talk about present or about 1996-7, when the Twilight War bombings are suposed to be?

ITTR then at least, Gibraltar had some ship repair capacity, and wasalso an air base...

And again, Mediterran Cuise specifies it was bombed, in T2K1E
 
I'm pretty sure mid Nineties, the Russians had severe problems in maintaining their navy.

It's not that the chickens have come home to roost, batch obsolescence was happening back then.
 
Condottiere said:
Depends on who's doing the nuking, and if there is a valid reason.

Gibraltar lacks the strategic rationale it used to have, fifty years ago.

And if it's the Russians, for all intents and purposes, they no longer have Black or Baltic Sea fleets, and their capability, or need to pass through the Straits, no longer exist.
Click to expand...
I'm less discussing the strategic facilities and more the "let's not make the whole straits a high-rad zone if we don't need to" idea.
 
infojunky said:
Nope, they completely missed Loomore.... And 29 Palms... Major Navy and Marine airbases...
Click to expand...
And Downey, don't forget Downey. :LOL:

All jokes aside, if we are talking pre-1999, I am kind of shocked the El Toro Marine Base and the Camp Penelton Marine Base were not tagged as targets either.
 
Last edited:
infojunky said:
And 29 Palms...
Click to expand...
29 Palms is a training base. In the desert (over a 1000 square miles). Targeting it or Ft. Irwin probably really isn't that interesting. Hitting anything of actual value out there is as much dumb luck as anything, troops could be deployed on maneuvers the day the bombs hit, primary casualty being a gas station and mess hall.
 
casquilho said:
And Downey, don't forget Downey. :LOL:

All jokes aside, if we are talking pre-1999, I am kind of shocked the El Toro Marine Base and the Camp Penelton Marine Base were not tagged as targets either.
Click to expand...
Little need... the transport bases on the coast are all targeted, and MCAS ET is going to be in major fallout from both the LA area and San Diego area...
 
aramis said:
Little need... the transport bases on the coast are all targeted, and MCAS ET is going to be in major fallout from both the LA area and San Diego area...
Click to expand...
Not on the map I looked at. Neither Long Beach nor San Pedro are shown as a target. The largest deep port on the west coast and it is ignored? Using 1980 Soviet level weapons? And you think both are going to be just ignored? Hum, Ok if you say so.
 
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