2300AD is Back!

[MongooseMatt]

The all new 2300AD, written by Colin Dunn for the Traveller system, is about to start shipping and will start appearing in stores next week.

2300AD games range from interstellar exploration and interstellar war, down to the gritty streets and the mega-cities of the human Core. This is a game about people, and their rise to the stars. Aliens are a part of the 2300AD milieu, but the focus of the game is on Humans. 2300AD strives to obey the laws of the universe as we know them. The stutterwarp drive, the technology that allows humanity to travel faster than light, is the sole departure from this. Some of the other technologies bend the laws a little, but that’s from the standpoint of the early 21st century. Three hundred years in the future is a long time. There are no blasters or laser swords in 2300AD, no magic anti-gravity or artificial gravity – just guns and helicopters, spin habitats and spaceplanes.

You can find more details at;

UK: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpgs/traveller/2300ad/2300ad-core-rulebook.html
US: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/us/rpgs/traveller/2300ad/2300ad-core-rulebook.html

You can also grab the PDF at Drivethru right now at;

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/100670/2300ad

Finally, if you do not have a copy of the Traveller core rules, you can snatch one in a bundle with 2300AD for just $5 more at Drivethru;

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/100671/2300AD-&-Traveller-[BUNDLE]

 

[Jame]

This is way cool. I will have to get a copy.

 

[Peter Schutze]

so whats the general opinion on this new version of 2300 ?

 

[Putraack]

I don't have it yet, but there are some positive and negative reviews on Driverthrurpg.com, and two long, positive ones on rpg.net.

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

I've only had my copy for a short while and haven't been able to fully digest everything yet, but overall I kind of like it. Though, I do understand some of the complaints that I've read.

In general the book only briefly touches on the "Twilight War", leaving some of the details of it kind of vague.

With respect to character creation it appears to add some additional stuff to the base Mongoose format to reflect specifics of the original 2300AD method, such as adjusting some characteristics according to body type home world gravity, and basing certain base skills on whether the character is from a core or frontier planet, which I like alot.

Additionally, there is some focus & motivation stuff that I believe is based on old 2300AD stuff as well.

There is also some stuff on Cybernetics & DNA Modifications that I haven't had a chance to get too far into yet.

The vehicle and starship design stuff appears to be based on base Mongoose stuff, with some adjustments. I'm just starting to mess around with the starship stuff right now, but it looks reasonable so far. It is a bit of a hassle to have to refer back to the Mongoose Traveller Core book, or High Guard to get some info, but as I understand it, that's the price to be paid for using Traveller as the Core for other games, and I guess its probably not that much different than systems like GURPS, etc.

A couple things I haven't been able to figure out yet though involve how Stutterwarp and Lasers in 2300AD are treated as ooposed to how similar stuff is treated in Traveller.

As I understand it, in Traveller Lasers are assumed to be "gravitically focused", but as I understand it there are no gravitics in 2300AD, so it seems to me that Lasers in 2300AD should be treated differently than in Traveller, but I haven't been able to see if this is addressed in the 2300AD book yet.

Similarly, if I am understanding correctly, Stutterwarp is a "pseudo-velocity" type movement while in Traveller, movement is based on Newtonian motions and accelerations. However, since Stutterwarps don't work well in a gravity well, that some vessels (especially landers and the like) may have thrust engines rated by how fast they can accelerate a craft.

So far I haven't been able to find how movement and combat between vessels with these two different type drives may be handled, though.

Also, similar to the base Traveller book, reference is made in the design rules to selecting a configuration type, but its not fully clear what is meant by each type. For instance should a vessel like the Kennedy class cruiser (or for that matter several other types of vessels in the game) with spinning habitats be considered as "distributed" type hulls because of their arms or not?

Finally with respect to the artwork, overall I think it looks fine. With specific reference to drawings of the different species, it seems that there has always been some variation in how the species have been shown, so it doesn't bother me that the images here might be a bit different than shown elsewhere.

In general, in the PDF everything is more or less in B&W, with some red shown in the deck plans for the deck grid, plus one lander has the vehicle shown in a greenish tan color.

It would have been nice if the planet maps and star maps could have been shown in color, but the B&W are OK.

The one thing that seems to be missing to me though is artwork for some of the base equipment and even personal weaponry. One of the things that really stuck out to me about the original Traveller:2300 and 2300AD works were the simple, yet well-done, images of many such items really gave the game a look and feel that made me fell that the authors had put some real thought into developing the overall "feel" of the game. To me its a little unfortunate that this seems to kind of be missing here.

In the end though, overall I like the book and so far it seems to be pretty good to me.

Regards

Pat

 

[aramis]

Gravitic focus of lasers is a TNEism (that carried forward into T4), but aside from TNE and T4 isn't explicitly part of any other ruleset.

MGT lasers are long enough range that they probably are grav focused, but it's not explicit that they are, nor essential that they are. If you presume instead high-frequency/short-wavelenth lasers/masers, you can narrow the beam enough without grav focus, even under TNE, to get the shorter 50,000-100,000km ranges of MGT lasers - a mere 2-4 hexes in BL terms. (TNE/BL uses 0.1 LS hexes/bands... and weapons with ranges to 80hexes, some 8 LS... Longer, even, than CT.)

So there's no need for reversing a grav-focus for M2300AD, given the ranges involved.

 

[mike wightman]

IIRC the lasers in T2300 are much shorter range weapons than in other versions of Traveller.Ranged ship combat is between drones, missiles and fighters. Lasers have a 1 hex range.

But I can't check at the moment... =(

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

Thanks.

I think what might be confusing me is that;

1) In the original 2300AD the authors indicated that - each hex is 600,000km in length across & that "lasers may not fire at more than 1 hex range"

2) In the Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook it notes that the Distant Range band is 50,000 km & that a pulse laser will be "out of range' of getting a hit @ a Distant Range.

3) the new 2300AD book indicates that;

Close Range is < 300,000 km,
Short Range is 300,001 to 600,000 km,
Medium Range is 600,001 to 1,500,000 km,
Long Range is 1,500,001 to 3,000,000 km, &
Very Long Range is 3,000,001 to 4,800,000 km

As such its not fully clear to me whether I should assume that -

a) lasers should be limited to the 600,000 km range of the original 2300AD rulebook (which would be two hexes or range bands)

b) they should be limited to the 50,000 km range of the Mongoose Traveller Core rulebook (which would be well less than one hex or range band) or

c) should they be limited to no greater than a "Distant Range" (as indicated in the Core MGT Traveller Rulebook which is defined as the range band beyond "Very Long Range" in that book.

If a) then a laser could then range out to about two hexes or range bands.

If b) then it would seem that a laser would only be able to hit stuff in the same hex or range band (and maybe not even all of those).

If c) then a laser could maybe even range out to 4,800,000 km.

To me, c) seems like an awful long distance in comparison to the original 2300AD rules, while b) being less than 1 hex or range band seems like it'd be too hard to try and do. Overall a) seem doable but I haven't yet found a mention of a 600,000 km range limit in the new 2300AD rulebook, and the DM's and stuff from the Core Traveller rulebook don't seem to match up with this interpretation.

Pat

 

[Putraack]

Similarly, if I am understanding correctly, Stutterwarp is a "pseudo-velocity" type movement while in Traveller, movement is based on Newtonian motions and accelerations. However, since Stutterwarps don't work well in a gravity well, that some vessels (especially landers and the like) may have thrust engines rated by how fast they can accelerate a craft.

So far I haven't been able to find how movement and combat between vessels with these two different type drives may be handled, though.

I haven't read the new book yet, but in the original 2300 games, stutterwarp is the only drive used. Within a given distance of a body (planet, star, etc.), it only works at sublight speed. Beyond that distance, it's an FTL drive. So, there is no need for two drives.

 

[Timmy]

Combat between stutterwarp and non stutterwarp equipped vessels tends to be very bad for the non stutterwarp pary, as their effective speed is zero. A vessel with a 2300 movement speed of 6 can move 12 light seconds in a 30 second turn, effective velucity of 0.4c (see notes about the slaver war in the old 2300AD rulebooks).

Thrust based drives are only used for making planetry landings.

Laser combat ranges are limited to same hex or adjacent hex, this means that if both ships are in the centre of their hexes, the range is 2 light seconds, or 600000 km.

The longer ranges noted could relate to sensor dection.

 

[zonk]

on opening 2300AD

I just bought it at my FLGS. Lucky to still have one of those. Just begun reading and I'm already depressed

The Core reads like Gurps Transhuman Space. If I understand this is supposed to be the 'good' societal groups. Both, Gurps THS, and, so far... not into 2300AD very far, 2300AD read like prison camps. Orwell's 1984 could only dream of the control and surveillance that both rule sets societies allow.

The Cyberpunk dystopian society always seemed much freer than THS... or now 2300AD. No matter what was said about cyberpunk it's obvious that there was much more freedom than stated. Our heroes always had access to education and someone made all those marvelous toys... cheap! o:

I like the recast and explanation of Twilight, that works. Some things are kinda wonky but I suppose that can be put down to the original text and the failure to see things like the Canadian oil sands or the Bakken oil shale back then. I wish I had seen them back in the late '80s :rofl:

I shall push onward and see where it leads me.

I am disappointed it lacks an index but I suppose page count forbid it.

Perhaps Mongoose could post one online?

 

[Strithe]

I just bought it at my FLGS. Lucky to still have one of those. Just begun reading and I'm already depressed

The Core reads like Gurps Transhuman Space. If I understand this is supposed to be the 'good' societal groups. Both, Gurps THS, and, so far... not into 2300AD very far, 2300AD read like prison camps. Orwell's 1984 could only dream of the control and surveillance that both rule sets societies allow.

The Cyberpunk dystopian society always seemed much freer than THS... or now 2300AD. No matter what was said about cyberpunk it's obvious that there was much more freedom than stated. Our heroes always had access to education and someone made all those marvelous toys... cheap! o:

I like the recast and explanation of Twilight, that works. Some things are kinda wonky but I suppose that can be put down to the original text and the failure to see things like the Canadian oil sands or the Bakken oil shale back then. I wish I had seen them back in the late '80s :rofl:

I shall push onward and see where it leads me.

I am disappointed it lacks an index but I suppose page count forbid it.

Perhaps Mongoose could post one online?

I hadn't really gotten that from the read on the Core. Sure, there's a ton of surveillance & an overall lack of privacy, but the average Law Level is 8 which while on the high side isn't quite Big-Brother levels of oppression. It just means that adventures involving a lot of violence aren't possible in the Core, although the text on areas where the surveillance is thin or nonexistent means that there are probably little "islands" you can get up to some mayhem.

The only things that they're really strict on are Orbital Quarantine & the ban on allowing DNA-modified humans on the Core. Even in the original version disobeying OCQ could get you blown out of the sky. Also, the original setting had two penal colonies (Dunkelheim & Dukou), and an attempt was made to do the same with King. It's not like the Core being a tad heavy-handed is exactly something new.

Overall I'd say the Core reads more like an exaggerated version of some Western European nations today: an intrusive nanny-state akin to a combination of Minority Report (without the psychics) and Farenheit 451 (without the book-burning). 1984, with its violent police state strapping rat cages to people's faces, it is certainly not.

I also never read that any of the societies were the "good guys." The moral ambiguity is what I liked: you could run it like Star Trek where the Core nations are trying to maintain order on the barbarous Frontier, or you could run it like Firefly where the Core is oppressing the Frontier, or you could run something in between.

You need SOME reason for people to leave the rather idyllic life of the Core. Since there isn't rampant poverty, mass starvation, or ecological disaster I'd say cultural oppression & lack of economic opportunity are logical reasons why someone would want to leave the safety of Core for the harsh life of the Frontier.

 

[SpaceBadger]

I'm sure many of you remember Jerry Pournelle's novels in which Earth was dominated by the CoDominium, an alliance between the USA and USSR, which were the two superpowers of the 1970s and 1980s when those novels were written. The USA and USSR did not miraculously become friends, but rather created a treaty to end the Cold War, move back from the everpresent threat of a thermonuclear WWIII, and dominate the rest of the world.

I'm considering making something like that in my 2300 universe, a CoDominium treaty between - wait for it - the French Empire and the Manchurians. Together they could dominate the Core and each of their respective Arms, and be economically powerful enough to exert a lot of control even up the American Arm.

Comments?

 

[mike wightman]

Have the French come to dominate a United States of Europe to give them the same clout as the Chinese/Manchurians.

German breakaway sometime in the 2100s leads to the return of the French Imperium and sets things up nicely for limited conflicts in Europe and in space that eventually leads to the power blocs signing the co-dominium treaty that you are after.

Nice idea by the way

 

[SpaceBadger]

I was thinking of following published history up to 2300, then having the CoDominium begin sometime after that as the French and Manchurians decide that with all of their colonies and military power, they could really dominate everybody else if they put aside their differences and worked together.

The CoDominium treaty could also minimize conflict between the two major powers by formalizing zones of interest: each would be sole master of the Arm that bears its name, with the other agreeing not to interfere and to actually assist in specified ways; the French would not interfere if the Manchurians moved to conquer other parts of Asia, while the Manchurians woudl give the French free reign to bring those pesky Germans to heel (and perhaps the UK as well).

I can see Manchuria finally following the age-old Chinese dream of taking over India, while the French expand their "colonial" holdings in Africa.

I don't know about the New World, Australia, or Japan.

I like your idea of France using the existing EU structure to dominate Europe. Maybe the two CoDominium powers would find it best politically to use their combined clout to create a world government in which all nations would theoretically be equal, while in reality everything would be decided by the French and Manchurians, and other nations would have to go along or else face sanctions. That might be an easier thing to enforce than blatant military conquest. The French and Manchurian troops in their blue helmets aren't really a garrision of occupation, they are "peacekeepers" authorized by the world government to quell unrest.

 

[epicenter00]

The Core reads like Gurps Transhuman Space. If I understand this is supposed to be the 'good' societal groups. Both, Gurps THS, and, so far... not into 2300AD very far, 2300AD read like prison camps. Orwell's 1984 could only dream of the control and surveillance that both rule sets societies allow.

The Cyberpunk dystopian society always seemed much freer than THS... or now 2300AD. No matter what was said about cyberpunk it's obvious that there was much more freedom than stated. Our heroes always had access to education and someone made all those marvelous toys... cheap! o:

To play Devil's Advocate, as a former Punk-head, the games based around Cyberpunk ideals (R. Tal's Cyberpunk and FASA's Shadowrun) always had a very superficial treatment of Cyberpunk society. The punk movement's writers view was a lot less ideal while the games were more around romantic wish-fulfillment than anything else.

Collin, I think, tried to extrapolate things to a "realistic" reality, so it seems pretty depressing as "freedom" is such as a big thing these days. I don't think street-level Cyberpunk civilization as presented in the RPGs would work. The situation would more resemble Mogadishu since the end of Siad Barre's regime than Blade Runner's Los Angeles. Freedom doesn't mean a lot if it's "freedom to be shot in the head because some guy got a brand new gun and felt like shooting off a dozen rounds." Cyberpunk's rose-colored version involves a stark divide between "Oppression" and "Freedom." Cyberpunk's reality is supposed to be a frying-pan/fire divide between "Invasive Surveillance State" vs. "Utter Neglect."

For instance, in Gibson's Neuromancer there's a scene where some characters want to talk, so they pay a fixer a pretty tidy sum of money ... just to have a place where they can hold a conversation with the peace of mind that they're not going to be listened in on. There's mention made of how privacy costs money in that world and its metered by the minute. It's certainly a surveillance state if privacy is, for all intents and purposes, a black-market commodity.

I'm considering making something like that in my 2300 universe, a CoDominium treaty between - wait for it - the French Empire and the Manchurians. Together they could dominate the Core and each of their respective Arms, and be economically powerful enough to exert a lot of control even up the American Arm.

Comments?

You can argue that it's already happened de facto. Never underestimate the power of "understandings" and people deciding the way things are is "reality." The game has a hugely eurocentric (or ame-euro-centric) focus because of its RL playerbase, so we don't really hear very much about Manchuria's domination.

A look at the 2300 star maps will show you that Manchuria has the "Chinese" Arm locked down pretty tight. There's other nations in the Chinese Arm, but just looking at the stars that Manchuria controls, Manchuria is the power there. There's a lot of stars in the Chinese Arm, and due to a mild failure of imagination by the original writers in my opinion, there's more hospitable planets along the Chinese Arm than there are in the French Arm.

Manchuria lost the Central Asian War, however for a game based on the historical world of the 1800s, Manchuria hasn't lost any its "own" territory and appears not to have had to even pay war reparations to the French. The only explanation that immediately comes to mind is that, even defeated, Manchuria was simply too powerful for even the vaunted French and her allies to do anything more than to simply make the Manchus accept a treaty. After this war, the leadership clique of the French might decide that the Manchus are no longer a power that can be easily dominated and must be worked with. The Manchus decide that the French are too powerful to replace just now so they'll have to work with the French for a decade or two more.

 

[Kilgs]

One of the problems with a French/Manchuria team-up is that the East Asian War (or whatever it's called) was only 10-30 years previously depending on your campaign date. There's bound to be some hard feelings.

A concept I've been building on for my alt is that of the Commonwealth. In our timeline, the Commonwealth includes all of the old British colonies and is basically a loose and limited united nations of ex-british states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Nations

Can't decide whether the British reform the Commonwealth into something solid or the Australians take it away from the British for the same reason.
----------
In the extreme alt (Silcore) setting I'm working on, the British reform their holdings into the Crown Sovereignty and the Commonwealth are those colonies that refuse to bend to the now-autocratic British government.

 

[SpaceBadger]

One of the problems with a French/Manchuria team-up is that the East Asian War (or whatever it's called) was only 10-30 years previously depending on your campaign date. There's bound to be some hard feelings.

That is kinda the point... as in Pournelle's CoDominium the USA and USSR were by no means friends or allies, they had just worked out this truce that let them pretty much dictate things to the rest of the world, and control all of the interstellar colonies. Actually, we saw very little of how the CD operated on Earth, much more of how the colonial system worked, including forced colonization and indentured servitude under BuReloc (the Bureau of Relocation).

(The USA was not really a nice place, it was a police state with wide divisions between the Taxpayers (the rich) and Citizens (the poor). But the CD military allowed the American and Russian troops to work together and get to know and respect each other, and when the CD on Earth finally fell apart it was the CD Space Navy that picked up the pieces and formed the core of the "Empire of Man" that followed.)

 

[McPerth]

That is kinda the point... as in Pournelle's CoDominium the USA and USSR were by no means friends or allies, they had just worked out this truce that let them pretty much dictate things to the rest of the world, and control all of the interstellar colonies. Actually, we saw very little of how the CD operated on Earth, much more of how the colonial system worked, including forced colonization and indentured servitude under BuReloc (the Bureau of Relocation).

(The USA was not really a nice place, it was a police state with wide divisions between the Taxpayers (the rich) and Citizens (the poor). But the CD military allowed the American and Russian troops to work together and get to know and respect each other, and when the CD on Earth finally fell apart it was the CD Space Navy that picked up the pieces and formed the core of the "Empire of Man" that followed.)

And, while welcome in the colonies, CD troops were generally despised (or outright hated) in most Earth places.

 

[Kilgs]

Just a quick note to Colin... I managed to skim/read my shiny new 2300 Mongoose book yesterday. I have but one thing to say:

BRAVO, SIR, BRAVO!!

The quality of Mongoose Trav books is pretty erratic and averages on poor most of the time. Your book is not only one of the most detailed and complete books but it's also just a phenomenal collection of information on the 2300 setting. I can't wait to dig into it more but, for someone who stopped buying Mongoose Trav stuff around Book 8, this product just blew me away.

It's pretty rare that a 2nd edition can capture the feel and the energy of an original product. 2300 is a rare animal and you've completely improved on the original materials while porting it over to a new system that was already in place. Very well done!