Bolter and Bolter II Fighters

[skyth]

After hearing some discussion about TL 15 fighters being useless, I bring up the following two designs:

The original Bolter, and the upsized Bolter II. The Bolter II includes a bridge, but has no armor.

Ship: Bolter
Class: Bolter Fighter
Type: Fighter
Architect: Skyth
Tech Level: 15

USP
EX-0406Q71-900000-00003-0 MCr 161.525 50 Tons
Bat Bear 1 Crew: 1
Bat 1 TL: 15

Cargo: 0.000 Fuel: 12.000 EP: 12.000 Agility: 6
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 1.615 Cost in Quantity: MCr 129.220


Detailed Description

HULL
50.000 tons standard, 700.000 cubic meters, Close Structure Configuration

CREW
Pilot

ENGINEERING
Jump-0, 6G Manuever, Power plant-24, 12.000 EP, Agility 6

AVIONICS
No Bridge Installed, Model/8 Computer

HARDPOINTS
1 Hardpoint

ARMAMENT
1 Triple Missile Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-3)

DEFENCES
Armoured Hull (Factor-9)

FUEL
12.000 Tons Fuel (0 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
1 Acceleration Couch, 0.000 Ton Cargo

COST
MCr 163.140 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 1.615), MCr 129.220 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
24 Weeks Singly, 19 Weeks in Quantity


Ship: Bolter II
Class: Bolter II Fighter
Type: Fighter
Architect: Skyth
Tech Level: 15

USP
EX-0406M81-000000-00003-0 MCr 159.050 60 Tons
Bat Bear 1 Crew: 1
Bat 1 TL: 15

Cargo: 0.600 Fuel: 12.600 EP: 12.600 Agility: 6
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops

Architects Fee: MCr 1.591 Cost in Quantity: MCr 127.240


Detailed Description

HULL
60.000 tons standard, 840.000 cubic meters, Close Structure Configuration

CREW
Pilot

ENGINEERING
Jump-0, 6G Manuever, Power plant-21, 12.600 EP, Agility 6

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/8 Computer

HARDPOINTS
1 Hardpoint

ARMAMENT
1 Triple Missile Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-3)

DEFENCES
None

FUEL
12.600 Tons Fuel (0 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, No Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
2 Acceleration Couches, 0.600 Ton Cargo

COST
MCr 160.641 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 1.591), MCr 127.240 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
27 Weeks Singly, 22 Weeks in Quantity

 

[atpollard]

I believe that the basic point of "useless fighters" would be ... What are the odds of a factor 3 missile battery hitting a 10,000 ton TL 15 warship and inflicting damage? How many fighters will be disabled or destroyed by the Warship's return fire?

In HG, a size 0 fighter will take 1 critical hit per weapon factor, so even another fighter with a factor 3 missile battery will inflict 3 critical damages per sucessful hit.

I suggest picking a ship and playing out the combat in HG. The bias in the HG combat rules should quickly become obvious.

 

[skyth]

Looking at the numbers, against armor-15, damper-9, and computer-9, there is no way that a missile fighter can actually damage a main ship. Mine can at least hit...They just can't do anything once they hit.

 

[atpollard]

Remember that the flaw is in the HG combat, not in the actual ships.
Logic tells you that if 1 million fighters shoot 3 million nuclear missiles at a single ship, some will hit and those that hit will damage the ship.

HG is designed to make fleet vs fleet combat possible (would you want to roll 3 million 'to hit' rolls per combat turn?) and the extremes (like fighters vs dreadnaughts) were a casualty to the simplifications necessary to make that possible.

Also, the +/- 9 modifier for a Model 9 computer quickly breaks the 2D6 curve.

Rerun your combat with 2 small changes and see what happens:
HR 1: a roll of exactly 12 always hits (no impossible to hit).
HR 2: any 'hit' does at least 1 dTon of damage (no impossible to harm).

 

[skyth]

My fighters can actually hit That's what they were designed for. The issue is getting through the dampers...

What do you mean by 1 dton of damage?

 

[atpollard]

What do you mean by 1 dton of damage?

Every time the damage table tells you "No Effect", ignore the table and apply some minimal damage to the ship - use the LBB2 damage location table if you want. So a normal "Hit" might destroy 10% of the fuel (as an example), but a "No Effect" Hit would only destroy 1 dTon of fuel (or use 1% if you prefer).

The goal is to eliminate the 'I have so much armor that you can never damage me' scenario by making every hit do some damage. Let a swarm of fighters nibble away on the big ship.