M
Malenfant
Guest
Anyone tried either (or both) of these programs?
How good are they? Easy to learn? Lots of functions? Any problems/flaws?
How good are they? Easy to learn? Lots of functions? Any problems/flaws?
I downloaded the AstroSynthesis trial (Still available from their download page). It is 3D Star mapping program not tied to Traveller. You can do Traveller stuff with it, but it's not a Traveller star map program. If you don't care about precise Traveller compatiability,it may be something you'd be interested in.
I've not used Universe, but have read through the various information and downloaded the files provided. It is anTraveller mapping program with the advantage of the data being stored in a real relational database. If you know and want the power of a database to manage your star data it looks like a good deal. If not, I can't see anything to recommend it over any of the free alteratives.
I've not used Universe, but have read through the various information and downloaded the files provided. It is anTraveller mapping program with the advantage of the data being stored in a real relational database. If you know and want the power of a database to manage your star data it looks like a good deal. If not, I can't see anything to recommend it over any of the free alteratives.
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
Universe is well-made and generates very nice maps, but it's a little short on features.
Here's 2 freeware programs I found that are
quite good...
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7472/ifosweb/index.htm
http://www.lemoneyes-radio.com/stargen/
Tom
http://www.geocities.com/emryys/
quite good...
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7472/ifosweb/index.htm
http://www.lemoneyes-radio.com/stargen/
Tom
http://www.geocities.com/emryys/
AstroSynthesis
I own a full copy of this program and like a previous poster indicated, its not really compatible with the classic 2D Traveller mapping style.
It is however, very useful for 2300-era play as it creates very good 3D maps. I've been slowly building the base 2300 map within in over the last several weeks.
When used in conjunction with ProFantasy's Campaign Cartographer (and its add-ons) you really end up with a full mapping solution. As such, its my intention to build a complete "atlas" of the 2300 universe, right down to planetary maps. Its alot for one person, that's for sure (and I'm pulled in 3427673 different directions everyday).
I'd be interested in hooking up with anyone else who has Astro and CC2 to collaborate on such a project. Heck, I'd be willing to do some mapping work for 2320 if its needed.
I own a full copy of this program and like a previous poster indicated, its not really compatible with the classic 2D Traveller mapping style.
It is however, very useful for 2300-era play as it creates very good 3D maps. I've been slowly building the base 2300 map within in over the last several weeks.
When used in conjunction with ProFantasy's Campaign Cartographer (and its add-ons) you really end up with a full mapping solution. As such, its my intention to build a complete "atlas" of the 2300 universe, right down to planetary maps. Its alot for one person, that's for sure (and I'm pulled in 3427673 different directions everyday).
I'd be interested in hooking up with anyone else who has Astro and CC2 to collaborate on such a project. Heck, I'd be willing to do some mapping work for 2320 if its needed.
Captain Bob of the LEXX
SOC-9
I recently got the full copy of AstroSynthesis also, Jadawin. I'm still just in my playing around with it stage. While I'm not interested in the 2300 universe, I'm glad to hear someone else is considering using it for traveller, in general.
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Captain Bob of the LEXX
SOC-9
Hal,
Three files that can be downloaded for Astrosynthesis are explained as:
Real stellar data for AstroSynthesis (~3.4 meg) (posted 03-10-2005)
Submitted by Terry Kepner
Three data files of real universe star positions in .csv format that can be imported into AstroSynthesis. Files included are:
All stars within 50ly of Sol
All stars within 100ly of Sol
All stars within 1000ly of Sol
A text file describing the source for the data and methologies used.
To import these datafiles, select File - Import Data from AstroSynthesis's main menu.
This file is available at the NBOS website in the other downloads section.
NBOS Other Downloads
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Arizona dispensaries
Three files that can be downloaded for Astrosynthesis are explained as:
Real stellar data for AstroSynthesis (~3.4 meg) (posted 03-10-2005)
Submitted by Terry Kepner
Three data files of real universe star positions in .csv format that can be imported into AstroSynthesis. Files included are:
All stars within 50ly of Sol
All stars within 100ly of Sol
All stars within 1000ly of Sol
A text file describing the source for the data and methologies used.
To import these datafiles, select File - Import Data from AstroSynthesis's main menu.
This file is available at the NBOS website in the other downloads section.
NBOS Other Downloads
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I've got the 2300AD universe in a csv file for Astrosynthesis, and I've mapped all the colony worlds as well using Fractal Terrains. I'm working on updating the 2300 NSL, but that's a huge project that I may not have time for.
I may just take you up on the mapping offer.
Colin Dunn
2320AD writer and line editor
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
Anyone using AstroSynthesis for Traveller itself? I know since Traveller is a 2D Universe and AS generates 3D Universes, (THough I suppose you could set the Z to one Parsec, I think it defeats the purpose.) it isn't truly compatible but I think that it would be cool to generate sectors in AS that have a close correlation to the Sectors in Traveller and give you a nice 3d Map, instead. My problem is what settings to use to preserve the Traveller feel.
Captain Bob of the LEXX
SOC-9
I have been using AstroSynthesis to set up my Humanx Campaign star systems. I leave the Z axis at 0. I also set my sector propererties:units of measure to parsecs. I then place the systems on the map based on light years, then set up trade routes. The program shows the trade route distances in parsecs, which allows me to see in an instant what size jump to use.
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I own both Universe and Astrosynthesis, though I've only had the latter for a couple of weeks. Here's my CR 0.02:
Universe is great for mapping out a traditional Traveller region. It does not (in this incarnation) perform any system generation, but it is rules-aware as far as UWP elements go. For example, the UWP editing screen shows the rules-legal value ranges for the various elements - for example, next to the TL rating it shows the possible minimum and maximum TLs, given the other characteristics.
Universe uses an Interbase DB as it's back-end repository which gives tremendous flexibility. You can specify political affilitations (seems like Peter included every canonical polity, but you can easily create your own for the home-brew and ATU crowd), select from a plethora of base designations (and edit/add your own), etc. It can take input from Galactic, World Builder and H&E, so you could easily use H&E to generate the sector, then use Universe to manage it.
The maps are excellent, with various colored icons for the mainworlds based on general types. I believe in the latest version you can specify your choice of black or white backgrounds for print maps.
For the most part the program is very easy to navigate and use. Universe can be started in one of two modes - Referee's mode, where items can be edited and everything is displayed, and Player mode, where things are read-only, and potentially things can be hidden by the referee (for example, systems can be marked by the GM as "unexplored" and the PCs get little data on them). You could easily through this on a laptop and keep it handy during a game. GMs can add text notes at the sector, subsector and world level - both public "player's notes" and private GM notes only accessible in Referee mode.
I've exchanged several emails with Peter Trevor (the author) regarding bugs or feature requests and he's been very responsive and receptive.
Peter has released 2 .X upgrades since I've purchased the program, which were free and painless to implement. The current version is 1.7, I believe.
Cons: the documentation is a little thin, and there are a few key operations that are pretty obtuse, like setting up an import filter for one of the supported file types (like *.SEC). In only runs on Windows NT/2K/XP etc. I've had difficulty printing a side-by-side subsector listing and map, a la Supplement 3 style, though that could be a quirk in my printing set-up.
Peter posts here at CotI as Hemidan or Hemdian, I believe, though I'm not sure how often he visits.
Astrosynthesis is a rather different beastie. As others have said, it's not intended for Traveller, but rather for generating and mapping 3-d stellar regions. The generation is supposed to be based on current science, though the program will do a bit of minor "terraforming" behind the scenes if a planet is close to the border between "habitable" and "hospitable". It's worth noting that "hospitable" does not mean "Earthlike" - Mars, for example, might fit the bill. The planetary generation is very detailed in some areas, but if you modify a planetary characteristic (for example, albedo) the program won't recalculate the affected values (or at least I haven't found a way to do so). One thing that is generated is atmospheric content, a nice touch, along with temperature ranges, hydrographic percentages, and the other usual items.
Astrosynthesis does generate populations for inhabited systems but nothing further in the way of government type, tech levels etc. It will occasionally place space stations as the sole point of habitation in a system. Inhabited systems may have their populations spread across multiple bodies in the system.
You can specify a cubical or spherical region to be generated and can select between several different levels (e.g., star positions only, stars, stars & systems, etc.) for the bulk generation. Generating a 200x200x200 parsec cube took about 10 minutes on my 1.8 GHz Pentium 4 w/ 1 GB of RAM.
You can specify allegiances for at least systems (I'm not sure if you can split the worlds of a system between different allegiances) and routes between systems can be designated. One feature I've found handy when playing around is the "proximity routes" feature, which will automatically generate and display routes based on criteria you enter. For example, you could have the system mark routes only between inhabited systems no more than 4 parsecs apart; the cross-roads systems will really leap out at you then.
While Universe's mapping stops at the subsector level, Astrosynthesis itself will generate contour maps for bodies (or at least cloud images for gas giants). You can export the contour maps to NBOS' Fractal World Explorer or Fractal Mapper.
You can add notes to planets and systems. I'm not sure if there is a feature analogous to the dual Referee / player modes of Universe.
There's a data import facility but I haven't looked into that at all yet.
Sooo... apples and oranges. For pure Traveller mapping, Universe is excellent. If you want to play around with a 3-D universe, Astrosynthesis might fit the bill, though I haven't looked into the freeware programs mentioned up-thread.
- John
Universe is great for mapping out a traditional Traveller region. It does not (in this incarnation) perform any system generation, but it is rules-aware as far as UWP elements go. For example, the UWP editing screen shows the rules-legal value ranges for the various elements - for example, next to the TL rating it shows the possible minimum and maximum TLs, given the other characteristics.
Universe uses an Interbase DB as it's back-end repository which gives tremendous flexibility. You can specify political affilitations (seems like Peter included every canonical polity, but you can easily create your own for the home-brew and ATU crowd), select from a plethora of base designations (and edit/add your own), etc. It can take input from Galactic, World Builder and H&E, so you could easily use H&E to generate the sector, then use Universe to manage it.
The maps are excellent, with various colored icons for the mainworlds based on general types. I believe in the latest version you can specify your choice of black or white backgrounds for print maps.
For the most part the program is very easy to navigate and use. Universe can be started in one of two modes - Referee's mode, where items can be edited and everything is displayed, and Player mode, where things are read-only, and potentially things can be hidden by the referee (for example, systems can be marked by the GM as "unexplored" and the PCs get little data on them). You could easily through this on a laptop and keep it handy during a game. GMs can add text notes at the sector, subsector and world level - both public "player's notes" and private GM notes only accessible in Referee mode.
I've exchanged several emails with Peter Trevor (the author) regarding bugs or feature requests and he's been very responsive and receptive.
Peter has released 2 .X upgrades since I've purchased the program, which were free and painless to implement. The current version is 1.7, I believe.
Cons: the documentation is a little thin, and there are a few key operations that are pretty obtuse, like setting up an import filter for one of the supported file types (like *.SEC). In only runs on Windows NT/2K/XP etc. I've had difficulty printing a side-by-side subsector listing and map, a la Supplement 3 style, though that could be a quirk in my printing set-up.
Peter posts here at CotI as Hemidan or Hemdian, I believe, though I'm not sure how often he visits.
Astrosynthesis is a rather different beastie. As others have said, it's not intended for Traveller, but rather for generating and mapping 3-d stellar regions. The generation is supposed to be based on current science, though the program will do a bit of minor "terraforming" behind the scenes if a planet is close to the border between "habitable" and "hospitable". It's worth noting that "hospitable" does not mean "Earthlike" - Mars, for example, might fit the bill. The planetary generation is very detailed in some areas, but if you modify a planetary characteristic (for example, albedo) the program won't recalculate the affected values (or at least I haven't found a way to do so). One thing that is generated is atmospheric content, a nice touch, along with temperature ranges, hydrographic percentages, and the other usual items.
Astrosynthesis does generate populations for inhabited systems but nothing further in the way of government type, tech levels etc. It will occasionally place space stations as the sole point of habitation in a system. Inhabited systems may have their populations spread across multiple bodies in the system.
You can specify a cubical or spherical region to be generated and can select between several different levels (e.g., star positions only, stars, stars & systems, etc.) for the bulk generation. Generating a 200x200x200 parsec cube took about 10 minutes on my 1.8 GHz Pentium 4 w/ 1 GB of RAM.
You can specify allegiances for at least systems (I'm not sure if you can split the worlds of a system between different allegiances) and routes between systems can be designated. One feature I've found handy when playing around is the "proximity routes" feature, which will automatically generate and display routes based on criteria you enter. For example, you could have the system mark routes only between inhabited systems no more than 4 parsecs apart; the cross-roads systems will really leap out at you then.
While Universe's mapping stops at the subsector level, Astrosynthesis itself will generate contour maps for bodies (or at least cloud images for gas giants). You can export the contour maps to NBOS' Fractal World Explorer or Fractal Mapper.
You can add notes to planets and systems. I'm not sure if there is a feature analogous to the dual Referee / player modes of Universe.
There's a data import facility but I haven't looked into that at all yet.
Sooo... apples and oranges. For pure Traveller mapping, Universe is excellent. If you want to play around with a 3-D universe, Astrosynthesis might fit the bill, though I haven't looked into the freeware programs mentioned up-thread.
- John
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
I am going to expand a little on jappel excellent review.
<Edit!> You can specify allegiences of bodies within a system. The same way you specify for the system you go down to the body in question and edit the allegience field. </End Edit!>
Now if we stick with the default settings and allow a Jump drive to go all the way to jump number.9, so a J1 ship can go from 0 to 1.9 parsecs, etc. it actually gets close. An area 12 parsecs, by 10 parsecs by 10 parsecs generates, about the same number of populated systems as the Standard Traveller 40 parsecs by 28 parsecs. (And if you say the Traveller Sector is one parsec high it is a similar volume.) So I am getting closer to a playable Traveller Universe.
and you are done.
Now I am going to see if Astrosynthesis can use nbos' goblin api scripting and see if I can get it to generate Government, Tech Level, Starport and bases, and report Trade codes.
The best part of AS, IMHO, is the excellent support staff at nbos. These guys will help and response time is generally within a day.
Between work and getting my Traveller Campaign through the early stages (I had forgotten how much work it is to establish all the background material.) I haven't had enough time to properly play with Astrosynthesis. Even with the limited time I have had I am getting closer to the right settings and rule tweeks. With a little luck my next Traveller Campaign will be 3D thanks to Astrosynthesis.
Considering a good percentage of Traveller systems aren't habitable or even hospitable by normal definitions this isn't neccessarily a bad thing.
Which is similar to Traveller, though I am not sure how it comes up with its pop figures. All you will really still need at this end is three rolls, Govt, Tech Level and Starport type, then determine bases and read the stats to determine trade classifications. And many Traveller populated worlds aren't by any definition Habitable.
The program is definitely quick. I personally expected to let it run for hours with the amount of information and number of systems it is generating. I only have a Celeron M clocked at 1.4mhz, with 768 megs of RAM.(I guess I got used to Heaven and Earth which will run for hours generating a sector from a sec file then crash part way though after running for a few hours.)
Wouldn't that fall under system government? (Which we already discussed that the system doesn't do.)
<Edit!> You can specify allegiences of bodies within a system. The same way you specify for the system you go down to the body in question and edit the allegience field. </End Edit!>
This is the feature that I have been using to try to get a playable Traveller Universe out of it. In Traveller the average stellar density, if you stay out of the rifts, is about one system every 2.55 parsecs. Now going 3D I expected some problems, but tweeking it so your populated systems come out about right is getting to be a nightmare.
Now if we stick with the default settings and allow a Jump drive to go all the way to jump number.9, so a J1 ship can go from 0 to 1.9 parsecs, etc. it actually gets close. An area 12 parsecs, by 10 parsecs by 10 parsecs generates, about the same number of populated systems as the Standard Traveller 40 parsecs by 28 parsecs. (And if you say the Traveller Sector is one parsec high it is a similar volume.) So I am getting closer to a playable Traveller Universe.Actually Fractal World Explorer is included with Astrosynthesis and generates worlds down to the contour levels for export into Fractal Mapper, so you can get to the real details of the planet if you like. Or if you happen to have Fractal Terrains Pro (Recent Build) and CC2 Pro with the Cosmographer add on, you can have Astrosynthesis pass the planets to Fractal Terrains for generation, then dump them right into CC2 Pro in Traveller world map format. Just add the Starport, any spaceports, settlements and points of interest
and you are done.
Now I am going to see if Astrosynthesis can use nbos' goblin api scripting and see if I can get it to generate Government, Tech Level, Starport and bases, and report Trade codes.
In many ways it is better than that, you can add, either with Fractal Mapper or CC2 whole world maps as part of these "notes," which the software will generate and keep persistent for you. Both Fractal Mapper and CC2 Pro allow you to have hidden GM areas, and almost more importantly easy porting to GRIP or ScreenMonkey for an Online RPG.
Thanks John for the excellent review. I hope you don't mind me expanding on what i have discovered in terms of Traveller use for Astrosynthesis.
The best part of AS, IMHO, is the excellent support staff at nbos. These guys will help and response time is generally within a day.
Between work and getting my Traveller Campaign through the early stages (I had forgotten how much work it is to establish all the background material.) I haven't had enough time to properly play with Astrosynthesis. Even with the limited time I have had I am getting closer to the right settings and rule tweeks. With a little luck my next Traveller Campaign will be 3D thanks to Astrosynthesis.
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
A note on sizes. An Astrosynthesis Sector that is 10 x 10 x 12 is 1200 cubic Parsecs vs. 1120 Square Parsecs. This will allow 16 Subsectors, at 5 x 5 x 3 or 75 cubic parsecs vs approximately 70 square parsecs. The standard settings give you about the same populated system density, or approximately 400 systems in a sector. Now for lower jump ships travel is more difficult in this volume given approximately equal density but higher jump ships zip across the region at a much faster pace.
The key points are information is going to travel allot faster and Military ships are going to be much more responsive, but Merchant Shipping will have a more difficult time. This is where I am having a problem striking a balance to keep the Traveller feel.
One other point. Astrosynthesis only allows 2 levels, Sector and Subsector. And you can't stack Sectors. So you couldn't do, for example, Known Universe, Domain, Sector and Subsector. You can't create two sectors and cross between them. So you need to start at the biggest level you think you are going to need and provide yourself a cushion around it.
The following is theoretical and definitely untested by me.
What you may be able to do, since Astrosynthesis allows you to import data, is to create your sectors, then import them into bigger Sectors.
Say for example you create 4 sectors named Ley, Gateway, Glimerdrift Reaches and Crusis Margin and they are all 10 x 10 x 12 parsecs. You might be able to then create a Sector Named Gateway Domain, that is 20 x 20 x 12 parsecs and import the data from Ley into the top left 10 x 10 x 12, Gateway into the top right 10 x 10 x 12, etc. But I haven't gotten that far, yet. If that worked you could then, in theory create a sector named Known Universe and import say Gateway Domain, Domain of Deneb, Domain of Sylea etc. But you couldn't take the big map and break it back down to the individual Regina Subsector/Spinward Marches/Domain of Deneb. (Though I guess you could get really complicated with the allegiences function.) You also couldn't use Spherical Sectors, they wouldn't line up nicely.
The key points are information is going to travel allot faster and Military ships are going to be much more responsive, but Merchant Shipping will have a more difficult time. This is where I am having a problem striking a balance to keep the Traveller feel.
One other point. Astrosynthesis only allows 2 levels, Sector and Subsector. And you can't stack Sectors. So you couldn't do, for example, Known Universe, Domain, Sector and Subsector. You can't create two sectors and cross between them. So you need to start at the biggest level you think you are going to need and provide yourself a cushion around it.
The following is theoretical and definitely untested by me.
What you may be able to do, since Astrosynthesis allows you to import data, is to create your sectors, then import them into bigger Sectors.
Say for example you create 4 sectors named Ley, Gateway, Glimerdrift Reaches and Crusis Margin and they are all 10 x 10 x 12 parsecs. You might be able to then create a Sector Named Gateway Domain, that is 20 x 20 x 12 parsecs and import the data from Ley into the top left 10 x 10 x 12, Gateway into the top right 10 x 10 x 12, etc. But I haven't gotten that far, yet. If that worked you could then, in theory create a sector named Known Universe and import say Gateway Domain, Domain of Deneb, Domain of Sylea etc. But you couldn't take the big map and break it back down to the individual Regina Subsector/Spinward Marches/Domain of Deneb. (Though I guess you could get really complicated with the allegiences function.) You also couldn't use Spherical Sectors, they wouldn't line up nicely.
Bhoins,
I don't mind at all. I certainly learned a few things from your expansions! Haven't played with AS enough to really get a handle on all of it's capabilities.
Your comments about the habitability of most Traveller worlds are correct. From my brief explorations it seems that AS gives preference to putting populations on hospitable worlds, then habitable worlds, then sticking stations occasionally in systems without one or the other. Does this match your experience?
Regarding size - I'd been musing on this and my thoughts seem to be heading down the same path you've taken. The population becomes much more concentrated, and some of the feeling that the powers that be are really far, far away fades. I've been contemplating shifting my homebrew TU into a 3D universe, but this is obviously going to take some thought and a good deal of revision.
Regards,
John
I don't mind at all. I certainly learned a few things from your expansions! Haven't played with AS enough to really get a handle on all of it's capabilities.
Your comments about the habitability of most Traveller worlds are correct. From my brief explorations it seems that AS gives preference to putting populations on hospitable worlds, then habitable worlds, then sticking stations occasionally in systems without one or the other. Does this match your experience?
Regarding size - I'd been musing on this and my thoughts seem to be heading down the same path you've taken. The population becomes much more concentrated, and some of the feeling that the powers that be are really far, far away fades. I've been contemplating shifting my homebrew TU into a 3D universe, but this is obviously going to take some thought and a good deal of revision.
Regards,
John
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
One other point I have noticed with Astrosynthesis. YOu can get plenty of worlds that are under 1000 in population, Most populated worlds fall under 10,000, with the occasional world getting as high as a couple hundred thousand. Getting up to a million happens about one chance in about 400, I have yet to see 100 million or more, though I have been told it definitely happens.
AstroSynthesis ver 2 is supposed to have a scripting interface so you can generate government type, tech level, etc. YOu might even be able to tweek the pop numbers to be more travelleresque. Matter of fact you should even be able to generate encounter tables, for local flora and fauna.
If ver 2 works the way it has potential to work, then once it comes out the key will be to get the specs right to generate a Universe, that is 3D with a Traveller feel.
I have also thought of a fix for the two levels and the limited number of Subsectors per sector.
You should be able to use the sphere of influence function to mark smaller political entities. Now the Sphere has to be centered on an actual body/system, but there is nothing stopping you from setting up a becon in the center of the region you want to delineate and set your sphere from that. (You can use a spacestation or even a rogue planetoid.)
BetterThanLife
SOC-14 1K
You can generate a sector with a 1 parsec height, but why would you want to? There are plenty of sector generation programs out there that work in 2 dimensions and do it for Traveller, using the traveller rule system to generate your systems. The allure for Astrosynthesis is realistic 3D space.
BTW after further experimentation, I have found that the trade will work similar to Traveller if you allow Jump Drives to go to the .9 of the next drive. SO a Jump 1 drive will carry you from 0-1.9 parsecs out. Jump to up to 2.9, etc. The only problem you are now dealing with is the comms and military vessels are still going to travel much faster than in the OTU.
