3I as "Citizenship"

[Cryton]

I'm doing a rework on MTU, and I need to check a few facts.

Ok, lets make sure I have this strait.

The Third Imperium dosnt rule worlds (well it does rule a few worlds, but not many), but rather the space between them. They have set up a few simple rules, and collects a small reasonable tax, that if your worlds government agrees to abide by them and pay the taxes, your world becomes a "member world" and the 3I will let your people off planet to engage in trade with your interstellar neighbors and engage in interstellar tourism.
Other than those few simple rules, they dont give a stabbed rat how your world is run, but if your world dosnt enforce those few simple rules, or pay its taxes, your world is red-zoned and cut off from the interstellar scene.
Also, the 3I usually claims the best starport onworld for their, in effect, embassy and extra territorial zone, and station a "Noble" onworld to act as an interface for your worlds government and the Imperial Moot. Occasionally they make someone form a joining world the local Imperial Noble to smooth over the transition.
The Third Imperium also occasionally builds a base of some sort on a world or in a system for their own use, probably working with said worlds government to do, probably as a form of economic stimulus. They also provide a mail service for its "member worlds".
As an added bonus, if your world is in good standing with the 3I, aka "a member world", you may choose to claim Imperial Citizenship as well, kind of like claiming membership in the United Nations.
It all seems pretty simple really.

Is this correct so far?

So far it reminds me a bit of the Farscape Peacekeepers, or at least having the potential to go that way.
Any comments?

 

[Cryton]

Now, The 3I maintains several military services, a Navy, Marines, and a Scout Service. It also employs Starport Authority, Bureaucrats and Administrators. Overseeing it all are the Imperial Nobles who prolly do double duty as diplomats.

Also out there are the MegaCorperations, the Traveller equivolent of trans national companys, that trade amongst vast numbers of worlds 3I wide.

Both draw their enlistees from the member worlds, with the promise of pay, 3I citizenship, the chance to see the universe, and for many of them , training in High tech skills that will help them when they retire on their homeworlds, usually helping raise the tech know how of their homeworlds.

Good so far?

Now, so far all of this is pretty base. What it means to me however, is that there are probably few actual 3I citizens, as most of the member worlds population will prolly NEVER leave their worlds or claim their 3I citizenship. (examp. How many people that are eligable bother claim their United Nations Citizenship?)

As the game is about Travellers, its my assumption, that the players are that rare minority that have claimed their 3I citizenship, and the benifits of Tavelling, and they are fairly rare.

So far so good?

 

[Cryton]

Now, with all that said, what benifits, if any, should I give for those few who actually claim 3I citizenship?

 

[Vargr]

Freedom to travel, freedom to join any of the Imperial services, freedom to trade in the spacelanes, freedom to own and operate a private starship, right to Imperial pensions, military equipment permits, right to petition a hearing on an Imperial court, right to bear Imperial Letters of Marque and participate in mercenary activities within Imperial Space, and beyond, in event of Imperial declaration of hostilities against a hostile polity, protection from enslavement and being blown by WMD's, right to establish yourself in any non-Red Zoned Imperial system...

The list just goes on, and on...

 

[ThunderChilde]

Just a small clarifacation. The SPA build the starport, High and Down port on land ceeded to the Imperium for extrality zone. Its much easier to build from scratch to meet Imperial Regulations than to acquire and revamp a local space port. It pays for it's self with fuel fee's, docking fee's and whatever other fees and inspections and services are part of doing buisness in the 3I.

 

[Cryton]

Just a small clarifacation. The SPA build the starport, High and Down port on land ceeded to the Imperium for extrality zone. Its much easier to build from scratch to meet Imperial Regulations than to acquire and revamp a local space port. It pays for it's self with fuel fee's, docking fee's and whatever other fees and inspections and services are part of doing buisness in the 3I.

I'd have to agree, however, in the case of those initial first few (days/months/years) after a world FIRST joins, and until the new starport is finished, its prolly going to be whatever the best facility onplanet was at the time. This would explain the "D" and "E" class starports on establised worlds.
I've also decided that the starport and its surrounding "environs" is also most likely the local Imperial Nobles fief.

 

[rancke]

Now, The 3I maintains several military services, a Navy, Marines, and a Scout Service. It also employs Starport Authority, Bureaucrats and Administrators. Overseeing it all are the Imperial Nobles who prolly do double duty as diplomats.

Canon is a bit conflicting here. Here's my best effort at interpreting it:

The Imperium relies on two lines of command. The regular one is officers and bureaucrats appointed by the various ministries. The other line is the high nobles. Each member world has a high noble assigned who acts as a sort of ombudsman and failsafe. If the regular bureaucracy fails or runs into a situation it can't cope with, a high noble whose area of responsibility the situation falls under has the right (and duty) to issue binding commands upon Imperial officers and bureaucrats. The only limitations are Imperial law, higher-ranking nobles, and the prospect of eventually having to explain to the Emperor why he superceded the regular bureaucracy.

The high dukes do double duty; they act as Imperial governors over their duchies and can overrule any lower-ranking high nobles. The lines can get a bit crossed here. A Colonial Office subsector director is appointed by the Colonial Office at Capital but is supposed to cooperate with the local duke. The duke can ask him for his cooperation (and mostly expect to get it). Or he can exercise his imperium and order the director to cooperate.


Hans

 

[aramis]

A couple suggestions... make the starport the Noble's fief. It gives him motivation to act for the world's general benefit...

I have always maintained a "noble/citizen/subject" distinction set.
IMTU's Imperium:
Nobles have right to address their homeworld noble, the local noble, and to be tried by the local noble's court, plus to be armed better than citizens; all citizenship rights included.

Citizens have the right to travel between worlds (but not on worlds), to be able to return to the starport unless bound over on criminal charges, to be tried by jury, to appeal any non-homeworld local felony or local high misdemeanor to the local noble, to be tried in an imperial court for any imperial crime, to apply for merchantile, corporate or mercenary license, to purchase a ship, to bear weapons allowed to local citizens, and all subject rights. Citizens may also transfer their local citizenship to any world which will accept them.

Subjects have a right to life, to be compensated for their labors, to be free of psionic compulsion, to join the imperial services, and to representation in trial. Subjects may also be allowed to travel, but it is not a right. Subjects may be allowed weapons, but it isn't a right.

Earning Citizenship IMTU requires either 2 years good conduct in imperial service, working in any imperially licensed body for 2 years (such as a megacorp, merchant ship, merc unit or starmerc unit), or sponsorship by an imperial noble confirmed by his superior; that last usually is represented by gaining Soc 10+. I presume that almost any of the stock careers in the Core can qualify.

My 3I is also not so hands off... even a non-member inside the borders will be required to protect subject rights, and institutionalizing violations results in a couple of warnings, followed by a program to force regime change.

 

[jatay3]

I got the impression that in Traveller there were the pariochial cultures of the planet and the Intersteller Culture, and that people differed on whether their outlook was more off-world or on-world. For instance one person might have more in common(including even kin-ties) with someone on a planet far away and another with someone a few miles from him. Some people of course are ambidexterous.

To take examples from other space operas Paul Atreides was raised in an Intersteller Culture and the Fremen in a Plantary one. Likewise, Kira seems to have a more planetary outlook and the Captain of DS9 a more Intersteller one.

Now with this Imperial Citizenship, would, I think be theoretically given to anyone in a member world on birth. However Civus Imperius Sum would not in fact come into play until they used it, just as Americans have rights that they do not choose to exercise(I do not publish a news paper, though in fact I post on the web; I do not own a gun, though I do in fact own a trophy-sword from the Highland Games which is theoretically an "arm", and I have never in my entire life assembled peaceably or otherwise to protest for redress of grievances, though I am a regular at more then one website). Some, especially Nobles(but not all nobles), or those residing near Starports would self-identify as Imperial citizens and others will identify with their world. Still others would identify with a faction on their world perhaps defined by territory, blood ties, or mutual interests(the last will be more important perhaps because the datanet makes local geography less relevant; but the others won't disappear).

I picture the Imperial government as being in some ways analogous to the Medieval Clerical Bureaucracy. This was an extraterritorial system superimposed on Western Europe that had some governmental responsibilities, and though it was not officially a government it could be said to be the glue of what amounted to a ragtag European "Empire": a patchwork one to be sure, but that is a characteristic other empires have had. Each Monastary had the right to autonomy within it's own domain and they were in constant communication. They also managed to thrive by their dominance of information. They were never really as united as it seems from this description but then Imperial bureaucrats and nobles don't always get along either. Like the Medieval Church the Imperium and the Local Authorities will have constant turf tension and negotiations.

Where it is different is that the Catholic Church, though it had some muscle organic to it's system never really had enough force to compete with the warlords about and always had to depend on information for it's power. The Imperium controls both force and information. At least intersteller information and intersteller force. The chief card for planetary governments to play is simply that a planet is big. The local government can usually shelter anyone they want to shelter and be as oppressive or as lenient as they want, because the planet controls information on the planet. Kind of like in Dune where the Emperor controlls intersteller force, the Bene Geserit control psionic lore, the Guild controls intersteller trade, but the Fremen control Desert Power on Arrakis. This balance means that the Imperium needs cooperation from local governments, sometimes more then the reverse. If for instance a given world is uninterested in intersteller trade, then it may regard the Imperium more as a nuisance then anything else. If the Imperium really wants to concentrate on a planets internal affairs and does it competently it can change matters as if desires. Most of the time, it will do nothing of the sort, and in fact the Imperial Ideology of "balance between autonomy and Imperial hegemony" is as much a recognition of the necessary reality as it is an ideal.

 

[HG_B]

Now with this Imperial Citizenship, would, I think be theoretically given to anyone in a member world on birth.

Yes, hence the cannon on no slavery. If you are a citizen of a member world, you are automatically a 3I citizen and have the rights and responsibilities of such.

 

[Cryton]

I got the impression that in Traveller there were the pariochial cultures of the planet and the Intersteller Culture, and that people differed on whether their outlook was more off-world or on-world. For instance one person might have more in common(including even kin-ties) with someone on a planet far away and another with someone a few miles from him. Some people of course are ambidexterous.

To take examples from other space operas Paul Atreides was raised in an Intersteller Culture and the Fremen in a Plantary one. Likewise, Kira seems to have a more planetary outlook and the Captain of DS9 a more Intersteller one.

Now with this Imperial Citizenship, would, I think be theoretically given to anyone in a member world on birth. However Civus Imperius Sum would not in fact come into play until they used it, just as Americans have rights that they do not choose to exercise(I do not publish a news paper, though in fact I post on the web; I do not own a gun, though I do in fact own a trophy-sword from the Highland Games which is theoretically an "arm", and I have never in my entire life assembled peaceably or otherwise to protest for redress of grievances, though I am a regular at more then one website). Some, especially Nobles(but not all nobles), or those residing near Starports would self-identify as Imperial citizens and others will identify with their world. Still others would identify with a faction on their world perhaps defined by territory, blood ties, or mutual interests(the last will be more important perhaps because the datanet makes local geography less relevant; but the others won't disappear).

I picture the Imperial government as being in some ways analogous to the Medieval Clerical Bureaucracy. This was an extraterritorial system superimposed on Western Europe that had some governmental responsibilities, and though it was not officially a government it could be said to be the glue of what amounted to a ragtag European "Empire": a patchwork one to be sure, but that is a characteristic other empires have had. Each Monastary had the right to autonomy within it's own domain and they were in constant communication. They also managed to thrive by their dominance of information. They were never really as united as it seems from this description but then Imperial bureaucrats and nobles don't always get along either. Like the Medieval Church the Imperium and the Local Authorities will have constant turf tension and negotiations.

Where it is different is that the Catholic Church, though it had some muscle organic to it's system never really had enough force to compete with the warlords about and always had to depend on information for it's power. The Imperium controls both force and information. At least intersteller information and intersteller force. The chief card for planetary governments to play is simply that a planet is big. The local government can usually shelter anyone they want to shelter and be as oppressive or as lenient as they want, because the planet controls information on the planet. Kind of like in Dune where the Emperor controlls intersteller force, the Bene Geserit control psionic lore, the Guild controls intersteller trade, but the Fremen control Desert Power on Arrakis. This balance means that the Imperium needs cooperation from local governments, sometimes more then the reverse. If for instance a given world is uninterested in intersteller trade, then it may regard the Imperium more as a nuisance then anything else. If the Imperium really wants to concentrate on a planets internal affairs and does it competently it can change matters as if desires. Most of the time, it will do nothing of the sort, and in fact the Imperial Ideology of "balance between autonomy and Imperial hegemony" is as much a recognition of the necessary reality as it is an ideal.

All very Interesting Jatay3, but what rights are given to those who choose to claim their Imperial Citizenship? Meaning what rights does a Traveller have REGARDLESS of what world hes Traveled to.

 

[kafka47]

IMTU, it would be a process akin to the EU. There is a higher level of bureaucracy that one can appeal to. :rofl:So while many EU governments may have laws against extradiction without notification of individual citizens of different European government...it will be for the European Court of Human Rights to punish the national governments for doing so. The sanction could be financial compensation or it could be redress through changing national laws. So it is with the Imperium.

Otherwise, in my perfect Imperium the right of citizenship co-current with service to the Imperium and laws governing the spaceways. Therefore, the longer one serves the Imperium the greater the possibility a court of one's peers would be someone with the same level of experience as many of the PCs/NPCs.

Many of the useful functions of the nobility IMTU is harmonize legislation and littigation to match Imperial standards. Therefore, the edicts the Emperor signs still carry the force of law but dependent upon the local nobility to make it so. Each world can buck the trend but mutual treaties bind the worlds together to accept the Imperial norm.

 

[Sir Brad]

IIRC If your a Citizen or Subject of a Member Government Your a 3I Citizen and have all the Rights & Responsibilities their of. If you chose not to Actively Peruse those Rights the 3I won't push you in to fulfilling the Responsibilities unless their is a Dire Need. Heck most people will enjoy their Rights and pay their Dues for their entire life without realising it.

It's those who chose to engage in Interstellar Commerce or Imperial Service that make the most of and pay the highest price of their 3I Citizenship.

 

[kafka47]

IIRC If your a Citizen or Subject of a Member Government Your a 3I Citizen and have all the Rights & Responsibilities their of. If you chose not to Actively Peruse those Rights the 3I won't push you in to fulfilling the Responsibilities unless their is a Dire Need. Heck most people will enjoy their Rights and pay their Dues for their entire life without realising it.

It's those who chose to engage in Interstellar Commerce or Imperial Service that make the most of and pay the highest price of their 3I Citizenship.

Yes, that is exactly it. But, do add in the benefits of participating...and that is where the nobility and Starports come in. If a world is promising and has the right matrix for a successful take-off, it could also apply to the Imperium for funding or sharing of research (why reinvent the wheel or grav plate - when the Imperial Patent Office will allow you have them for a low price).

Deeper integration means - more interference and more involvement. Also, it does not preclude Imperial interests ie the bureaucracy, megacorps, armed forces, para-military services also having an interest in a world...bringing willy-nilly into the fold of a greater Imperial embrace...afterall, the Imperium is still an Empire.

 

[jatay3]

Yes, that is exactly it. But, do add in the benefits of participating...and that is where the nobility and Starports come in. If a world is promising and has the right matrix for a successful take-off, it could also apply to the Imperium for funding or sharing of research (why reinvent the wheel or grav plate - when the Imperial Patent Office will allow you have them for a low price).

Deeper integration means - more interference and more involvement. Also, it does not preclude Imperial interests ie the bureaucracy, megacorps, armed forces, para-military services also having an interest in a world...bringing willy-nilly into the fold of a greater Imperial embrace...afterall, the Imperium is still an Empire.

It can change the culture of whole planets. Lanth seems to have developed into an Imperial "Sparta" with the main industry being supporting the Imperial armed forces and a militaristic culture(more "militaristic" in the Israeli or Swiss sense or even the nineteenth-century Prussian sense, then in the Police-State sense). Lanth is sort of like the old Habsburg Military Frontier in its strategic importance. It also might have some resemblance to the Poland of the Sienkiewicz Trilogy from descriptions I have read(I can't read it properly until it is available in Kindle; no time if it is from the library). Lanth would be a culture that takes war for granted and has a martial feel to it. But it is able to support a disproportionate military ethos that would ruin an independent economy, simply because it is used as a fortress by the Imperium.

Lanth arguably benefited from all this. It is being used as a tool of the Imperium, and the local populace have been forced to defend their homes against people with whom they have no quarrel at the moment simply because the Imperium happens to be at war. On the other hand, without the Imperium, Lanth would have been absorbed by the Sword Worlds. Furthermore the effort the Imperium put into Lanth encouraged local prosperity.

Lanth's status as a fortress world gives it an artificial economy. It would encourage government work rather then enterprenuership and much of the resources would be imported by the Imperium. In a way Lanth's chief export is Imperial service, and probably there are a number of Lanthians in the Imperial Navy, Marines, and Army.

 

[jatay3]

It can change the culture of whole planets. Lanth seems to have developed into an Imperial "Sparta" with the main industry being supporting the Imperial armed forces and a militaristic culture(more "militaristic" in the Israeli or Swiss sense or even the nineteenth-century Prussian sense, then in the Police-State sense). Lanth is sort of like the old Habsburg Military Frontier in its strategic importance. It also might have some resemblance to the Poland of the Sienkiewicz Trilogy from descriptions I have read(I can't read it properly until it is available in Kindle; no time if it is from the library). Lanth would be a culture that takes war for granted and has a martial feel to it. But it is able to support a disproportionate military ethos that would ruin an independent economy, simply because it is used as a fortress by the Imperium.

Lanth arguably benefited from all this. It is being used as a tool of the Imperium, and the local populace have been forced to defend their homes against people with whom they have no quarrel at the moment simply because the Imperium happens to be at war. On the other hand, without the Imperium, Lanth would have been absorbed by the Sword Worlds. Furthermore the effort the Imperium put into Lanth encouraged local prosperity.

Lanth's status as a fortress world gives it an artificial economy. It would encourage government work rather then enterprenuership and much of the resources would be imported by the Imperium. In a way Lanth's chief export is Imperial service, and probably there are a number of Lanthians in the Imperial Navy, Marines, and Army.

Indeed, now that I think about it, that is just one example. Probably there are quite a few planets that are allowed to specialize to an extraordinary degree by the Imperial system.

 

[jatay3]

All very Interesting Jatay3, but what rights are given to those who choose to claim their Imperial Citizenship? Meaning what rights does a Traveller have REGARDLESS of what world hes Traveled to.

I should think it would be an unwritten thing. There are just certain things that are the "rights of Englishmen" although no constitution says so.

To speculate: an Imperial citizen has at least the right to freedom from arbitrary interference with his life. That is a noble cannot just go up to someone and say,"Your my wife", "but I'm already married","But I'm a noble, so tough". If Imperial nobles could do such things without being brought up on charges, ceremonially ostracized by their peers, or some combination thereof then there is no such thing as Imperial "citizenship". Imperial citizens seem to have a minimal degree of freedom of expression if one can gather from awfully free quotations in the side notes some of whom could get you in trouble even in comparatively mild despotisms. In fact I don't think a noble could give orders to anyone that is not either his subordinate or his direct employee without an Imperial Warrant.

As culture is a mixture of Terran and Vilani, the officially recognized rights would be from those traditions. Which means the rights of an Imperial citizen might well be roughly what they are now. Hints given in the volume Sword Worlds seem to indicate that the average Imperial citizen is familiar with jury duty.

The long accretion of time, the Vilani influence, and the influence of some Terran legal traditions(like English common law) would give the laws of the Imperium a Talmudic quality. However the laws of the Imperium would I picture be dependable, more then that of pariochial governments. There is plenty of room within this context for a Dune like sinister conspiracy, but not for habitual arbitrariness in day to day life. For instance a Tukera princeling might take part in a plot to exploit some innocent natives that are in harmony with nature. But that same princeling would not just do whatever he wants to his neighbors in an overly obvious manner. Imperial Nobles are People Who Wear Fancy Clothes, not People Exempt From The Law

I think though that Imperial Warrants would be an exception to normal rights of citizens. The chief ones who would suffer from this would naturally be those important enough to be noticed.

One part of the question, and also the foil for dramatic situations, is what rights does someone have should he appeal to the Imperium for protection against the local government. I suppose he would have rights that would include:

1. The right to be tried by a Court of Extradition according to Imperial Law with regard to such things.

2. The right to protection by the Imperium until the Court is summoned.

3. If in fact(as will sometimes be the case)the local government just wants to be rid of him and the fugitive just wants to leave, then the fugitive has a right to reside in Imperial territory. This is tricky as he does not have the right to use this as a means to further crime or subversion in his home territory. Most likly such cases will be considered a form of parole.

I would picture Imperial Starports as being like Cities of Refuge among the Ancient Israelites. When someone is accused of a crime he has a right to flee their and appeal for the protection of the local magistrate which would likly be a priest. If the offended clan demands him, a trial would be held(sometimes by lot; I can't remember if it was in this case). If he is found guilty of the Torah equiv to first degree murder he is turned over to the offended clans "avenger of blood"(bounty hunter). If not he simply moved to the city of refuge on the knowledge that if he went outside, his hunters had a right to him.