Robots for "Backwater"

[kilemall]

Not sure if I agree or disagree (I never gave it any thought). In a real sense, you PAY THROUGH THE NOSE for the ROBOT "INT".

Using my INT = Skill Level Limit, Here is the cost for the "brain" that can learn the skill (any skill):
TL 8 Low Logic (INT 0 = skill-0) = Cr 5150
TL 9 High Logic (INT 1 = skill-1) = Cr 59,500
TL 10 Advanced High Logic (INT 2 = skill-2) = Cr 107,000

Each Basic Skill Module to RUN the skill costs Cr 2000, and some skills require 6 modules to run (Cr 12,000) ... PER LEVEL OF SKILL!

Then the basic SKILL program costs a mere Cr 400 per BSM for the program cassette.

The cheapest Skill-0 is Cr 7550 (5150+2000+400) and the most expensive Skill-0 is Cr 19,550 (5150+12000+2400).
The cheapest Skill-1 is Cr 61,900 (59500+2000+400) and the most expensive Skill-1 is Cr 73,900 (59500+12000+2400).
The cheapest Skill-2 is Cr 111,800 (107000+4000+800) and the most expensive Skill-2 is Cr 135,800 (107000+24000+4800).

These are just DUMB AS DIRT workers able to do the task with supervision. True AI Robot Brains are going to get a LOT more expensive quickly (but TL 11 is SOTA on the current planet, so I didn't need them in the game yet).

You are correct that those prices are a lot lower than the Starship Programs ... unless the Starship Programs are hardware modules that include a ROBOT Logic, Storage Modules and Program into a plug-able hardware. You are not slotting a PROGRAM on your Starship, but slotting an AI add-on to your mainframe.

Good reasoning but LBB2 computer ops has programs in storage or execution in CPU, with an option to swap programs out/into the system in a 1000s turn- a bit faster then slotting cards (unless you are thinking something like the ROM cartridges).

Hmm, otoh M2 SSD internal drives are memory stick sized and in the terabytes. Perhaps something slottable is doable.

Just another thought on skill vs the INT/EDU CPU/STORAGE paradigm- the way I treat intellectual skills for characters is they can use INT or EDU. The difference though is that INT is usable for generating new knowledge or solving a fast moving chaotic problem, whereas EDU is using training and book knowledge to solve known issues.

So a shade tree mechanic with high INT but low EDU might solve or invent something new, but may not be able to architect an engine model of existing standards. But that architect may not be able to create a new innovation if it’s not linear. The mechanical engineer who creates a new engine likely has high skill, INT and EDU.

So perhaps a model that squares real world capability with game mechanics is that ‘AI’ drones or whatever are low INT but high EDU, cause storage is cheap and low tech and the LLMs powering all this are really building databases of skill but not necessarily problem solving.

 

[Grav_Moped]

Meanwhile here at TL7 the Ukrainians are using AI enabled drones.
The drone AI has been taught (wonder where the data came from) to fly a complete mission without human supervision...

Not terribly complex. GPS location of start/return, GPS location of likely target, and basic collision avoidance based on forward camera image (possibly using inertial navigation instead...). Training data gives the characteristics of "this is what a target looks like" and it's just a matter of picking a target's characteristics out of the target-acquisition video stream.

This isn't some "murder-suicide sophont" thing. GPS navigation/autopilot has been solved for a while now (for model-plane sized aircraft and few obstacles); the only hard part is target recognition, and algorithmic pattern-matching is one of the things that "AI" is good at.

The bells and whistles of evasive maneuvering while in transit, and obstacle avoidance in terrain-following mode, are additional possible refinements.

 

[Grav_Moped]

These are ground attack drones.

The current crop of AI controlled F-16s are beating human pilots now. Why do you think they sent F-16s to Ukraine? So they can get real world data to train the AIs, and possibly combat test the drone F-16

No one dogfights anymore - air to air combat consists of firing a missile from 200+ km away, actually make that half a dozen per target. The USAF is considering the B-21 for the air superiority role.

"One for you, one for you... oh -- tricky! Here, have another one. Let's see, we're down to thirty-two left... who's next?"

 

[Grav_Moped]

Let's put this on a BRONZE PLAQUE.
It keeps getting trotted out every "generation" of Aircraft until war proves it wrong.

In Vietnam, the issue was that missiles just didn't live up to their promises. *

Later, the problem became one of target identification beyond visual range -- which may or may not be an issue in future combat depending on rules of engagement.

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*My "favorite" 1960s solution to the shortcomings of air-to-air missile technology was the MB-1/AIR-2 Genie (wikipedia). No guidance system, just a rocket motor and a 1.5kt nuclear warhead. Because "close" only counts for horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

 

[Condottiere]

More likely, mid course correction.

 

[Rupert]

In Vietnam, the issue was that missiles just didn't live up to their promises. *

To be fair, the missiles available to start were intended for anti-strategic bomber work, not for shooting down agile fighters. One does wonder at the decision-making process that arrived at the conclusion that only such weapons would be necessary for all US fighters.

 

[Grav_Moped]

To be fair, the missiles available to start were intended for anti-strategic bomber work, not for shooting down agile fighters. One does wonder at the decision-making process that arrived at the conclusion that only such weapons would be necessary for all US fighters.

1. They're cost-intensive, but eliminate a huge logistics tail.
2. The Next War was going to have been The Big One. Stop the bombers and nothing else matters. (Then came ICBMS and SLBMs...).

 

[Condottiere]

Assuming lessons from the Great Patriotic War and Korea, window of opportunity to shoot something, and effective weapon system.

Possibly, one shot, one kill.

Fire and forget.

And then it turns out, that if the enemy can get within knife range without detection, you suddenly have blindspots.