A newbie question.

[Ebon Pharos]

Greetings
I finally bought a box set from EBay awhile back and have been looking it over and reading it. I also purchased the pdf version of the stater box set. Now I know I will have more questions as I go along, but the one that stands out the most at this point is after a character is created can he or she gain more skills? I know at one point one of the two books said a character can not have more skills than their int plus their education, I just cannot seem to find if a character can get more after they have been made. Thank you in advance for any and all help.

 

[atpollard]

I am not sure where it appears in your specific set of rule books, but The Traveller Book has rules on page 103 entitled 'Experience' (it comes after 'Encounters' and before 'Trade and Commerce') which should appear somewhere in your rules as well.

SKILL IMPROVEMENT
A character may temporarily improve his skills in another field by dedicating himself to it for a program of four years duration. Only two skills may be chosen, and the individual must already have at least skill-1 in each skill. Skill level reverts to the original level at the end of the program. If the program continues for a second four years, the new skill level becomes permenant at that time.

 

[BlackBat242]

The rules are also found in Book 2 Starships in the section titled Experience - pages 42 & 43.

 

[Supplement Four]

You should get the Traveller Book as your go-to set of rules. It really is the best, most complete set of rules for CT. You can get it at DriveThru.

Besides giving you some systems and guidelines for improving characters, the section also states that there are methods not covered by the rules that remain in the purview of the Ref. And, that basically means, the Ref should award skills to characters as they see fit. Make up whatever seems right to you for "sleep learning", for example, that takes place while a character is in cold sleep.

I would caution you to always be very stingy with skills, though. CT characters are only supposed to have a few. Many of the skills in the game do not have a penalty for not having the skill--meaning that anybody can try, with or without skill. For example, there is no requirement for Medical skill when pulling a character out of cold sleep. Medical-2 or better gets you a bonus, but there is no penalty for not having Medical skill.

Unlike many games today, CT characters reveal the skills where they excel rather than have the sum total of everything the character knows displayed on a skill sheet. That's why you see many CT characters with just one or two skills. Those are the areas where the character does really well. But, the character is still able to make other types of skill checks.

Take this example: Sensor data needs to be read by one of the PCs. It's an 5+ roll to correctly interpret the sensor. Normally, this would be a Navigator check (note that skill is used for sensors in Book 1).

Can any character attempt to read the sensor? You bet! Just make the throw. Throw 2D, and succeed on a roll of 5+.

Can that same character (without Navigator skill) serve on a starship? Not normally, and not legally. Navigator-1 is required for that position. But, what if the ship's navigator is killed or incapacitated? Does that mean that the ship cannot be navigated? Heck no! Any character can fill the position in a pinch, filling in until the ship can make port and hire a new Navigator.

The Experience rules in the Traveller Book typically allow (if a roll is made) one blade and one gun skill to be added to the character or improved one level (if the character already has a blade or gun skill).

This raise in the two skills is not permanent, but it does take effect immediately. Following the Experience program, the character keeps the two skills at their higher level for 8 years before they are permanent. (More rolls are required.)

Although the character gets the benefit of the two skill increases immediately, it takes two terms to make the increases permanent. This corresponds to the character getting about 1 skill per 4 years, just like character generation.

I suggest that any system that you make up take a similar long term approach to skills. Classic Traveller characters should very rarely get more than one skill level per four game years.

Remember, we're dealing with a narrow range of outcomes on a throw of 2D6. There's only 11 results. A +1 DM is a very strong modifier. A +3 DM is a HUGE modifier, making many throws almost automatic successes.

If you get Book 4, you'll find yet another method for training--this one directed at military operations. It gives you an example of the "other" types of training systems that you can devise for your game.

There's no reason why a character couldn't go take a semester long class (3 months, or so) to learn, first, Skill-0, then another semester to improve that to Skill-1. Although, if I did this in my game, I'd do like the TB Experience rules suggest and make that skill improvement temporary for 4 years or so. If the learning is not maintained, then the skill evaporates. I know that I haven't used limits from calculus for so long, I'd definitely have to re-learn how to use them if I need to. That's a real-world skill of mine that was non-permanent. I used to know, but now I'm skill-0 in that area, remembering the concept but not how to actually use a limit in a math equation.

 

[mike wightman]

The Int +Edu cap was introduced in later editions of the game. CT '77 basic set and '81 revised CT basic do not have this silly rule, and neither do mercenary or High Guard (in fact you can find a character resume in LBB4 mercenary that breaks this silly rule).

Characters already have a skill cap of sorts, since they are limited by the number of skips they can earn per term of service, to apply the silly skill cap rule penalises anyone who rolls a low Int or Edu.

I don't use it.

That said there is a way to increase your Edu during play to be equal to your Int (see the Experience section) which will give you some extra skill development potential.

 

[Supplement Four]

The Int +Edu cap was introduced in later editions of the game. CT '77 basic set and '81 revised CT basic do not have this silly rule, and neither do mercenary or High Guard (in fact you can find a character resume in LBB4 mercenary that breaks this silly rule).

I use it, and I quite like it. For one thing, it's a great penalty for a character with low INT and low EDU. Those characters cannot (and rightly so) have a lot of skills or skills that are too high.

Plus, in the Experience rules, a character can improve his EDU up to the level of his INT and no higher.

 

[aramis]

I don't find the Int+Edu limit silly. I find it a good balance. I've never played CT nor MT without it, in fact.

And, without it, advanced characters can get right silly.

 

[Golan2072]

A simple house-rule is that, for every four full years of in-game experience, the character gets one roll on a skill table of the career most appropriate to what he was doing (e.g. mercenary work = Army or Marines; space combat = Navy; trading = Merchant, exploration = Scout etc). The INT+EDU limit applies.

Why roll and not choose? In order to prevent characters from piling up skills way past 3. This way, at best, you have a 1/6 chance to get the skill you want. Also, experience is not a clear-cut learning process; if you want to study something particular, take a seminary (as detailed in the Experience rules), which takes years and money.

 

[Supplement Four]

Why roll and not choose? In order to prevent characters from piling up skills way past 3.

That's a very good comment, Omer. Just being Devil's Advocate, though, isn't the threat of being "overskilled" over stated? If the Ref sticks to a character getting about one skill per four game years, that's a hell of a long time for a player to wait.

If a player has Skill-1, let's say we raise him to Skill-2 immediately (similar to the Experience rules), but this raise is not permanent. And, it will take 12 years to get it to Skill-3 (raised to Skill-2 in first term, made permanent in term 2, raised to Skill-3 in third term...averages +1 skill per term).

That's one skill, raised to Skill-3, in 12 game years.

By this time, the character could easily be in his 40's by this time, subject to the critical ageing penalties.

So, although I like your idea, I'm not sure it is practical or necessary from a gaming standpoint.





On Ref Directed Skill Improvement....

I'm all for the Ref making up new methods for characters obtaining skill increases from sleep learning, to university classes, to Psi transfer, to genetic learning by means of a chemically coded shot. But, whatever the method used, I think that the Ref would be prudent to follow the spirit of both the character generation rules and the Experience rules.

More specifically, I think the Ref, regardless of the method, should keep skill improvement to about 1 skill per year (and some variance is welcome).



One method I used to use was copied (not exactly) from MegaTraveller: At the end of each session, I'd have each player put a hash mark next to the skill that was most important for the character for the night's gaming. This hash mark was called an AT or "Action Tally".

I also kept track of each character's birthdate on my Imperial calender. As the ship zoomed off in jump, and through the adventures, I'd keep track of each passing day by checking off days on the calendar.

On a character's birthdate, I'd allow the player to take the skill with the most AT's and make a roll to improve it one level. The roll was a hard one with a base 25% chance of success (thus, the character would improve about 1 skill level every four years, but there is some variance in there for lucky rolls).

Alternatively, if the player wanted a different skill improved, or if he wanted a new skill or to raise an attribute, he could attempt that, but the throw was harder.

Also on the character's birthday, all other ATs are lost, and the process starts again.

In the end, the character gets an improvement about once ever term.





The CT Experience Method....

I like how the CT method works. You get a chance for two immediate skill increases straight out of character generation (if you make the required rolls). You can drop these at any time, then try for something new (IIRC, you've got to wait a year between attempts).

So, you see some fluid skills, going up and down, over the course of a character's career.

 

[Golan2072]

That's a very good comment, Omer. Just being Devil's Advocate, though, isn't the threat of being "overskilled" over stated? If the Ref sticks to a character getting about one skill per four game years, that's a hell of a long time for a player to wait.

I was looking at it from a game-world PoV, not from a specific campaign's POV. The way I see it, let's say people fully retire from adventuring at the age of 70 (I'm keeping anagathics out of this discussion for the ease of explanation). Assume they get one skill point per 4 years both during their career; that's 13 "terms" and 13 skill-points. Given the ability to choose, you'll see the world full with people (mostly NPCs) with skill-5's and above. Given the ability to develop your main skill almost indefinitely, why won't each and every NPC hone one skill to perfection over his career lifetime?

The reason is that you can't simply focus one one thing unless you're taking a sabbatical off your career; the average civilian NPC will have approximately 13 skill-points by the retirement age of 70, distributed among many skills. That's below the average limit of 14 (INT 7 + EDU 7). Random rolls prevent a plague of experts from taking over your universe.

 

[Supplement Four]

I was looking at it from a game-world PoV, not from a specific campaign's POV. The way I see it, let's say people fully retire from adventuring at the age of 70 (I'm keeping anagathics out of this discussion for the ease of explanation). Assume they get one skill point per 4 years both during their career; that's 13 "terms" and 13 skill-points. Given the ability to choose, you'll see the world full with people (mostly NPCs) with skill-5's and above. Given the ability to develop your main skill almost indefinitely, why won't each and every NPC hone one skill to perfection over his career lifetime?

The reason is that you can't simply focus one one thing unless you're taking a sabbatical off your career; the average civilian NPC will have approximately 13 skill-points by the retirement age of 70, distributed among many skills. That's below the average limit of 14 (INT 7 + EDU 7). Random rolls prevent a plague of experts from taking over your universe.

Well I like the idea, and it sure eliminates the bookkeeping I used to do with the AT method I described.

What about this: Every year, on the character's birthday, the player picks a skill that he'd like to have for his character. At the end of four years, the player has picked four skills (with Ref approval, of course) and listed them on the chart.

The Ref completes the chart by adding two more skills that are story or character related, from his point of view. It is OK to repeat skills already on the list, but only the Ref can do this (not the player--the player must pick four different skills).

At the end of four gaming years, a skill chart is created that looks like this:

1. Player Skill Choice Year 1
2. Player Skill Choice Year 2
3. Player Skill Choice Year 3
4. Player Skill Choice Year 4
5. Ref Skill Choice 1
6. Ref Skill Choice 2

The player rolls the skill, and the process begins anew, in a year, when the player again makes his skill choice (on his character's birthday) for the first slot on the chart.



What I like about this is that a player's focus may change after a long period of gaming (4 game years can take a long while to play out), yet the chart still reflects that character's interests balanced over the time period.

What I don't like, of course, is the bookkeeping, but it should be a bit hassle to jot down the player's skill choice on the Imperial Calender in the box for the day of the character's birthday.



That's a pretty neat system. I like it.

 

[Ebon Pharos]

Thank you all for the help. I am sure I will have a lot more questions. I Understand the Int plus Education cap. I am a Paraeducator. Thank you again, of I have any more questions I will ask. If this goes well and I can get my game up and running then I will buy the traveller book. Just right now I can not justify a purchase on something that I MAY do.

 

[Supplement Four]

@Ebon Pharos

I suggest that you do two things before you start your Classic Traveller game. First, read every skill in Book 1 and note the throws and modifiers.

Second, check out the link in my sig named Rule 68A. Read through this entire thread (not just the Rule, but other people's comments--I just posted twice to that thread discussing other methods, outside of the Rule, that Ref's can use to create task throws on the spot).

You'll find a lot of good information there for a newbie, learning how to be good at creating your own throws in a heartbeat during a Classic Traveller game. Those who obtain a knack for it, I find, rarely go back to using a structured task system. They find them too stifling.

Later, after you've absorbed the atmosphere of Classic Traveller (it really isn't like a lot of modern games in many ways), check out the Reading a Subsector thread. I bet you'll find that interesting, too.

If you plan on combat in your game, the Personal Combat thread in my sig will definitely help you run good Classic Traveller fights.

 

[TheMule]

Great thread. I was recently wondering the same thing about gaining new skills. Good to see the general method is house-ruling!

 

[rancke]

I was looking at it from a game-world PoV, not from a specific campaign's POV. The way I see it, let's say people fully retire from adventuring at the age of 70 (I'm keeping anagathics out of this discussion for the ease of explanation). Assume they get one skill point per 4 years both during their career; that's 13 "terms" and 13 skill-points. Given the ability to choose, you'll see the world full with people (mostly NPCs) with skill-5's and above. Given the ability to develop your main skill almost indefinitely, why won't each and every NPC hone one skill to perfection over his career lifetime?

Allow players a free choice of skill, but it's the choice of a chance to gain a level of skill. Roll a D6; if you roll less than level you currently have, you don't get the skill increase. So getting to skill-3 is pretty safe -- only 1/6 risk of not getting from 2 to 3. Getting higher than that means running the risk of wasting a roll.

Alternatively (because having a 1 in 6 risk come out sucks), skill 1 to 3 cost one upgrade; 4-5 costs two upgrades (and you round down); skill 6 costs three upgrades, skill 7 costs 4 upgrades, and so on.


Hans

 

[Supplement Four]

Great thread. I was recently wondering the same thing about gaining new skills. Good to see the general method is house-ruling!

I would say that the general method of gaining new skills in CT is the one outlined in the Experience section of The Traveller Book.

 

[McPerth]

One method I used to use was copied (not exactly) from MegaTraveller: At the end of each session, I'd have each player put a hash mark next to the skill that was most important for the character for the night's gaming. This hash mark was called an AT or "Action Tally".

Having mainly refereed MT, I also use a variation of the MT rules for skill improving. The main diferences I house ruled were:

• One AT must be spent to roll for skill gaining/increasing
• The current level of the skill was used as a minus on the roll to improve the skill level

And for formal training (additional to what's told above):

• The time needed had multipliers according the specific skill (most academic skills had a multiplier of 2, to give you an example).
• The current level +1 was also used as multiplier.
• Both multipliers were cummulative, so trying to learn Medical 3 had a total multiplier of 6 (2 due to the spceific skill and 3 due to current level).
• The related skill was only used as multiplier if higher than the skill level you tried to achieve

 

[TheMule]

I would say that the general method of gaining new skills in CT is the one outlined in the Experience section of The Traveller Book.

Well perhaps I'm mistaking things but it seems like a lot of people have been discussing house-rules.

 

[Supplement Four]

Well perhaps I'm mistaking things but it seems like a lot of people have been discussing house-rules.

Sure. Me included.

 

[Patron Zero]

In the games I ran as a referee, I had a house-rule concerning 0-level skills that would be 'common-knowledge' for anyone crewing on a starship or simply traveling on such.

All due respect to Jack-of-all-trades to cover contingencies outside of a character's formal training-specialization but no need to fill slots for everyday-learned experiences-tasks required to function in a hi-tech setting.