Alternative T5 VehicleMaker

[tjoneslo]

This is an alternative vehicle maker construction system to the VehicleMaker rules presented in the T5 Core Rules book. This set of rules uses some of the same concepts as the VehicleMaker rules and creates the same set of statistics.

This is divided into three posts due to post size limitations. Post 1 (this one) are the directions. Post 2 will have some of tables. Post 3 with have the rest of the tables. Following will be a few example vehicles.

Step 1 - Size : Select a overall size for your vehicle. This determines the base cost for the vehicle as well. The two bases size are Small or Large

Step 2 - Mission : Select a primary mission for your vehicle. The mission adjusts the base size and cost, and some mission selections include armor. Missions are: Recon, Passenger, Utility, Explorer, and Cargo.

Step 3 - Bulk : Select the relative size of your vehicle. The vehicle bulk determine the scale of capabilities as well. The bulkier the vehicle, the more components you can fit into the vehicle. See step 7 for components. The bulkier small vehicles are larger than the very light large vehicles. This is deliberate.

Step 4 - Motive : Motive determines both the manner in which the vehicle moves as well as the medium where it travels. The motive determines the base TL and speed for the vehicle. Choose between:
- Ground: Wheeled, Tracked, or Legged
- Flyers: Air Cushion, Lifter, LTA, Winged, or Grav
- Water: Ship or Submarine

Step 5 - Stage : Stage of technology development relative to the standard technology. Affects the size and cost. The values are from the Technology level stage effects table.
- Experimental, Prototype, Early,
- Standard, Basic
- Improved, Generic
- Modified, Advanced, Ultimate

Step 6 - Modifiers : Design modifiers add overall changes to the vehicle without affecting it basic size.

• Fast Design: Improvements to the engines and transmission to make the vehicle faster.
• VFast Design : Even more improvements to vehicle designs and ultimate engine tuning for absolute performance. Vehicles with VFast design can travel at supersonic speed. The design can have only one of Fast Design or VFast Design
• Sealed : Seals the vehicle against exterior atmosphere effects, including heat, cold. and un-breathable air. Provides air for crew and passengers as long as the power lasts. Sealed Explorer vehicle include an air-lock.
• Off-road: Ground vehicles can now travel off-road. Winged flyers no longer require an airport to land.
• Amphibian: Ground vehicles can also travel in water at speed - 2, Flyers can land on and take off from bodies of water, Winged Flyers can use water as a landing strip.
• Slow Flight : For Winged flyers only, the addition of STOL capabilities allow for a minimum flight speed of 4 (30kph)
• Hovering Flight: For Winged flyers only. Re-configures the wing setup to allow a minimum flight speed of 0. May be rotary winged craft, vectored thrust, tilt rotors, etc.
• Luxury: Upgrade the interior for passenger and crew comfort. Increases Quality.

Step 7 - Components : After you have selected the Size, Mission, Bulk, Motive, Stage, and any Modifiers, add components. Each component add specific capabilities to the vehicle. You may install as many of any component up to the limit of the vehicle capacity.

The number of components you can add to a vehicle depends upon it's bulk.

• VLight : 4 Components
• Light : 6 Components
• Standard : 8 Components
• Heavy : 10 Components
• Vheavy : 12 Components

The components currently defined:

• Passenger : Add space to carry additional passengers or crew. In small vehicles this adds space for 1 person, in large vehicles space is for 5 to 7 people (assuming occupants are size 100 or less).
• Cargo : Add space to carry cargo. In Small vehicles, this carries 1/3 ton (about 300 kg). In large vehicles this carries 1 ton. Includes specific access for the cargo.
• Engine : Increases the size and power of the engine in the vehicle to give more performance. Each Engine component increases the speed of the vehicle by 1. A vehicle may install a maximum of 3 engine components.
• Weapons Mount : A mount for one or more weapons (Still incomplete)
• Manipulators : External robotic manipulators controlled by the operator (or one of the crew). (Still incomplete)
• Communications : A large, powerful two way communications system, including access for all crew and passengers.
• Vehicle Bay: Similar to a Cargo space, but specifically designed to hold and allow crew to access a smaller vehicle.
• Control System: An additional automated control system. With a communication system, allows the vehicle to be operated remotely. At TL 11+ allows the installation of a robotic brain for controlling the system as well (or instead).
• Lab System : A mounted set of equipment for performing analysis and scientific experiments.
• More Armor : Upgrades to the armor of the vehicle, including additional internal bracing, better life support and so on.
• Redundant systems: Add additional backup and auto-repair systems. If one or two other components in the vehicle take damage during combat the Redundant system keeps them working.
• Sensor Package: A set of sensors appropriate to the vehicle (Still incomplete)
• Endurance - Modules to increase the endurance of the vehicle. For each pair of endurance modules.

Calculating values:

• TL: Motive Selection determines base TL, modified by adding the values from other selections
• Size: Calculated in order: Size plus mission, then muliplied by bulk, then multiplied by stage.
• Speed: Motive selection determines base speed, adding the values from modifiers and components
• Load: Base load is 0, modified by adding values from the components
• Cost: Calculated by adding Size plus Mission, then multiplying by bulk, then adding motive, and component costs, and finally multiplying by the Stage cost multiplier.
• Armor: Add the armor (Armor, Cage, Flash, Rad, Sound, PSI, Insulated, and Sealed) values from the selected settings and component to determine the final values.

Damage Location Table

Once you have selected the components in the vehicle, place them in the Damage Location chart. The chart is
a standard Flux roll chart with three entries already filled:
-2 Base Engine
+0 Locomotion
+2 Base Engine

VLight vehicle have no entry for the +/- 4 or +/-5 values. Light vehicles have no entry for the +/-5 values,
Heavy vehicles have two entries for the +/-2 value (base engine plus another component). VHeavy vehicles have
two entries for the +/-2 value and the +/- 3 values

 

[tjoneslo]

Part 2: Tables

Table 1: Sizes

Size	TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)
Small		3			S	3
Large		10			L	10

Table 2: Missions

Mission	TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed	Note
Recon		-2			R	-1
Passenger		-1			P	-1
Utility		0			U	0	5	0	4	0	4	0	12	0
Explorer		1			E	2	15	10	10	10	10	0	20	20
Cargo		2			C	1	8	4	6	0	12	0	15	20

Table 3: Bulk

Bulk

TL

Tons

Speed

Load

Code

Cost (Kcr)

Armor

Cage

Flash

Rad

Sound

PSI

Insulated

Sealed

Note

Vlight

-1

0.33333

Vl

0.3333

4 Components

Light

-1

0.5

L

0.5

6 Components

Standard

0

1

S

0

8 components

Heavy

1

2

H

3

10 components

Vheavy

2

3

Vh

9

12 components

Table 4: Motive

Motive	TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed	Note
Wheeled	6		3		W	1									Ground
Tracked	7		2		T	2									Ground
Legged	10		0		Z	1									Ground
Air Cushion	8		4		ACV	2									Flyer
Lifter	9		1		L	2									Flyer
LTA	6		3		LTA	2									Flyer
Winged	7		6		W	3									Flyer
Grav	10		3		G	3									Flyer
Ship	5		2		S										Water
Sub	6		2		U	2	30							20	Water

Table 5: Technology Stage

Stage	TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)
Experimental	-3	2			Exp	10
Prototype	-2	1.5			Pro	5
Early	-1	1.5			Ear	2
Standard	0	1			Std	1
Basic	0	1			Bas	0.5
Improved	1	1			Imp	1
Generic	1	1			Gen	0.5
Modified	2	1			Mod	0.5
Advanced	3	0.75			Adv	2
Ultimate	4	0.75			Ult	3

Table 6 Modifiers

Modifiers

TL

Tons

Speed

Load

Code

Cost (Kcr)

Armor

Cage

Flash

Rad

Sound

PSI

Insulated

Sealed

Note

Fast Design

1

30

vFast Design

1

2

100

Sealed

2

10

20

Off-Road

25

Slow Flight

50

Winged Min speed =4

Hovering Flight

1

-1

75

Winged Min Speed =0

Amphibian

1

40

Luxury

50

 

[tjoneslo]

Part 3: Tables

Table 7 Modifiers

Components	TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed	Note
Passengers				1		2									1 for small, 7 for large
Cargo				1		1									1/3 ton for small, 1 ton for large
Engine			1			5									Max +3, then +1 / 2 modules
Weapons Mount				1		10									Mount for weapon (Size?)
Manipulators						50									lift 1/3 ton for small, 1 ton for large
Communication						20									Communications array.
Vehicle Bay						5									Holds 0 for small, 1/3 ton for large
Control System						20									Robot brain, remote control system
Lab System						10									Lab equipment/analysis for 1 (small), 3 (large)
More Armor						30	20	10	10	10	12	0	30	20	Depth -> 150m = p15, 500m=p50, 1000m=p100
Redundant Systems	1					60									Fixes 2 components on the fly
Base Engine	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Default Engine
Locomotion	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	Default Motive
Sensor Package						5									Sensor(s) approriate for the vehicle
Endurance	1			1		2.5									Installed in pairs to increase vehicle endurance

Table 8: Component Table

Standard	Component (-5)
Light	Component (-4)
Vlight	Component (-3)
	Component (-2)	Base Engine
	Component (-1)
	Component (0)	Locomotion
	Component (+1)
	Component (+2)	Base Engine
vLight	Component (+3)
Light	Component (+4)
Standard	Component (+5)
Heavy	Component (-2)
Heavy	Component (+2)
Vheavy	Component (-3)
VHeavy	Component (+3)

 

[tjoneslo]

Example: Air/Raft - The standard open topped grav vehicle. Space for 4 passengers, and a little cargo space.

	Type	Generic Small Light Utility Grav TL 10, KCr19.25
	Air/Raft		TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed
			10	1.5	5	1.333333		19.25	5	0	4	0	4	0	12	0
		Setting	TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed
	Size	Small	0	3	0	0	S	3
	Mission	Utility	0	0	0	0	U	0	5	0	4	0	4	0	12	0
	Bulk	Light	-1	0.5	0	0	L	0.5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Motive	Grav	10	0	3	0	G	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Stage	Generic	1	1	0	0	Gen	0.5	0
	Modifier1		0	0	0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Modifier2		0	0	0	0		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
			0	0	2	4	0	17	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
			TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed
Standard	Component (-5)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Light	Component (-4)	Engine	0	0	1	0	0	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Vlight	Component (-3)	Passengers	0	0	0	1	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (-2)	Base Engine	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (-1)	Engine	0	0	1	0	0	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (0)	Locomotion	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (+1)	Cargo	0	0	0	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (+2)	Base Engine	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
vLight	Component (+3)	Passengers	0	0	0	1	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Light	Component (+4)	Passengers	0	0	0	1	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Standard	Component (+5)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Heavy	Component (-2)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Heavy	Component (+2)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Vheavy	Component (-3)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
VHeavy	Component (+3)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

 

[David Johansen]

Cool, I know I've considered doing something similar with gunmaker. Because while I like the idea in principle but the results often feel off to me.

 

[tjoneslo]

Example 2: Research ATV - A large long endurance vehicle with space for four and endurance for four weeks of off road work.

	Type	Standard Large Standard Utility Wheeled with Sealed and Off-road TL 10, KCr51
	Explorer ATV		TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed
			10	10	5	6		51.00	5	0	4	0	4	0	22	20
		Setting	TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed
	Size	Large	0	10	0	0	L	10
	Mission	Utility	0	0	0	0	U	0	5	0	4	0	4	0	12	0
	Bulk	Standard	0	1	0	0	S	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Motive	Wheeled	6	0	3	0	W	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Stage	Standard	0	1	0	0	Std	1	0
	Modifier1	Sealed	0	0	0	0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	10	20
	Modifier2	Off-road	0	0	0	0	0	25	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
			4	0	2	6	0	23	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
			TL	Tons	Speed	Load	Code	Cost (Kcr)	Armor	Cage	Flash	Rad	Sound	PSI	Insulated	Sealed
Standard	Component (-5)	Endurance	1	0	0	1	0	2.5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Light	Component (-4)	Endurance	1	0	0	1	0	2.5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Vlight	Component (-3)	Engine	0	0	1	0	0	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (-2)	Base Engine	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (-1)	Engine	0	0	1	0	0	5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (0)	Locomotion	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (+1)	Cargo	0	0	0	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
	Component (+2)	Base Engine	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
vLight	Component (+3)	Passengers	0	0	0	1	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Light	Component (+4)	Endurance	1	0	0	1	0	2.5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Standard	Component (+5)	Endurance	1	0	0	1	0	2.5	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Heavy	Component (-2)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Heavy	Component (+2)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Vheavy	Component (-3)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
VHeavy	Component (+3)		0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

 

[Reban]

Interesting. On a first reading it "flows" nicely. Bringing all the locomotive options into a single "motive" table is a really nice touch as is the extensive list of "Components".

 

[robject]

Clever reconstruction. Nice unification and, therefore, reuse of core design elements.

 

[tjoneslo]

Clever reconstruction. Nice unification and, therefore, reuse of core design elements.

Thanks. I was going to see if anyone point out any glaring flaws in the system. I am in the process of writing this up in a document/pdf with some more details, better layout, and a larger number of vehicles.

There are a few points I'm not totally clear on:

The output from the GunMaker for weapon size and ammunition storage isn't clear.

The "Lab System" is, upon reflection, a useful abstraction to refer to any vehicle mounted equipment used to boost skills. For example, Lab System(Medical) -> Sick bay or Lab System (Strength) -> Winch and/or lifting equipment. But how that ends up affecting skill rolls is something I've not divined.

The details of what you get for a "Communications system" and "Sensor system". I've been over some of the sophont sensor rules, but not the starship ones.

Pointers on these would be useful.

 

[Reban]

The output from the GunMaker for weapon size and ammunition storage isn't clear.

GunMaker and Personal Combat doesn't track ammunition (boo-Hiss). assume that the weapon has one "Load" of ammunition. What a Load equates to depends on the weapon. An ACR or Assault Rifle would have a magazine of twenty or thirty rounds. A Machine-gun would have a belt or box of 250 rounds. A Gauss gun might have a mag of 100 rounds. a launcher has a single missile or rocket while a multi-launcher has three rounds ready to fire.

After that its designer driven. Decide how many rounds you think you need (look at data for current military vehicles to get a feel for what's right). You could figure out the volume of a round or Load of ammunition and figure out how much you can fit in a ton weapons mount.

See p212 for guidelines.

The "Lab System" is, upon reflection, a useful abstraction to refer to any vehicle mounted equipment used to boost skills. For example, Lab System(Medical) -> Sick bay or Lab System (Strength) -> Winch and/or lifting equipment. But how that ends up affecting skill rolls is something I've not divined.

ACS and ThingMaker has the Med Clinic, mini galley and equipment like winches that you can lift for your table.

ACS also has a useful rule on Fitted Payload. Specialized mission support payload like a workshop or a drone operator's station is MCr 0.1 per ton. Sophisticated workspaces like Labs are MCr 1.0 per ton.

The details of what you get for a "Communications system" and "Sensor system". I've been over some of the sophont sensor rules, but not the starship ones.

Pointers on these would be useful.

Quite detailed guidelines on what you can expect to get as standard communications equipment in various types of vehicles can be found on p248. If you want something beyond these specs you design it as a vehicle installation in ThingMaker.

Sensors aren't covered in VehicleMaker but like ships they should at least have Vision R=6 portholes/windows. I think Grav and fast Flyers should probably have minimum Radar R=7 for safety reasons.

 

[Timerover51]

Tjoneslo, why are you setting the Standard Tech Level for Tracked Vehicles at 7, which equates to 1975?

Holt was mass-producing caterpillar tracked tractors prior to World War 1, and in Great Britain and France, the Holt's caterpillar tracks were used for the World War 1 tanks. France built something like 3,000 of the Renault light tank, and the combined production of the various British models was well over 1,000. I would have to check some of my reference books for exact numbers.

Roebling had his Alligator amphibious tractor running by October of 1937, and the US Marine Corps and US Army used thousands of a modified form of the vehicle during World War 2, both in cargo/personnel and amphibious tank versions.

Tracks should be Standard as of Tech Level 4, not 7.

 

[whulorigan]

Holt was mass-producing caterpillar tracked tractors prior to World War 1, and in Great Britain and France, the Holt's caterpillar tracks were used for the World War 1 tanks.
.
.
.
Tracks should be Standard as of Tech Level 4, not 7.

"Standard" tech-level under T5 refers to when the technology is mature, not when it is introduced.

Experimental TL -3 (Hand build, one-of-a-kind in the laboratory)
Prototype TL -2 (First test models)
Early TL -1 (First general production models)

Standard TL +/-0 (mature technology)
Basic TL +/-0 ("Budget" mature technology)
Generic TL +/-0 (Mature/Standard technology built at a higher TL production facility)

Improved TL +1
Modified TL +2
Advanced TL +3
Ultimate TL +4

In general, I have found it helpful to think of when a technology is first introduced as "Prototype" level (TL -2), and then work upward from there.

So your first tracked vehicles ca 1900 (TL4) are the prototypes, the tracked vehicles of the WWI & WWII period (very late TL4 thru mid-/late TL5) are the "Early" models, and the technology becomes mature (Standard) by the mid-20th Century (TL6).

 

[tjoneslo]

Tjoneslo, why are you setting the Standard Tech Level for Tracked Vehicles at 7, which equates to 1975?

All of the rules above were attempting to take the existing T5 VehicleMaker rules and rearrange them to make a more consistent build process. For me, this is a better and easier to use process for making vehicles.

I did not go through the pieces and question the fundamental assumptions for each one (like the TL for the tracks).

 

[Timerover51]

"Standard" tech-level under T5 refers to when the technology is mature, not when it is introduced.


In general, I have found it helpful to think of when a technology is first introduced as "Prototype" level (TL -2), and then work upward from there.

So your first tracked vehicles ca 1900 (TL4) are the prototypes, the tracked vehicles of the WWI & WWII period (very late TL4 thru mid-/late TL5) are the "Early" models, and the technology becomes mature (Standard) by the mid-20th Century (TL6).

I will be very blunt. I do not buy claiming that Track Technology was not mature until Tech Level 6. I do not buy a lot of the Tech Level standards, nor to I buy this idea that it takes so long to get to a mature technology, especially when you are working with historical Tech levels where we have actual hardware to work with.

Are you saying that the development of cell phone technology, being introduced in Tech Level 8 is still Experimental? Are you saying that radar currently is still not a mature technology, as that occurs at Tech Level 9.

Rigid compliance with overly-complex rules is not a way to sell games.

 

[Timerover51]

All of the rules above were attempting to take the existing T5 VehicleMaker rules and rearrange them to make a more consistent build process. For me, this is a better and easier to use process for making vehicles.

I did not go through the pieces and question the fundamental assumptions for each one (like the TL for the tracks).

Why not?

 

[whulorigan]

I will be very blunt. I do not buy claiming that Track Technology was not mature until Tech Level 6. I do not buy a lot of the Tech Level standards, nor to I buy this idea that it takes so long to get to a mature technology, especially when you are working with historical Tech levels where we have actual hardware to work with.

I would also prefer that the general developmental arc begin no more than TL -2 before the standard TL, but that is not the current RAW for T5. Personally, as a general rule (with exceptions), I would prefer that the TL development paradigm use the "fractional TLs" noted in T5: i.e. Experimental being "early" TL -2, and Prototype being "late" TL -2 or "early" TL -1. And I actually wish that the idea of "TL-Progression Slope" that was introduced in TNE:FF&S (I think) had been retained (i.e some technologies mature faster than others). But it is what it is at the moment.

Are you saying that the development of cell phone technology, being introduced in Tech Level 8 is still Experimental?

No. I am saying that Car Phones have been around at least as early as TL7 (Early Cell Phone Technology @ TL -1), and that before that engineering laboratory experiments may have been working with the basic concept as Prototypes (@ TL -2), which (if used at all) were classified government technology.

Are you saying that radar currently is still not a mature technology, as that occurs at Tech Level 9.

No. That one needs to be adjusted. I have no idea where the TL9 value came from, other than perhaps being a typo/erratum.

My suggestion would be Radar as Standard ("mature") at TL7 [ca 1975AD], Early Radar (i.e. more bulky / less sophisticated) a TL6 [ca 1950AD], and Prototype (very large and bulky and very basic) at TL5 [ca 1930AD]. Experimental at TL4 [ca 1900AD] would be something hand-built in Nikolai Tesla's laboratory.

Rigid compliance with overly-complex rules is not a way to sell games.

But there has to be some type of general framework to address improvement in technology and what its effects are as the technology matures and improves. That is why I like the TNE:FF&S "TL-Progression Slope" idea (e.g. slow/normal/fast).

The lack of a general sense of how a piece of tech improved thru the TLs after its introduction was always (IMHO) one of the shortcomings of CT.

 

[tjoneslo]

All of the rules above were attempting to take the existing T5 VehicleMaker rules and rearrange them to make a more consistent build process. For me, this is a better and easier to use process for making vehicles.

I did not go through the pieces and question the fundamental assumptions for each one (like the TL for the tracks).

Why not?

Two inter-related reasons. The first is that I have gotten the, perhaps mistaken, impression that the T5 review committee was not very interested in large scale changes to the T5 rules. Like replacing the whole Vehicle Maker.

The second reason was the next step in the process to complete the above rules was to pull apart the Gun Maker and Armor Maker rules. The Alternative Vehicle Maker rules now requires more details and overlaps (respectively) with these two makers.

So I presented a set of rules that is half done as a work in progress to gauge response. Since I didn't get an overtly enthusiastic response and got distracted by some other shiny this got forgotten.

If you really are interested in a more complete version of these rules, let me know and I'll dig up my spread sheet and design notes and finish it off.

 

[robject]

I have gotten the, perhaps mistaken, impression that the T5 review committee was not very interested in large scale changes to the T5 rules. Like replacing the whole Vehicle Maker.

I like your organization - and "components" in particular - and think it flows better than the current. If you can show Marc that its results are essentially the same as the current version I think you have a shot.

The committee consists of one man - Marc.

 

[Timerover51]

I like your organization - and "components" in particular - and think it flows better than the current. If you can show Marc that its results are essentially the same as the current version I think you have a shot.

The committee consists of one man - Marc.

I assume that there is little to no possibility of convincing him to scrap the existing system and start from scratch.

 

[robject]

Doubtful. The chain of events leading up to that would be difficult to line up.

However, there is always room for constructive criticism. That's a hint. Well not really, more like I'm telling it to you directly, because you have a lot of info that could help, but I would like you to frame it properly.

Just for everyone's sake, here's how Wordnik explains constructive criticism:

Criticism performed with a compassionate attitude towards the person qualified for criticism.

And yes, compassionate does carry an element of sympathy or favorable disposition -- towards Marc, his vision, his goals, and so on. I'm not really qualified to explain it further, but chances are you all get the gist of what I'm saying poorly.