All Things Vargr

[Condottiere]

Luckily, I'm not trying to map out Vargr history, just how Vargr institutions would likely be affected by Vargr psychology as I understand it.

Have their been Alexandrian Vargr? Undoubtedly, but most died young and unknown, the remainder probably spent a great deal of time trying to consolidate their gains, which means creating institutions that ensured the continuity of their legacy.

The Vargr remind me a great deal of the Moties.

In fact, it's even stated that they practice population control to avoid breeding themselves to death, though that's probably more prevalent in the settled areas.

Then you have the Masters who appear to control policy, depending on who manages to convince a majority to support him, while every other Master is probably actively figuring out how to can take advantage of this, or biding their time to pull off, if temporary, political coup.

While the Vargr seem against specialized sub-species, you do have functions like Mediators and technicians who seem to have a natural flair for their callings.

There is an instability in Vargr politics that necessarily touches every aspect of their society and culture. To maintain stability within instability would require the capability to recognize when to allow the steam to escape rather than build up to an explosion, and have the timing to retire gracefully from public life.

Despite the pack mentality, Vargr individuality would have to occasionally assert itself, if only to ensure the survival of the species. Individuals will occasionally want to assert control over their environment against acknowledged authority, and find like minded compatriots. That's why i think that fairly stable Vargr political entities do have some form of democratic expression.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

Vargr: Span of Control and Alexander the Great Dane

Exactly how far can an individual Vargr exert dominance? Generally, about how far he can reach.

This made me chuckle... Thanks for the comedic interlude, Condo.

I think Gypsy Comet AKA Jim had it right. The Vargr are the only major race besides humanity that is "broadly multicultural". Great phrase. Thanks, Jim!

I think Jim may have misspoken though, the Hivers are past the point of "broadly multicultural" and nearer to the point of "anarchy" or "barely organized chaos", but it somehow works to them to the befuddlement of any Traveller human, or, for that point, most of us Traveller fans in the here and now.

Another phrase I've heard is that the others races (...not Humaniti or the vargr) are "violently monocultural" or they don't brook other way of doing things very well. They are past the point of "ultra-conservative" by human standards. Liberalism or progressivism, as we understand it in broad terms (...the desire to change society), doesn't exist very well for those other major races (Zhodani, Vilani, Aslan, K'kree, etc.).

I really need to study the new four-digit T5 cultural descriptors and see how that works out with the psychological-cultural profiles that I have created for xeno-sophonts. I love the "GURPS Space" and "GT First In" ideas.

I have been compiling information on the Vargr for several years now and the term, "chaotic" or "balkanized" seems to best apply. Stable Vargr societies are the exception, not the rule. The Vargr have an even tougher time than Humaniti unifying and forming consistent lasting political structures. Asimov would love it and have a "Mule" directing pyscho-historical studies.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[rancke]

I have been compiling information on the Vargr for several years now and the term, "chaotic" or "balkanized" seems to best apply. Stable Vargr societies are the exception, not the rule. The Vargr have an even tougher time than Humaniti unifying and forming consistent lasting political structures.

I agree completely, but it's evidently not impossible for them. They may also have coping mechanisms that work better for them than they would for humans. I haven't read up on Vargr and Vargr societies lately, but ISTR mention of overlapping territories and separate enclaves that has rival governments live at peace with each other.


Hans

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Span of Control and Big Boxer Is Watching You

Vargr don't like to be micro-managed; they like even less to be spied on.

At some point, the Vargr proletariat will overthrow their corrupt and degenerate aristocracy, and after a healthy round of decapitations, if they don't first find a wall to line them up, or they run out of street lamp posts, the revolution will cannibalize itself, and the less charismatic, but more organized chief of administration emerges from the shadow and takes over.

It's realized fairly soon that soldier committees don't work, though one reason they're promoted early on was to cloud the chain of command between the pack leaders and their pack members, as pack leaders are seen as prime counter-revolutionary candidates, or even eventual regime dissidents.

In order to extend the central committee's control over the military, every pack gets assigned a political officer. Political officers are different from chaplains, as chaplains are members of the pack, whereas the nature of the role that the political officer plays in the civilian control of the military, means that he can't be.

The political officer is nominally second in command, which the NCOs resent. They are to keep track of the purity of the unit's ideology, keep the pack updated on the latest communiques from the central committee, and measure loyalty to the central committee, and have the authority to countermand the pack leader's orders.

Only a great fear of the central committee's internal security apparatus keeps pack members from fragging political officers, and the suspicion that informers are widespread.

The normal recourse Vargr have, namely challenging the hierarchy in order to replace it, or emigrating, aren't viable option.

A challenge is considered dissent, and dissenters are considered enemies of the state, counter-revolutionaries or foreign agents, and are dragged off to the local counter intelligence headquarters for a debriefing, that is they remove your briefs and attach electrodes.

If you're still alive, you'll be reassigned to some pack doing important but dangerous work in a less than salubrious environment.

Applicants for immigration and their families tend to find themselves in the same place.

Such regimes don't really last long, since either the Vargr will revolt, or the economy collapses, which is more likely, since Vargr thrive in a free market, and are even less inclined to contribute to the GDP of a state where they don't see their efforts rewarded.

And yet, initiative is discouraged, so that soldiers do the minimal possible, while officers have to continuously review all their actions, so that there is little chance of misinterpretation by the representatives of the central committee. Band commanders and higher command live in a state of uncertainty, in the event that they are denounced or their actions and orders seem to threaten the central committee.

 

[kilemall]

Vargr: Span of Control and Alexander the Great Dane

Alexander the Great Dane? You killin me here!!!!!!!!!! LOLLLLLLLLLLL!

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Militia Packs

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of a Vargr to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Vargr communities tend to find themselves vulnerable to armed attack, usually from others of their own race, which makes the establishment of a force capable of armed resistance somewhat of a priority. This actually satisfies the agendas of differing interest groups, so that a militia pack not only serves a community's self defence needs, it also creates another armed force to counter the threat of a military coup from the professional military.

Vargr militia have access to military grade weaponry, and as realistic training as is possible in their role as weekend warriors. As part of a unified territorial defence, their packs would be integrated into the military combat groups, giving the combat group local knowledge, as well as reinforcing it's numbers.

Militia packs tend to choose their leader and NCOs from retired soldiers.

While governments sponsor militia packs as a counterweight to the professional military, and as a more cost effective way to defend their territories than maintaining large numbers of full time troops, the Vargr electorate view the maintenance of militia packs as not only a way to defend their communities, but also as an insurance against the possibility of a central government authority becoming too intrusive or even tyrannical.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Corsair Packs

Corsair pack size would depend very much on the capacity of their respective ships, though they certainly could figure some way to squeeze more in.

For the generic four hundred tonne corsair, specialists seem to number ten, and ship's troops, a term I would use loosely in this case, are about fourteen, though in an emergency, the dividing line between troops and specialists would probably be very blurry.

So we get to a pack sized around twenty four, the lower end of a military pack,

Despite this corsair packs operate with a number of advantages over a military pack.

First of all, they have an armed transport, plus any other space or planetary combat platforms they can squeeze in. As such, they have an inherent close to long range heavy weapons support, depending how the pack leader had positioned the weapons platforms.

Second, corsair pack members have greater opportunities to upgrade their personal armour and weaponry, with little regard to uniformity, though their style of operations would favour fairly light infantry. Since corsair pack members tend to blow their ill gotten gains on wine, women and song, that may not be an issue.

Third, their officers tend to be skilled, charismatic and lucky, through sheer Darwinian pressure eliminating those that aren't.

One detail that has to be pretty controversial is the assertion that ten percent of the Vargr are corsairs. If that was the case, I rather doubt there would be much left of Vargr civilization, not to mention that the Imperium would be exterminating entire Vargr planets.

The Vargr packs would also be starving, since they would outnumber their victims.

Now, ten percent of Vargr have at one time or another been on a corsair raid might be more accurate.

 

[rancke]

One detail that has to be pretty controversial is the assertion that ten percent of the Vargr are corsairs. If that was the case, I rather doubt there would be much left of Vargr civilization, not to mention that the Imperium would be exterminating entire Vargr planets.

Not to mention that the description of the Kforuzeng, said to be the biggest corsair band in Uthe subsector, in the original writeup of corsairs in JTAS21 makes them less powerful at their height than a single light cruiser (couple of dozen ships totalling less than 30,000T). Where is this assertion from?


Hans

 

[Condottiere]

If you have five trillion Vargr, and ten percent were active as corsairs, that's five hundred billion. If each corsair ship requires an average of fifty personnel, that's ten billion corsair ships roaming around, looking for loot.

They'd descend like locusts on the Imperium, after having cannibalized their own space.

Even if the number is reduced by a tenth, you still have a billion corsair ships looking for trouble.

That would be a tonnage of around four hundred billion, or eight hundred thousand Tigresses.

If thirty five small ships constitute a Vargr corsair great power, actual Vargr population figures may need to be lowered.


Getting past that, you might assume that local or regional Vargr navies can't match a fleet of thirty five small ships, and yet, if you can talk a bunch of Vargr into impromptu raids into the Imperium, how much easier has to be to convince them to arm their traders to defend their homes, or build up a network of planetoid fortresses and man them?

The Vargr corsairs effectiveness, at least against other Vargr, might be due to the inevitability of a more formalized organization and command structure, which may be alien to normal Vargr.

What alienates normal Vargr from a remote authority, might be because it becomes more formal, with little opportunity to question or challenge it.

Vargr corsairs might become more effective as a fighting force the larger they become, as long as the centre of the leadership holds, since it must be fighting against a centrifugal libertarian force.

Their ships might be able to coordinate more and carry out complex manoeuvres and tactics, whereas the less experienced Vargr military is much less sophisticated in either tactics or strategy.

The band in question seems to have a dedicated (Imperium Marine) regimental sized and organized dedicated ground force, more or less heavily equipped and well trained.

I suspect that the corsair fleet tries to lure away the mobile defence forces, and then drops the ground forces on strategic targets, forcing a surrender, and being as well equipped, if not more so, than any Vargr military, and probably better trained and motivated, while keeping the initiative, means that they'll likely face inferior forces, and with decapitation strikes, and possibly taking significant hostages, the defending Vargr forces can't coordinate and may be hesitant to attack in any event.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Military Corps

The military corps may be the largest possible, formally organized military unit the Vargr can maintain. A Vargr army may be made up of any number of military corps, but there's no support or real command structure to coordinate them, beyond being given some vague objectives, and told as regards to logistics, they're on their own.

A military corps would be led, or maybe more accurately, coordinated by a Marshal, who rather preoccupied finding and securing supplies for his troops, while schmoozing with his civilian masters.

A corps may be more regionally based, if there is more than one within a Vargr nation state, and supply bands for unified task forces.

Beyond the military corps, there is no unified military command structure for the Vargr, except for some Great Leader, whose charisma is sufficient for every military unit and pack within his sphere of influence to follow him.

Military corps tend to be self contained, all-arms formations, possibly even having organic space and starships, though civilian authorities tend to carefully keep these separate from any ground forces specialized units, preferring to establish a separate institution and chain of command.

Being extraordinarily large, does not necessarily make a military corps an effective military force.

Considering how effective corsairs seem to be, a military corps may be the only professional soldiers on a planet, though it's combat groups may integrate with local militia packs.

Ground forces would tend to be separate from what we would consider other military branches, though corsairs may be the expression of the perfect integration of a unified Vargr military.

 

[maksimsmelchak]

I agree completely, but it's evidently not impossible for them. They may also have coping mechanisms that work better for them than they would for humans. I haven't read up on Vargr and Vargr societies lately, but ISTR mention of overlapping territories and separate enclaves that has rival governments live at peace with each other.
Hans

Completely agreed, but still the exception to the rule.

I've also been updating the Vargr file at the Wiki, adding detail and compiling various data. Please check it out here:

[http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Vargr ]

It would be good to have other creative minds working on that file.

Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Span of Control or Mastiff and Commander

A ship's captain is god of all he surveys. Or he sits at his right hand. Whatever he is, a Vargr ship's captain is more than just a pack leader.

There can be only one leader aboard any ship, as the consequences of disaster, especially in cases of hesitancy, outweigh any of the usual customs that would allow a Vargr to question or challenge authority, since not only one or two individuals might be lost, but the entire pack could be endangered.

A small ship's crew might actually feel more like a family, with the Captain acting the part of a patriarch; a larger trader could be treated like an extended family, rather than what you would expect in an normal pack. While discipline might then be more relaxed, it would also be much harder to mount a leadership challenge.

Vargr ship crews soon develop multiple skills to keep their ships running, since they may not entirely trust ground crew to maintain their ships, unless they are somehow associated in some way.

Promotion for both captain and the ship pack would be a better ship, or if they're especially sentimental, modernization of their current one.

Outside an incapability of the Vargr industrial base to manufacture capital class ships and related equipment, there may be a psychological reason that Vargr have few large ships, that ship crews are actually packs, and the optimal number a pack leader can control happens to be between twenty five to forty Vargr.

For an elite commercial captain, a two thousand tonne starliner might be about as much as he can be expected to manage, with a fifty Vargr crew.

In addition to the normal crew that specialize running the ship, a corsair captain would also have to manage the ship's troops; he might not be expected to lead them personally, this lieutenancy would be eagerly sought after by the more ambitious of the pack members, but he certainly needs to be able to dominate them. A thousand tonne corsair could be reaching the limits of that.

Anything larger, might be the personal flag ship of a corsair band commander, who could juggle multiple packs on board his ship, one keeping it running, one manning the weapons, and a couple of close combat specialized ones, who could be the commodore of a corsair flotilla of anywhere between five to twenty five smaller ships.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Maritime Navy

Vargr history probably bears more relation to mythology and folklore, as databases are constantly corrupted and altered to present a version calculated to support the current regime's ideology and legitimacy, outside of how much is lost due to constant upheaval and political instability.

There is little doubt that Vargr armies have experienced countless of Thermopylaeii, Waterloos, Gettysburgs, Sommes and Kursks. But did they ever manage Salamisii, Trafalgars, Jutlands and Midways?

Lair is fifty percent water, and it's oceans, sea, lakes and rivers would have served as the transport arteries of any number of empires. Transport ships wouldn't need large crews, and could easily be handled by a single pack. I don't see Vargr as being overly enthusiastic rowers, so there would be an early adoption of sails.

Unfortunately, warships would need more bodies, and an examination of Royal Navy history, tends to to indicate, a lot of careful organization and preparation, which also probably sparked off the industrial revolution in Britain.

For the Vargr to progress technologically, someone might actually have built up a complex war machine, and sustained it long enough to build an industrial base to achieve a critical mass of technological breakthroughs that could be co-opted by the civilian sector, Vargr being very much into free trade and enterprise.

For the Vargr, labour saving devices has less to do with making you work less, but cutting down the number of people required to accomplish a particular task, to the point that it could comfortably be done by a single pack.

Considering who we're talking about, I'd imagine that longships would have been the perfect vessel for the Vargr, being practically able to go anywhere, and emphasizes their preferred method of dealing with the enemy, up close and personal. You could also pack it with one to three packs, which the run of the mill pack leader might be able to deal with.

Ramming might be exciting, but Vargr might consider it being more effort than it's worth, and denies them close combat and the chance to capture, loot and sell a boat.

What ever form their navies took, the Vargr lost the institution and institutional memory as they emigrated to the stars, and instinctively created their space navies along the lines of their pack mentality as expressed in their corsair bands, probably being created early on as opportunistic Vargr discovered it's easier to raid newly formed colonies and steal what they wanted, rather than build up one of their own.

Having gone interstellar, modern maritime naval service hold little glamour for most Vargr, except those interested in law enforcement and chasing smugglers and those engaged in illegal fishing.

Warships requiring more than one pack are rare in a unified world; a balkanized one might maintain several competing more complex naval institutions, which may translate to a more complex space navy.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Span of Control and the Whippets of Mass Destructions

There has to be a scene that anyone reading Space Viking must make an impression on most readers, when they threaten to drop an atomic bomb on a city to prompt their victims to surrender faster.

I don't recall Vargr corsairs threatening to that on other Vargr, who wouldn't be from their pack, or even on humans, who wouldn't be of their race. Vargr might have a healthy fear of human retaliation, as the Imperium might send a punitive task force who'd chase them until they had wiped out that band, but what would stop them from dropping one on Vargr who wouldn't have the same resources, even if they had the resolve.

Vargr would have certainly discovered the atomic bomb, and likely have used them on each other. It might not even have happened in a general war, but one technically advanced nation making that breakthrough and deciding to use it to exert their dominance over other countries. Who naturally resisted. Again and again.

That experience may have traumatized the Vargr's collective consciousness.

A smoking hole in the ground both destroys loot and Vargr who could be dominated; the radiation could have caused mutations of their divinely perfect genes. Large stretches of land turned into waste.

The Vargr must have to the realization that building nuclear warheads were comparatively dirt cheap, and easily constructed, if the raw materials were available.

They may have completely outlawed first use of any atomic warhead within a planetary atmosphere, and on an undefended civilian target, one of the few rules that every Vargr follows.

 

[GypsyComet]

They may have completely outlawed first use of any atomic warhead within a planetary atmosphere, and on an undefended civilian target, one of the few rules that every Vargr follows.

Nukes are for losers, and no Vargr leader wants to be seen as a loser.

 

[Condottiere]

Vargr: Warship Packs

While Vargr navies may be extrapolations of Vargr corsair bands, perhaps even poor reflections, they do have one advantage over them if they do come into direct conflict.

The corsairs' instinct is to close and capture a prize, a Vargr warship might have a crew with the same instinct, but are trained to engage at long range, fully optimized for space combat, and a crew specialized in it, rather than a hybrid needing to fulfil both a space combat role, and act as an assault craft.

Not every Vargr warship needs to carry a Marine contingent, it's gunners can act as ship's troops, boarding party, and security should the need arise. That means a warship pack leader has a greater number of ship systems specialists in comparison to a corsair pack, and his pack can comfortably crew a larger and more heavily armed vessel.

The downside maybe that the more capable crew members might be tempted to desert to a more charismatic corsair pack leader, their instinct for raiding, and their highly prized skill sets ensuring them a high position in a corsair hierarchy, and guaranteeing an abundance of money, praise and appreciation, that a naval career would be more miserly with.

While civilian authorities might fear a coup from their ground forces, they fear wholesale desertion from their naval units, as an unscrupulous captain, or an ambitious crew member sparking off a mutiny, would suddenly be in control of a powerful weapons' platform, with an inherent mobility, who could then be in a position to go raiding an allied planet, or worse, raid his former employer.

Only the most trusted warship crews would be assigned to jump capable warships, with fleet commanders expected to personally supervise operations on the most powerful warships, together with Marine Packs that answer to him.

Warships crews are carefully vetted, and usually chosen from known loyalists.

 

[rancke]

The downside maybe that the more capable crew members might be tempted to desert to a more charismatic corsair pack leader, their instinct for raiding, and their highly prized skill sets ensuring them a high position in a corsair hierarchy, and guaranteeing an abundance of money, praise and appreciation, that a naval career would be more miserly with.

And all it will cost them is the loss of their family and friends, their packs, and their home world.

While civilian authorities might fear a coup from their ground forces, they fear wholesale desertion from their naval units, as an unscrupulous captain, or an ambitious crew member sparking off a mutiny, would suddenly be in control of a powerful weapons' platform, with an inherent mobility, who could then be in a position to go raiding an allied planet, or worse, raid his former employer.

If the crew of a ship representing a small fraction of a navy does decide to desert, it will head for some place far, far away where the risk of running into its former compatriots is sufficiently small to allow the crew to sleep at nights.


Hans

 

[Condottiere]

That, of course, is an interesting question, as to the number and composition of a Vargr Navy, considering that might be confined mostly to ships with crews of fifty or less.

 

[rancke]

That, of course, is an interesting question, as to the number and composition of a Vargr Navy, considering that might be confined mostly to ships with crews of fifty or less.

Fifty or less?!? A couple of thousand dT at most? No cruisers and battleships? Vargr navies comes in all sizes according to the GWP of their world/nation, of course. But given a high- or high-medium population to support it, why shouldn't a Vargr navy have ships ranging all the way up to battleship size?

Note that Rebellion Sourcebook features a 10,000T Vargr heavy¹ cruiser with a crew of 130 and a 30,000T battle cruiser with a crew of 930 (p. 78-79).

¹ So-called.​

Hans

 

[Condottiere]

I assume through maritime experience, the Vargr had to have at one time experienced the need to man ships of the line, dreadnoughts and aircraft carriers.

It has to be the Holy Grail of a corsair band leader to get hold of a spinal mount armed high tech cruiser.

But if a corsair band can threaten most Vargr polities, you have to consider that their capabilities to defend their planets has to be significantly weaker than the corsairs' capability to project their power, since the corsairs would be uninterested in excessive casualties.

There are probably many reasons that Vargr would like to keep crews pack sized, but one that may be less obvious is that if there are more layers of command, it may slow down their reaction time.