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Amenities on a starship 'cruise' liner

Originally posted by Paraquat Johnson:
On a real cruise ship, they only have a handful of beds in their "hospital": 6-7 max. If you need to be confined to a bed, you stay in the bed in your cabin, and the onboard doc and/or nurse will come by to check on you.

Only someone who needs serious, continuous care would be placed in a hospital bed.
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I seem to remember seeing one "sickbay" on a cruise ship with only a few beds (3-4 sticks in my mind). It was the only one that I've seen though, so I don't know if it is representative.

Also, on most current cruise ships, the ship is usually only a day or less from its next port of call, so getting someone off the ship and to a major medical facility isn't a problem (except for ships that do oceanic crossings). On a starship, the next port of call might be 7 days away, so that would argue for a slightly higher number of beds per passenger.

Ron
 
Originally posted by Egapillar:
In the traveller universe, cruise ships seem a non-sequitor. I imagine that populus worlds would have extrordinary cruise vessels for vacationing, antigrav platforms that went every where with every amenity.

I think interstellar travel would have few amenities. there simply isn't enough space on board for entainment as discussed. and it would be too crowded to boot.

I took a ferry trip from Bergen, Norway to Amsterdam once. I think it was a prototypical of what a interstellar passenger ship would be like. It was too inhospitable to be outside. there was nothing to do in the common areas, which were crowded with people I didn't want to be around. The state rooms were miniscule but the only private places on the ship.
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That's what was called "steerage class" in the old passenger liners. They aren't really "staterooms," more like private compartments on trains. Standard Traveller uses low passage as the equivalent but IMTU nobody gets frozen for a week-long trip. Too risky. Stacked bunks, shared facilities, and minimal service would have the same effective density (somewhere below 1dT/head) and ticket price.

By definition, the purpose of a cruise ship is entertainment. Spacious and comfy. As Bhoins said, 50k-300k Cr
 
Just a note about sick bays on passenger vessels
in Traveller. Remember the low berths - anyone
who is too sick to just stay in bed in their
stateroom will probably be placed in a low
berth until they can be taken to a hospital.
If the low berths are all filled with low
passengers, then some low passenger gets a
free upgrade to middle passage.

With this in mind, I'd say that a sickbay
would have a few examination rooms - perhaps
one or two per 120 passengers - and a
pharmacy desk for dispensing analgesics,
indigestion remedies and other minor
medical care.

Walt Smith
Firelock on DALNet
 
I'd put sickbay berths at 1 per 200 persons aboard, not just passengers.

Why? Because crew are far more likely to need them than passengers IF security are doing their jobs.

I'll explain: the passengers, by their nature, are from a limited range of worlds, often a single world. They are likely to have low level carrier status for a number of "Locally innocuous" bugs... A ship crew, however, encounters not just passengers from multiple worlds, but persons likely to have travelled between worlds before, and have a wider variety. (This, of course, makes the assumption that the vast majority of persons never even leave their birth-world.)

Additionally, a number of starship jobs involve exposures to chemicals that passengers never will go near, as well as environmental agents (including radiation and hydrogen leakage) which passengers are usually fairly well shielded from.

What's more, crew often use tools; passengers tools should be of the fairly non-physical kind as a rule.

Passengers are unarmed; crew are often partially armed.

Passengers are aboard for a jump or two; their inter-exposure is minimal unless drastic (IE, innocuous bug A finds a person with no immunity, in whom it mutates enough to come back to the first host and do harm, in the mean time running roughshod over the rest of the ship's population). Crew are exposed to new group mixes every couple weeks, for 50 weeks per year... Yes, they are likely to have some impressive immunities... at least a few acquired by survival of some drastic disorder.

these lead me to believe that most of the beds in sickbay will actually be aimed at crew. And, like in Star Trek (We see some 5 beds in the bay in Classic Trek, for a crew of 435... plus two exam rooms with beds. Plans show more than that...) each is likely to be equipped for full "Intensive care" level diagnostics, and possibly might actually be ICU-equivalent units. Even the "Exam Rooms" will be the same kind of beds, IMO.

I like the idea of a ship needing a sickbay for large passenger runs...

I like it even better as a regular part of larger ships of all missions.

Now, the sickbay really will be for cases where, for the most part, a crewman is inured on the job, often by flipped out passengers and or crew, or are injured whilst being subdued because their close quarters training wasn't good enough to find out they can't handle 15 weeks straight without natural sunlight....
 
I am sorry. A modern cruse ship, at least one that transits the ocean would have almost identical constraints to an interstellar liner.

The enginerring spaces and fuel take up more space, yet the even a 4-500 ton ship would be close to the same size, and by the time we cross 1500 tons or so, there WOULD be room for enough passengers and aminities to make it all work out.

Go to Austealia and back, and for BASIC accomodations on a medium grade cruise liner. LA to sydney and back, last time I priced on started at 6000 a piece or more. That was not high end accomodations, and not the high end top of the line ship with every entertainment man can create.

If I recall, current dollars have a base conversion of 3 to a Cr, thats 24,000CR for "basic" luxury liner accomodations. high end could go to 5 - 10 times that, or more.

@ 4000 passengers, at 125K each that is 410Mcr per jump. That would pay for a LOT of wasted space in the form of aminities. I would have to run the numbers but I would think by the time crew was factored in, you would get maybe 59 to 75Ktons, and could add virtually all of the aminities listed. BTW, for the space of a second ships comp, you could have one HELL of a data center, and comp entertainment center, and maybe even study courses for those few so inclined.

To get enough passengers to fill the berths, this liners would only travel between main systems. you would probably pay that rate or maybe twice, for a journey as far apart as 6 or 8 jumps. There would likly only be 3 or maybe 4, all operated by the same megacorp, travering slightly differnt routes between a couple of the mainworlds.

Yes, Megacorp officers, high level politicols, and the super rich would be your passengers, but with on or maybe two ships a year, for those accustomed to that level of luxury, that would be a small price to pay.
 
That sounds like a typical traveller trip. Though you would have a steward to make sure you were fed and your room kept clean over the course of a week. (High Passage) Plus some entertainment of the In Flight Movie Variety and perhaps some computer/VR games/entertainment.

This is a Luxury Cruise Ship. It isn't about the destination it is about the trip. If there is a Market (and I am sure there would be) and you can make a profit doing it, (Though you aren't going to do it for KCr10 per passenger.) then there will be such ships. All you have to figure is the actual cost of passage and profit margin. After all one of the things that you can do during Noble Character generation is "Grand Tour." You think that would be done on a Free Trader or a lowly Sub-Liner?

Now since a "Grand Tour" is 4 years, and since it takes news from Capital to Regina about a year by XBoat, then it would take about 4 years to do a nice tour between Capital and the Spinward Marches on a Jump-2 Cruise Ship. YOu could then have a second leg that would take you down to the Solomani Rim. Perhaps another leg along the Trailing Provinces. (ie. Ley Sector, Gateway Domain area)

Hitting the highlights you are spending about 12-16 years covering the Imperium.


If you limit your exposure, do proper market research and see what the market will bear then you can build, economically, your Cruise Space Liners, and make a profit at it. (Unlike charging per jump regardless of distance, where you have a rather difficult time making a profit.)

BTW somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-35% of your ship will be Fuel and Engines (On that jump-2 liner) which leaves plenty of room for amenities. Especially in the 2-5Kton range.
Originally posted by Egapillar:
In the traveller universe, cruise ships seem a non-sequitor. I imagine that populus worlds would have extrordinary cruise vessels for vacationing, antigrav platforms that went every where with every amenity.

I think interstellar travel would have few amenities. there simply isn't enough space on board for entainment as discussed. and it would be too crowded to boot.

I took a ferry trip from Bergen, Norway to Amsterdam once. I think it was a prototypical of what a interstellar passenger ship would be like. It was too inhospitable to be outside. there was nothing to do in the common areas, which were crowded with people I didn't want to be around. The state rooms were miniscule but the only private places on the ship.
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Just as an aside $5 USD from 1975 is roughly CT-Cr1...

so assuming modern is $3 to the Cr, that $6K becomes KCr2... not KCr24... or roughly "Steerage" rates. KCr8 MP seems fairly high...

But space has far higher risks and IMO, probably lower willingness, for passengers, hence higher costs.

IIRC, the GURPS $ is a stabized reference to 1985 US$.
 
hmmmm

How's this?
Cruise ship jumps to interesting system, spends a week siteseeing, jumps home.

Royal Class: 12dt room, cr 100k for single
cr 120k for double
includes unlimited anytime room service and significant in room entertainment facilities.

First Class: 8dt room, cr 70k for single
cr 85k for double
includes unlimited anytime room service and limited in room facilities

Family Class: 8dt room, cr 75k for 4
includes 4 bunks or 2 double beds and room service at mealtimes only

Middle Class: 4dt room, cr 40k for 2
includes 2 bunks or 1 double beds and room service at mealtimes only

Low Class: 2dt small stateroom for 2. Only occupied at destination, jump time is spent in a low berth. Cost cr 5k

Entertainment facilities on a ship of this type might be 4dt per passenger at a cost of cr 100k to install and requiring an additional staff of 1 per 10 passengers beyond steward requirements. These are performers, store clerks, etc


just rambling ideas
:confused:
 
Originally posted by flykiller:
space aboard a starship is limited. duplicative dining rooms are too much. many rooms will have to be multi-purpose - perhaps 0G and the casino are good candidates for double-duty, say ten hours per day each.
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This depends.

Modern space craft are small due to the limited propulsion systems we have available. With jump or gravitonic technology, such limits would be loosened considerably.

Modern SUBmarines are small because the pressure hull has to keep out a ton of pressure. Spaceships don't have that problem. They have to keep the small pressure in. So again, not as much a limit as it sounds.
 
Size constraints aboard typical traveler ships are caused by economics.

Tramp freighters, free traiders, and Subsidized merchants are all eaking out existances, becuase there is a surplus of individual ships to keep prices for travel down.

So these ships have to squeez every penny they can in operation costs, and maximize cargo and passenger loads to even break even. (the whole concept of subsidized service when the margins are so tight already for the existing ships can only mean that the goverment WANTS to drive prices down as far as they can go.)

By definition, a luxury linner is a luxury, and can ask virtually what ever price they want.

They are drawing from a much smaller clientle base, but those who are willing are almost uncomncerned about price and luxury is everything.

There would be fewer of these running, and you would liky wait months before a ship arrived that was going where you wanted to go, but to those who travel in those circles, they have the "luxury" to be able to plan ahead, and poorer people would have to scrimp and save FOR YEARS to afford a once in a lifetime trip, so they can set a date far into the futur and be ready when that day arrives.

So the economics would be VASTLY differnt. Your passengers are paying ABSOLUTE TOP DOLLAR and asking for EVERYTHING YOU CAN PROVIDE danm the price. Whereas a passenger on a free trader is barly pay the costs to move him one jump, on a luxury liner, every passenger is paying for all aminities, plus a quite hansom markup. so you can afford to just waste space. Casenos and shops with make several times in revenue compared to the same amonut of space warehousing people.

The casinos ill likly pay all the bills and a profit alone.

While there are certain shows in the vid palices, proection theaters, concerts and show rooms, that are incluuded in the ticket price, only the higest of the highend passages will get free vip access, and their ticket prices will be high enough to cover the lost revenue.

For all other passengers, the revues and basic classics would be in the price of the ticket, but all else is purely pay as you go.

Same with Food, probably three grades of food. Low end is still elegat compared to normal fare, most passengers would have access to 1 or maybe two meals a day in their ticket. the third meal would be either a contental style breakfast, or a brunch that you would pay for.

Second teir would be the highest range most people would be used to seeing. Formal dining with all the accuterments. Except for very high grade passengers, you would definatly pay for those meals.

Above that would be Almost a state dinner, as every one that could acually aford to get through the door would be qualified to arttend state dinners often as the guest of honor. There would only be a couple of hundred settings tops, if that many. The captans table and Snior officers would dine there, and virually no body would come in unless a vip passenger, or their personal guest.

Same with the shops. the main prominade would would have the highest end shops available on the most popular and comsmopalitan worlds.

There there would be a seperate deck of tryly Rodaio Dr class shops, and maybe shops that only have real estate in the luxury liner trade.

All of these spaces would generate several times the revenue per dton per jump than a free trader could earn total, in several years.
 
have to at least somewhat agree.

well then there's only one thing left to consider. why would anybody want to board one of these wonder wagons? what does a space-going ship of any quality offer that these "cost is no object I can play at the casino all day" people can't get planetside?
 
They do it here on earth. You can fly to Nassau or Freeport from the Us and it'll only cost a couple hundred dollars and take 2 or 3 hours but people pay 3 to 20k and spend 3 or 4 days to get there on a cruise ship. There are a couple dozen in the Carribean alone who sail every week with a full (or almost full) passenger list.

The selling point would be the destination in addition to the trip. A cruise line wouldn't just jup out into space and back, it would stop somewhere interesting. A ship from here might stop off at the moon for a few hours then stop at mars for the day. jump to Alpha Centauri spend a few days in the system then jump back.
 
yes, here on earth a bunch of middle-class whatevers will save a few thousand dollars and for a day or two band together in huge mobs to visit places which to them are exotic - ice floes, norweigian (sp?) fjords, tahiti, guadalajara. fantastically rich people, however, such as were being discussed, have different tastes and practices. what is going to induce a few hundred ultra-rich people to embark on an expensive cruise ship? just the fact that it is going somewhere?

maybe it could be a fashion thing - the right people, the right parties, the right drugs or something. maybe some planetary dictator or mafia boss does the rounds of his businesses, and carries his hangers-on with him. maybe it's to avoid local laws - twelve-mile limit and that sort of thing. hm. steal a safe, undercover investigative law enforcement, industrial espionage. ah, there we go - adventure seeds, james bond style.
 
My impression is that the timeframe to look at is not 2005, but 1912. The Titanic attracted a number of the famous and rich people of the time. It was setup to have almost any luxury the rich could want on a week-long trip across the Atlantic.
 
In 1912, the cruise ship was about the only way to cross the Atlantic... small merchantmen of the naval period were NOT often deep ocean going, and large merchantmen were not usually carrying passengers...

And Zeppelin service was just around the corner, as was airplane service, but neither were "self-evident".
 
There is limited and there is limited. Granted space aboard a starship is limited by a certain percentage of the overall size, no matter which rule set we are talking about. But size of the starship is effectively limited only by the economics of the business plan and clientele list. So the space aboard a starship is unimportant, as long as there is enough to take care of the passengers you wish to carry. (And if there isn't then build a bigger ship.)


Originally posted by flykiller:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />space aboard a starship is limited.
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This depends.</font>[/QUOTE]on the ruleset being considered. of course. I was assuming book 5. </font>[/QUOTE]
 
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