A question about Ship Shares

[WarriorKnight]

I like that idea . in one of my earlier T.U.s I had a player shopping for used starships .....He took it for a test flight ,flushed the toilet and sent the ship ,into jump...........

I gotta remember that one. The ship they got in my new game is Merchant ship of my own design.It's 70 yrs old & it price was reduced 53 ship shares(94MCr.) it has the following "problems"
1.Vessel contains concealed smuggling compartments (I've been having fun stocking them & they haven't gound them yet. ; ) )
2.Vessel contains distrubing psionic echoes
3.Increase all maintance costs by 50%
4.Upgrade sensors to next best type
5.Libary computer contains secret or unusual information.(it has a copy of The Epic stored in it memory.)
6.Ship is a famous & respected trader w/a good reputation
7.Upgrade computer to next best type.

The ship(ISS Starsprite;400 ton Merchant) has been sitting in its hanger for 4yrs. The j2 drives can only do j1 until they can get them repaired or maintanced.The 2g manuver is still good.It became very aparent right from the start that it had been more than a "Merchant".Hull & structre reinforced;radiation shielding,& fast-cycle stealth jump drives that had seen a lot of wear.

The group came in w/18 shares between them.I started them on Sorel in Glisten at the slowly growning starport(a starport E made from Cutter modules[It 1st worked up Port Sorel using the GT:Moduler Cutter book for my old Traveller game.]).The Bank of Glisten owns the lien on The Starsprite.

 

[Merxiless]

We go with price / 100 = Value per share.

All crew are individually either 1) salaried per month, OR
2) on profit sharing, based on profit after fuel, maint, etc... based on their share per cent contributed.

Each month (100- PC Total Shares%) / 240 (I think that got it right, it's close, but my notes aren't near) is paid in "Rent".

Advance payments can be made to the financier.

Anyone who wants to go to profit sharing from salary can do so, by paying in "Value per share" for one share, increasing PC total shares % by one.

..Roughly...

 

[WarriorKnight]

I was looking through 760 Patrons & came across a"Ship Salesman" under the Spacer/Merchant Patrons who in the referee's info say he's "willing to sell ship shares on a "buy two,get one free"basis." Wonder what the cost would be to buy shares like that & do you have to use them on a certain type of ship? I took it in my games that it was credits you had saved up during your career,not something you had gone out & picked out like gift cards for your favorite store.

 

[Merxiless]

I always figured stuff like that was game fluff.

100 shares per ship, take the cost after age depreciation and use it accordingly.

It might happen out that it's a big ship / small ship whatever, but if shares are gotten out of a mustering out benefit, it relates to but doesn't have to be cash, could be won in a poker game, inherited, paid as service to a corporation, etc etc.

 

[bubbacleese]

Ship Shares what is the true value

So here we have our group and they pool their ship shares and come up with 35 ship shares. Thus 35% off (or 35% down payment) the total cost of the ship.

What ship? A little 25,000,000 little ship or a 485,000,000 big ship or some giant 2.5 billion credit ship?

Which brings me to my next point, character generation. In the rules if you reach rank 5 or 6 you get a +1 to your Benefit rolls. Is this an optional +1, as in you roll a 3 so you get your choice of either item #3 or item #4. If so, then I say to you all go Navy. My grid below may not have the items in the correct number slot but there are 2 two share slots and 1 one share slots. As shown below with an optional +1 to your die roll only a die roll of 4 does not gain you any ship shares; and a die roll of 1 only gains you 1 ship share. Everything else is 2 ship shares.

1.One Ship Share
2.
3.Two Ship Shares
4.
5.
6. Two Ship Shares
7.

So with a group of six players all rolling up Navy you will potentually get 70, 80 maybe even 90% of your ship paid off before you start the game.

So again, what ship? My 1% per share should not have a wide range of values, but apparently it does. In the book at the end of the character generation area under the bold heading Ship Shares is a short list of ships with the most expensive one being the Mercenarie Cruiser at 400 something million credits. Thus each of your shares would be worth 4 million credits.

Or the least expensive item in that list, which is valued at about 50 million credits, thus each share is only worth around 500,000 credits.

So a very smart group would build their own ship design based upon a 2000 ton hull valued at some massive 2.5 billion credits. Mortgage it using their 80% ship share ownership. Have it built and sell it as half price in just a day or two and with the massive profit buy a really nice ship of say 800 million or so that is fully paid off.

Of course the GM should not allow this but come on what is the true value of a ship share?

I'm going to step down off my soapbox now. Got a little worked up there.

 

[CosmicGamer]

what is the true value of a ship share?

"true" value? I'm not sure I'd say they have a set value other than a 1% reduction in the cost of a ship. Page 36 CRB

cannot trade ship shares for cash

Each ship share reduces the cost of the ship by 1%.

What ship? A little 25,000,000 little ship or a 485,000,000 big ship or some giant 2.5 billion credit ship?

Unless it's 100 ship shares, someone needs to approve the loan. The more expensive the ship the bigger the loan. Enter the GM. Why not have the players role play their characters forming a business plan and getting pre approval for a mortgage then shopping for their ship. Even if the players do have 100 ship shares, the book is vague enough as to what they are.

contracts, credit ratings, savings, and favors

So it's entirely up to the GM to decide the "true" value of these and tell the players what ship(s) they can use the shares on. For example, if for some strange reason players want their rogue characters with some ship shares to get a lab ship... sorry, Johny "The Club" will only help you out if you are getting a corsair from his cousin "Jump Drive" Vinny.

In the rules if you reach rank 5 or 6 you get a +1 to your Benefit rolls. Is this an optional +1, as in you roll a 3 so you get your choice of either item #3 or item #4.

Good question. Based on my current understanding of the rules it would be totally up to the GM to decide because the wording of the rules is unclear. As a GM using the default system, I'd assume all rolls are using the +1 unless the player states otherwise prior to rolling. If using the Select Skills alternate character generation rules, I'd let the player decide if they are using the +1 after rolling the dice.

 

[saundby]

Yeah, TMB has ship shares having variable value depending on the ship. It's pretty confusing. I use each as having a value of 1MCr. (as Aramis mentioned, this was how it was in playtest), and instead of "bonus shares" for older ships, older ships are cheaper (at least the sticker price is cheaper, no guarantees from the seller on what additional costs may crop up!)

The TMB system is trying to give the ref a lot of flexibility for putting the players in the ship they want in the game. Personally, I prefer a system on paper that is more straightforward and less subject to being gamed (or munchkined.) If a ref wants the players to have a ship, there are plenty of ways to get them into the ship without using a complex sliding scale shares mechanism with "bonuses" and so on.

Certainly any ref worth their salt can come up with a better story for getting a ship to the players, even if it's the prior full owner signing it over because the party showed him kindness in his final hour of life.

Fortunately, it's easy for any ref to simplify the system and do just that. Though I always recommend starting a new party out with too little. Then they really appreciate what they have when they get more ship. Then you let them discover the operating costs of that luxurious new battlewagon.

 

[bubbacleese]

Good. Your two responses confirms that I was reading everything, and reading everything correctly. (Something I have a hard time doing )

We are a few gaming sessions into our campaign when one player realized the character he had created was not something he wanted to play and we bumped into the "Wow, you can get a LOT of shares going Navy" issue and I wanted to ask the experts.

Thanks for you help.

 

[McPerth]

Another flaw I see in the ship share system is the lack of ruling about down payment.

Imagine my character is a Marine, he receives TAS benefit twice, so the seccond time is exchanged by 2 ship shares. Does that mean I've made my down payement and the monthly payements are at 98%? Quite powerful a mustering out...

If you need 20 ship shares to make your dawn payment, then a merchant (or noble, or belter...) must obtain it 4 times to have his ship, the balance goes to the other side...

On the other hand, If you play a group of 6-8 people who elect mechant career, there's a sizable possibility that hey end up with so many shares to have a relatively powerful ship (let's say a 600 dton MGT version of the type M lineer, or even more powerful...) and having to pay an afordable montly payment.

 

[bubbacleese]

Like it was said above by reading between the lines (and directly in some other lines) it is all up to the GM to moderate these things. What is in the book at best is just a guideline.

 

[rancke]

Like it was said above by reading between the lines (and directly in some other lines) it is all up to the GM to moderate these things. What is in the book at best is just a guideline.

The thing is, rules are supposed to provide more solid guidelines than that. If all they say is "make up your own", then I can do that without paying for a rulebook. Rules are always just guidelines (unless you're going to participate in some sort of tournament play).


Hans