• Welcome to the new COTI server. We've moved the Citizens to a new server. Please let us know in the COTI Website issue forum if you find any problems.

Am I missing something?

G

GJD

SOC-12
OK, so I've just started running a new campaign using the version 1 rules. At the moment we have 2 PC's fleeing the destruction of the 5th at Kalisz. Except they can't really flee, 'cos their Humvee keeps running out of alcohol and they have to spend an age moonshining up a new batch.

As far as I can see, the humvee has a capacity of 90 litres. Using ethanol, that will be gone in 1 4 hour travel period (consumption of 30/period multiplied by 3 as per the fuel energy table), or about 60Kms in rough terrain, less if travelling through woods.

So, our heroes set up camp, fire up their still and start collecting wood to brew up into methanol, dodging soviet and polish patrols all the while. Three days later, their small still (they cant have a medium still, as it weighs 2000kg, so won't fit on the Humvee or a cargo trailer) provides them with... 5 litres of methanol. At this rate it will take them 18 'brews' to fill the tank, just to drive for another 4 hours (or less on methanol). At 3 days per 'brew' thats nearly 6 weeks before they can fill up again, just for less than 4 hours travel?

How on earth are they supposed to get anywhere? They might as well walk home. Please tell me I've misunderstood somewhere!

G.
 
I can't answer you with regard to the rules, but I'd be taking a whole lot of jerrycans with me rather than a still (or at least, as well as). Even using 90 liters of petrol won't get you too far in a Humvee will it?
 
Actually, GJD, that's exactly how it's supposed to work. That's a large part of why things are static in T2K as far as major movements go. Remember, the 5th Mech Div literally ran out of fuel, which is why they died. However, remember that the distillation process can have all three phases going on at once, once you've got the initial cycle completed, so that the PCs should be able to distill 5 l/day, providing they aren't moving and there's enough material around.

That's why they establish a base camp, scout the area on foot, and use the vehicle only when absolutely certain of where they're going
 
This also illustrates why the PCs should have used a huge chunk of their start money to buy fuel
 
Two things. First that is how the rules work. Small stills are useless. Medium Stills don't fit on the cargo trailer but are themselves trailers.

Personally, granted we played a looooong time ago and this is memory, we bought plenty of Jerry Cans and a fuel trailer, and ditched the concept of distilling our own alcohol. We filled up on all the fuel we could carry then begged, borrowed, bought, bartered or stole fuel as we went. A Large still is more than capable of producing enough fuel for a large party and several vehicles but is immobile but every town has them. So.....
 
A great deal depends on the size of the party, too. I ran a party of 4 who decided to purchase either an MLVW or an HLVW (can't remember which). Having one of those vehicles makes a medium still viable.

Small stills aren't useless, but they should be considered an emergency fallback device, not a primary means of generating fuel. Although, if a party had one medium vehicle, even a Hummer or equivalent, and a few smaller vehicles, such as motorcycles, then a small still might be made viable if the party stayed put and scouted with the bikes, using the still to keep those in fuel until they found out where they wanted to dash to with the large vehicle.

Really, though, any kind of still, even a medium, is meant more for use during the middle stages of a campaign, after the (hopefully) large initial purchased stockplie has been gone through.
 
A medium still is a trailer in itself? I must have missed that. They did siphon some off from a marauders truck, but they've managed to explosivly dissasemble all the other vehicles they've come across.

They did buy extra, but only another 2 tankfulls, which they mostly used up evading the Polish 10th. They're going to bring in a couple more characters next session, so I might suggest they spend a bit more on alcohol, rather than G-11's and fistfuls of tank breakers all round.

G.
 
If they're really stuck, and you feel pity, the party might 'stumble' across a hidden private cache, just enough to get them somewhere that they can barter all of their loot for a still on a trailer.

They have been gathering loot, right?
 
Originally posted by Jon Crocker:
If they're really stuck, and you feel pity, the party might 'stumble' across a hidden private cache, just enough to get them somewhere that they can barter all of their loot for a still on a trailer.

They have been gathering loot, right?
Click to expand...
I refer the hounorable gentleman to my previous reply regarding the explosive disasembaly :)

They've got a bit, but mostly its been duck and cover, and run from the nasty polish tanks.

G.
 
The medium still doesn't come with a trailer, as far as I can recall, in 2.0 at least, but I could be wrong.
 
It has been a while. I played under both 1.0 and 2.0 and it may be a hold over from 1.0 But I seem to remember that it described somewhere as a 2 ton trailer. A Hummer would have a real hard time dragging it but a Deuce and a half, a 5 ton, or any APC would be able to do it fairly easily. Unfortunately I haven't seen my rules in a while but I will look.

One other point, a Medium Still is about the right size for a trailer and if they are actually required by an army in the field they would certainly be trailers. Though two models one that was a trailer and one that wasn't would work well. That way a 5 Ton could have two on the bed and one on a trailer. The Army does have two sizes of cargo trailers. A Medium Still would be about the size of a Water Buffalo. (Probably a field conversion of either a water buffalo or a fuel pod.) (And I am leaning toward fuel pods.
)

I seem to remember us in a similar situation both when I played and when I GMed. THe small still is worthless, it is so much easier to beg, buy, borrow or steal fuel than it is to make it yourself. Especially since vehicles run so much better on Ethanol than Methanol.

On a more serious note we tended to run it similar to a Traveller Merc Campaign. Usually with about 12 guys. (4-8 PCs and a handful of NPC privates.) A Hummer or two, a 5 Ton and an LAV-25. (Usually a UAZ and once or twice a Land Rover.) It is much easier to move through an area in Eastern Europe when your point vehicle is something the natives expect to see as a friendly vehicle. (I got the idea from a WWII movie where the Americans used a Kublewagon to run point and see if the Germans were there and it caught on.
)
 
I'm assuming that a water buffalo is the 1,000 liter tank trailer, which is equivalent to a 1 ton trailer. It seems odd that there isn't a still designed to go on the 1 ton trailer, the small still is too small to be practical and the medium still is to big to drag around.

G.
 
OK I found the box where some of the T2K stuff was. (Not the adventures or first ed stuff but most of the second ed stuff. (Missing the Heavy Weapons guide... Hmmm.) It isn't mentioned as such in 2nd ed. (though it also isn't mentioned as stationary either. If it isn't in 1st Ed I stand corrected. But I can't find First Ed. It may have been one of those it makes sense to do it that way. Since when I was playing I, and virtually everyone that played was in the Army and most of us were in Intel. (We did add the Hemmet, and the four sizes of trailers that the Army was using in the late 80s.) And were surprised at how good the research was into certain vehicles that were in the game but not yet in real life.


But for some reason the image of it being a Trailer sticks out. I did get the weight right. (2 tons.)
 
Originally posted by GJD:
I'm assuming that a water buffalo is the 1,000 liter tank trailer, which is equivalent to a 1 ton trailer. It seems odd that there isn't a still designed to go on the 1 ton trailer, the small still is too small to be practical and the medium still is to big to drag around.

G.
Click to expand...
The Army did have a 2 ton trailer. There was a 1/4 ton trailer that was the right size for a Jeep. The 1/2 ton trailer which was towed behind the Hummers and the CUCVs. The 1 Ton Trailer which was generally towed behind Deuce and a Halfs and 5 tons and occasionally an APC. (ANd a Hummer would have a hard time with the 1 ton trailer though it could tow one in a pinch.) and the 2 ton trailer that had 4 wheels and went behind 5 tons and Hemmets. Which would work for a still. But I don't think we made up the fact that the Medium still was a trailer. So I am pretty sure it was in the description someplace in 1st Ed. I remember thinking you needed half a 5 ton bed or 2.5 ton bed (By the way a Deuce and a half can actually carry 10 tons, rated capacity as long as you stay on the road and load it right.
) Then thinking after reading something, or seeing something that makes more sense that it is a trailer. It might even be an old Challenge article.

I'll keep looking.
 
Of course, you could simply rule that the medium still comes mounted. I know that when I ran campaigns where some PCs were Canadian, I pretty much altered the training packages and starting kit to conform to reality as opposed to the bizarre set of tables that GDW came up with
 
Originally posted by GJD:
I found a 3000lb trailer designed specifically for the humvee here (along with all sorts of other goodness):

http://loonz.freeservers.com/t2k/hmmwv.htm

3000lb is about 1300Kg, which is slightly better, but still not enough for our still (if you will excuse the pun).

G.
Click to expand...
Looks like the half ton trailer with a better suspension. Most vehicles were actually under classed. And with an improved suspension and new tires the same frame could easily carry more. It doesn't look any bigger than the 1/2 ton trailer I talked about earlier. The problem with the 1 Ton Trailer and the Hummer wasn't the weight, it had to do with the hitch height.


The Deuce and a Half was actually rated for 10 tons. (Even though it was a "2.5 ton" truck.) It would carry 5 tons off road easily and 10 tons if you stayed on relatively good roads. THe difference between the 2.5 and the 5 ton was basically the age. And by 1993 most of the 2.5 tons were replaced by 5 tons. (Most CUCVs were also out of the inventory by then as well.) In the late 80s when I was part of the Big Red One we had 2 Deuces that weren't quite as old as the Division but were older than most US divisions. One was built in 1942 and the other 1948. The data card for the 1942 one showed that it had served in the Big Red One fresh from the factory. Considering that the 1st ID was first in for Torch, first in at Sicily, first in at Omaha Beach, went to Korea, Viet Nam, and Desert Storm. (One of the first divisions to cross the berm in Desert Storm.) The truck had one hell of a combat record. Hopefully when they took the truck to Desert Storm they gave it a military burial in the desert.
 
Vehicles are nice but that is primarily for toting around a heavy weapon. The last time I played the group decided to get horses instead of vehicles. One period of harvesting material to feed the horses pays off much better than one period gathering material to turn into fuel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BackworldTraveller
Impact of Interstellar travel on Ecology
2 3
Replies
42
Views
2K
chipla
C
atpollard
CT Only: Traveller Tech Levels
3 4 5
Replies
89
Views
2K
bookwyrm
B
C
Power failure in space
2 3 4
Replies
62
Views
1K
Condottiere
C
Badenov
What is the size in cubic meters of an air/raft
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
2K
Rupert
R
Prodromoi
General Hello (again)
Replies
7
Views
370
casquilho
casquilho
Back
Top