Accelerator guns?

[BlackBat242]

If Traveller incorporates "smart bullets" we can take them into account; however, there is no mention of those or any other form of guided projectile, heads-up display, or correcting gunsight in the canonical discription.

"Electronic sights" are in book 1, and can be installed on virtually all weapons, giving a +4 DM "to hit". I see nothing in Book 4 which disallows them.


Your sentence is troubling, as you seem to be saying "if it isn't specifically mentioned in the books it cannot be invented or allowed in the game"... I hope this isn't your attitude.

If it is, then I sincerely pity the crews in the ships in your TU, as there is no mention in the rules of blankets, pillows, mattresses, or any counterpart to these... therefore they are sleeping on bare bed-frames with nothing to rest their heads on.



As others have mentioned, one of Traveller's strengths is its design, which allows for new things which fit into the general system to be created and incorporated... especially when our TL 7-8 society already has them or is developing them!

 

[Epee]

Not at all. I have a great dislike for RPG refs that "disallow" creativity on the part of their players. I also don't doubt that you can, canonically, add various forms of optical sights to pretty much any gun. However, what I was looking for was, since my Traveller ownership is limited to CT, any later addition's possible explanation as to how the darn thing works beyond, "it starts out slow and gets fast. It is selective fire with a 15 round magazine..."

Like all the worthies sounding in here I don't see how you can accomplish that and produce little recoil within the discription given without using some sort of rocket boost; and that opens other concerns which the rules' description does not mention as standard equipment.

 

[Carlobrand]

...If it is, then I sincerely pity the crews in the ships in your TU, as there is no mention in the rules of blankets, pillows, mattresses, or any counterpart to these... therefore they are sleeping on bare bed-frames with nothing to rest their heads on ...

Where does it mention bed-frames?:devil:

 

[BlackBat242]

Where does it mention bed-frames?:devil:

:rofl:

I suppose those rectangular things in the staterooms in the official floor plans could be boxes filled with sand (for Aslan passengers).

 

[Blue Ghost]

Some Gyrojet handguns were issued on a trial basis to a few Special Forces NCOs during the Vietnam War.

Yeah, those ones. I saw some footage of them on Youtube, probably vintage training film from the US Army. They seemed to work like regular ammo.

 

[Epee]

Yeah, those ones. I saw some footage of them on Youtube, probably vintage training film from the US Army. They seemed to work like regular ammo.

Pretty much; you load and insert the magazine like a regular semi-automatic handgun. Then, rather than drawing back a slide to chamber a round you cock a "hammer" which, rather than being located on the rear, has a cocking lever that moves in an arced cut in the side of the receiver. You can then set the safety. On pulling the trigger the hammer strikes a primer on the rear of the rocket and ignites the propellant and off you go! The backblast of the rocket is used to re-cock the "hammer" and another rocket pops up to take its place in the launch chamber; any remaining backblast is deflected from the shooter by the sheetsteel rear and top of what would be the slide.
The general feel of the weapon is like a sheetmetal capgun; very light and flimsy, although the metal body is in fact quite strong.

The backblast can be percieved by the shooter progressively filling each "barrel" vent in succession and the recoil is very drawn out. The rounds I fired went through a sheet steel can, an old, 1960's era automoble door, and a 16" diameter pine tree. Last seen it was still accelerating into the swamp. Each time it went through something substancial you could see it emerge and begin speeding up again.

I really don't remember how the rounds stripped from the magazine and entered the firing chamber. There may have been a seperate lever that initially fed the first round and this was powered by the backblast of subsiquent rounds.

 

[Dragoner]

Deathwind stuff sounds cool and some of the gyrojet weapons look very "sci-fi":

I think there can be a huge amount of different ammo as well, the pic giving a good idea.

 

[aramis]

Tge Accelerator is not a gyroget. It is a relative. . . But it is a recoil action or gas action firearm with a gyroget-like rocket in place of the slug. Only way to get the ROF mentioned without using a motor. It goes "Bang-wheeeewwww". . .

Real slugs with full charges would probably break the spring.…

 

[saundby]

Aramis, was the real world DARPA (or ARPA? I think that was around Viet Nam draw-down time) gun you're referring to the 12ga. AAI "submachine gun" that fired a round out at about 450-500fps that then had a rocket fire about 20ft after leaving the barrel?

Bigger than 6mm, but I seem to recall someone at a test range lamenting they got cut off on the work. They'd planned to bring the system down to a more conventional bore size for a submachine gun.

 

[aramis]

Aramis, was the real world DARPA (or ARPA? I think that was around Viet Nam draw-down time) gun you're referring to the 12ga. AAI "submachine gun" that fired a round out at about 450-500fps that then had a rocket fire about 20ft after leaving the barrel?

Bigger than 6mm, but I seem to recall someone at a test range lamenting they got cut off on the work. They'd planned to bring the system down to a more conventional bore size for a submachine gun.

May have been. I don't have the citations to hand, because I was told about the project by a cousin who worked on the project. (He later went to the M1A3 team...)

I've also seen some old Pop-Sci or Pop-Mech articles on it.

 

[Epee]

An accelerator round for shotguns would seem to be slam-dunk accessory for the Traveller armory. Of course it would have to be a manually operated shotgun due to the low energy produced internally and in zero-G that in itself could be a problem.

 

[Kaeto]

Pretty much; you load and insert the magazine like a regular semi-automatic handgun. Then, rather than drawing back a slide to chamber a round you cock a "hammer" which, rather than being located on the rear, has a cocking lever that moves in an arced cut in the side of the receiver. You can then set the safety. On pulling the trigger the hammer strikes a primer on the rear of the rocket and ignites the propellant and off you go! The backblast of the rocket is used to re-cock the "hammer" and another rocket pops up to take its place in the launch chamber; any remaining backblast is deflected from the shooter by the sheetsteel rear and top of what would be the slide.
The general feel of the weapon is like a sheetmetal capgun; very light and flimsy, although the metal body is in fact quite strong.

The backblast can be percieved by the shooter progressively filling each "barrel" vent in succession and the recoil is very drawn out. The rounds I fired went through a sheet steel can, an old, 1960's era automoble door, and a 16" diameter pine tree. Last seen it was still accelerating into the swamp. Each time it went through something substancial you could see it emerge and begin speeding up again.

I really don't remember how the rounds stripped from the magazine and entered the firing chamber. There may have been a seperate lever that initially fed the first round and this was powered by the backblast of subsiquent rounds.

I have also fired a Gyrojet. And the hammer did not hit the primer. It hit the nose of the projectile forcing it back on a fixed firing pin, igniting the thrust charge. The projectile then on it's way out the barrel overrode the hammer recocking it. The rocket blast powered nothing other than the projectile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

 

[mike wightman]

An accelerator round for shotguns would seem to be slam-dunk accessory for the Traveller armory. Of course it would have to be a manually operated shotgun due to the low energy produced internally and in zero-G that in itself could be a problem.

Why not just use a metal storm arrangement of stacked rounds fired by electrical ignition.

http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/83/167/

 

[aramis]

Why not just use a metal storm arrangement of stacked rounds fired by electrical ignition.

For the same reasons it's not being used in the real world except in very specialized situations: hard to impossible to reload, nearly impossible to recover from a jam, and very limited ammunition capacity.

Metalstorm is great for certain extreme edge cases... but it's not a good general purpose system.

 

[mike wightman]

This isn't the real world though.

It's a couple of TLs from now so such issues are solved.

 

[aramis]

This isn't the real world though.

It's a couple of TLs from now so such issues are solved.

doubtful... They're inherent flaws of the mode. Metalstorm is a niche solution in search of a problem.

Same for gyrojets. The lack of recoil is not made up for by the low muzzle velocities and accuracy at range issue... Which is inherent in a slow moving projectile in atmosphere.

Accelerator rounds have a wider niche, but really are best as an ammo choice rather than a dedicated weapon. Again, due to speed issues, accuracy suffers, but the powder launch mitigates that speed issue (and its attendant accuracy issue) and makes it suitable for close-in defense... Barely. The ability to use them in extant shotguns and revolvers will be their big selling point... Dedicated rifles will use them for the LMG role, as the much lighter action for the low powder charge can cycle faster, and volume makes up for accuracy.

the issues of all three are inherent to the platform.

 

[Epee]

I have also fired a Gyrojet. And the hammer did not hit the primer. It hit the nose of the projectile forcing it back on a fixed firing pin, igniting the thrust charge. The projectile then on it's way out the barrel overrode the hammer recocking it. The rocket blast powered nothing other than the projectile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

And you, sir, are absolutely right! That shows what 35 years will do to a human's memory...


The "Metal Storm" concept is little different from the "Roman Candle" or "Sequential Charge" concept attempted in the 15th and 16th centuries. Modern electronic ignition makes the Metal Storm far more reliable but, if a charge fails to ignite the results are even more devastating.

 

[saundby]

An accelerator round for shotguns would seem to be slam-dunk accessory for the Traveller armory. Of course it would have to be a manually operated shotgun due to the low energy produced internally and in zero-G that in itself could be a problem.

The rounds I'm aware of leave the muzzle at about 450fps or so. That'd be enough energy for an action built to function with it. Heck, the action could be a decent chunk of the recoil management for a system designed for zero-g/low-g friendly operation.

Personally, I'd rather have a bit of recoil and a semi-auto action in zero-g or on an asteroid, than have to stroke a pump. (At least I think so-never had a chance to try it out, of course. )

We gotta get the Orion out to an asteroid for some practical tests.

 

[Dragoner]

IIRC it is the mass of the projectile that is the main determinant for the recoil cycled action, gas is 90% vented and the apertures to cycle the action are very small.

 

[aramis]

The rounds I'm aware of leave the muzzle at about 450fps or so. That'd be enough energy for an action built to function with it. Heck, the action could be a decent chunk of the recoil management for a system designed for zero-g/low-g friendly operation.

Personally, I'd rather have a bit of recoil and a semi-auto action in zero-g or on an asteroid, than have to stroke a pump. (At least I think so-never had a chance to try it out, of course. )

We gotta get the Orion out to an asteroid for some practical tests.

Semi-auto shotguns generally have less felt recoil than a pump, as well; the action absorbs some of the recoil, and turns it into work, and spreads some more of it out over a longer period.

But they also have a flat out minimum energy. A 2.5" shell wouldn't work a buddy's 4" nitromag capable semi-auto 12ga. He didn't have a weak enough recoil spring.