An Alternative Fuel Hit Rule

[AnotherDilbert]

If I understand it correctly liquid hydrogen only stays liquid under very narrow conditions of temperature and pressure. Apply some pressure and it will turn into a solid, hydrogen ice. Heat it or release the pressure and it will turn into a gas, explosively.




So, if we do not intend to jump right now we can put pressure on the tanks to turn the hydrogen into ice.

Any high energy event that penetrates the tank would heat the ice while releasing the pressure, turning it into gas that would vent through the hole, while absorbing energy.

 

[kilemall]

If I understand it correctly liquid hydrogen only stays liquid under very narrow conditions of temperature and pressure. Apply some pressure and it will turn into a solid, hydrogen ice. Heat it or release the pressure and it will turn into a gas, explosively.

So, if we do not intend to jump right now we can put pressure on the tanks to turn the hydrogen into ice.

Any high energy event that penetrates the tank would heat the ice while releasing the pressure, turning it into gas that would vent through the hole, while absorbing energy.

I figure capacitors are metallic hydrogen, and an example of newfound gravitic tech materials applications. Hence the explodey once fully charged part.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen


Solid hydrogen might be the form preferred for power plant/M-drive operation. I have to think though that the nature of jump fuel use means it needs to stay liquid until use.

 

[sabredog]

Chadwick wrote somewhere that the blinding effect of lasers was specifically not addressed. They thought about it, and chose not to bring it up at all.

Eventually lasers are x-ray types anyway. And if you are wearing protective armor designed to protect against lasers weapons, as appear when effective battlefield lasers do, then the problem becomes moot. SAC crews wore visors on their helmets that stopped the flash from a nuclear weapon from blinding the crews in the 70's so I would imagine that by TL-9+ we'd have visors on armor helmets to stop lasers from doing the same before they all become x-ray lasers.

Besides, the 5D6 hole in you from the laser might be a more worrisome effect in the game and real life.

 

[sabredog]

Solid hydrogen might be the form preferred for power plant/M-drive operation. I have to think though that the nature of jump fuel use means it needs to stay liquid until use.

The L-Hyd fuel is ruled as liquid throughout the varies rule sets of Traveller. "L-Hyd as the name says as much. The procedure for processing it rapidly to charge the capacitors for a Jump in Miller's JTAS article also points out that it is liquid in the tanks. Same with rule and JTAS references to being able to frontier refuel a ship by opening the cocks on the tanks to take in freshwater on a world, or even be able to shovel in ice to process.

SO if it is liquid and therefore extremely cold and when a hot energy weapon or explosive burst enters it does it just sublimate to gas and absorb the energy without some catastrophic reaction or does that series of events enhance the reaction into something worse?

I'm thinking of how one of the critical hits in HG being "Fuel Tanks Shattered" - which on something like a big warship could be close to a quarter to third of the ship's tonnage in fuel. That's an enormous amount of volume to 'shatter' and unless the fuel tanks are all in one section indicates some kind of cascading reaction that propagates through the fuel systems.

So maybe L-Hyd tanks are more explosive for some reason than otherwise thought? Just spitballin' here, gang, I;m just an old ex-cop and only play a physicist when refereeing my game (and that's with my Masters in Handwavium Theory).

 

[kilemall]

Well remember Sabre, we aren't even having a thread on this topic without my willing to mess with a major play element in fleet and ACS ship resolution. Canon is a starting line for me, not a destination.


I am much more interested in the gameplay why of things and effects, so posts quoting Atomic Rockets read more to me like 'shopping list of plausible options that sound good' and not simulation.


So gearhead fun and games all around, but no one is actually addressing the core topic- good gameplay device? Bad one? Eh, might be good under X condition with Y consequence?

 

[Whipsnade]

I'm thinking of how one of the critical hits in HG being "Fuel Tanks Shattered"....

I would think the "Fuel Tanks Shattered" result on the Critical Hits table was meant to be taken more figuratively rather than absolutely literally. After all, writing "shattered" is faster, easier, and takes up less space in the text than writing "A combination of the tanks, piping, pumps, heaters, and other equipment associated with the vessel's fuel handling systems has been degraded, damaged, and/or destroyed to such an extent that the vessel can no longer supply fuel to it's power plants, maneuver drive, or jump drive".

Then again, that might just be me.

However, all of that is not the point of this thread.

 

[Straybow]

Given...

1. the fuel used is some isotope of hydrogen, possibly already contaminated with methane, ammonia, helium, and other isotopes of hydrogen.
2. The intended use generates far more radiation than any weapon hit, save potentially meson gun hits; if radiation were a factor, the fuel would self-contaminate before hitting the ignition chamber.
3. the energies needed to make a contaminant that matters essentially involve alterations of the atomic structure - either triggering neutron decay, proton decay, proton capture, or neutron capture.
4. the only weapons below TL16 with sufficient energy density capability to accomplish #4 are meson guns, and probably not at ship-combat ranges...

It's far less of a stretch to simply have it shatter it's tanks from thermal shock and decompression forces.

Hmmm...

1. I've long argued that there is no such thing as refined vs unrefined fuel. Refining means chemically changing, and H2 is just H2.
2. I've long argued that there is no such thing as purified vs impure. The process of liquifying H2 will remove all contaminants automatically.
3. Hydrogen is a moderator. It will readily diminish the energy of neutrons and alphas to a not-immediately-deadly level and completely block betas. It won't act as armor vs lasers, kinetics, or explosives.

Just sayin'

 

[Ulsyus]

I'm thinking of how one of the critical hits in HG being "Fuel Tanks Shattered" - which on something like a big warship could be close to a quarter to third of the ship's tonnage in fuel. That's an enormous amount of volume to 'shatter' and unless the fuel tanks are all in one section indicates some kind of cascading reaction that propagates through the fuel systems.

So maybe L-Hyd tanks are more explosive for some reason than otherwise thought? Just spitballin' here, gang, I;m just an old ex-cop and only play a physicist when refereeing my game (and that's with my Masters in Handwavium Theory).

Old ex-cops are among The Best because they've learnt the ABCs of evidence:

1. Assume nothing
2. Believe no-one
3. Confirm everything.

If the tanks are broken up by baffles then that'd reduce the chances of there being a catastrophic event, but wouldn't eliminate it. If the LHyd is held under pressure (use of grav fields could be the most efficient way of doing this though carrying greater risk than just pressurised tanks, though the two together could be a good way of managing the risk of either one failing...comments from naval architects anyone?) then any hit would present problems, but it seems to me that it'd depend on the type of hit, angle of shot, etc.

 

[aramis]

Hmmm...

1. I've long argued that there is no such thing as refined vs unrefined fuel. Refining means chemically changing, and H2 is just H2.
2. I've long argued that there is no such thing as purified vs impure. The process of liquifying H2 will remove all contaminants automatically.
3. Hydrogen is a moderator. It will readily diminish the energy of neutrons and alphas to a not-immediately-deadly level and completely block betas. It won't act as armor vs lasers, kinetics, or explosives.

Just sayin'

Actually, vs lasers, yes, it will - once you hole the tank, the laser has to boil it out of the way; the internal pressure will help, but that first shot into the tank will be pretty much fighting the boiling H2, trying to force it back by excitation to plasma...

KKW's are fast enough, but there's still the kinetic resistance of a fluid.

Nukes and Explosives? again, thermal mass.

Not particularly high rates, mind, but yes, it will have an effect that is vaguely armor like... once.