Book 2: Shipbuilding standard hulls 800 dton+

[Hal]

Has anyone noted that for hulls 800 dtons and up, that there is no financial benefit for having standard hulls? Did anyone note too that the only benefit for having a standard Hull for 800 or 1000 dtons is in the time it takes to fabricate the hulls?

I find it kind of odd in that were I a customer at the shipyards, I'd be saying...

"let me see if I get this straight. If I build a custom 800 dton hull, it will cost me 80 MCr and take 28 months to build. If I purchase a standard hull, it is going to cost me 80 Mcr and take only 25 months to build? Something smells in the Duke's palace if you ask me..."

 

[Hal]

Has anyone noted that for hulls 800 dtons and up, that there is no financial benefit for having standard hulls? Did anyone note too that the only benefit for having a standard Hull for 800 or 1000 dtons is in the time it takes to fabricate the hulls?

I find it kind of odd in that were I a customer at the shipyards, I'd be saying...

"let me see if I get this straight. If I build a custom 800 dton hull, it will cost me 80 MCr and take 28 months to build. If I purchase a standard hull, it is going to cost me 80 Mcr and take only 25 months to build? Something smells in the Duke's palace if you ask me..."

 

[SGavorsky]

Originally posted by Hal:
Has anyone noted that for hulls 800 dtons and up, that there is no financial benefit for having standard hulls? Did anyone note too that the only benefit for having a standard Hull for 800 or 1000 dtons is in the time it takes to fabricate the hulls?

I find it kind of odd in that were I a customer at the shipyards, I'd be saying...

"let me see if I get this straight. If I build a custom 800 dton hull, it will cost me 80 MCr and take 28 months to build. If I purchase a standard hull, it is going to cost me 80 Mcr and take only 25 months to build? Something smells in the Duke's palace if you ask me..."

Just found this topic looking for something else.

Never noticed this, but I can see it making sense. A standard design might take advantage of standard parts, ways of making subassemblies, already having tooling jigs/forms ready to go, etc. Hence the time savings. However, above the 800 dton range, the standardization financial savings is offset by having to use larger or more specialized equipment (huge cranes, specialized dock space for that size, etc) that are more costly to operate.

 

[SGavorsky]

Originally posted by Hal:
Has anyone noted that for hulls 800 dtons and up, that there is no financial benefit for having standard hulls? Did anyone note too that the only benefit for having a standard Hull for 800 or 1000 dtons is in the time it takes to fabricate the hulls?

I find it kind of odd in that were I a customer at the shipyards, I'd be saying...

"let me see if I get this straight. If I build a custom 800 dton hull, it will cost me 80 MCr and take 28 months to build. If I purchase a standard hull, it is going to cost me 80 Mcr and take only 25 months to build? Something smells in the Duke's palace if you ask me..."

Just found this topic looking for something else.

Never noticed this, but I can see it making sense. A standard design might take advantage of standard parts, ways of making subassemblies, already having tooling jigs/forms ready to go, etc. Hence the time savings. However, above the 800 dton range, the standardization financial savings is offset by having to use larger or more specialized equipment (huge cranes, specialized dock space for that size, etc) that are more costly to operate.

 

[RandyT0001]

Originally posted by Hal:
Did anyone note too that the only benefit for having a standard Hull for 800 or 1000 dtons is in the time it takes to fabricate the hulls?

The standard hull has only 165 dtons for engineering space. This section can only be used for drives and if your drives do not take up the entire space the remaining is wasted. If you want to put in drives that take more space than 165 dtons (like V drives maneuver, PP, and jump) then the only way to do this is by using a custom hull.

 

[RandyT0001]

Originally posted by Hal:
Did anyone note too that the only benefit for having a standard Hull for 800 or 1000 dtons is in the time it takes to fabricate the hulls?

The standard hull has only 165 dtons for engineering space. This section can only be used for drives and if your drives do not take up the entire space the remaining is wasted. If you want to put in drives that take more space than 165 dtons (like V drives maneuver, PP, and jump) then the only way to do this is by using a custom hull.

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Hal:
"let me see if I get this straight. If I build a custom 800 dton hull, it will cost me 80 MCr and take 28 months to build. If I purchase a standard hull, it is going to cost me 80 Mcr and take only 25 months to build? Something smells in the Duke's palace if you ask me..."

The yard boss, scratches his head, squints a little. "Well, that smell is Her Grace's skin condition," he smiles. "Very tragic."

He taps a forefinger on the production schedules scattered across his desk. "You see, if you choose the standard hull, I've already got all the special jigs and fixtures. That includes all the necessary lifting rig for hull sections and internal componenets too. Heck, we've even got some components prefabricated.

He shifts his cigar to the other side of his mouth. "With a standard hull my boys know where all the conduits, cabling, and accessways need to be. Same with all your subsystems. No matter what you want to put in it, they already know how it's all going to fit. You may have some crackerjack naval architect's plans, paid plenty for them too, but there's always trouble with the fit up. When paper meets reality as it were.

He leans back in his chair and folds his hands across his belly. "Shipbuilding is an extremely complicated three dimensional jigsaw puzzle. If we forget to install something we just can't stick it in later. Just for starters, there most likely might not the room in the hull to maneuver what ever we forgot into its proper place. We put the hull and the internals of the ship together at the same time. If we gotta install something we forgot or something we thought would fit but won't, we might have to partially disassemble the ship to put things right."

He taps some cigar ash onto the construction shack floor. "So you see, you choose a standard hull and we already know how to build her. Choose a custom hull and we gotta learn as we go. That's your time savings right there."

"One important thing about a standard hull however. He holds up a big forefinger. Your engineering space is fixed. No way around it. You only got so much displacment to work with. Need more? Can't have it. Don't use it all? It's wasted 'cause you can't use it for anything else.

"So," he smiles leaning over his cluttered desk, "you want a custom hull or a standard one?"


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by Hal:
"let me see if I get this straight. If I build a custom 800 dton hull, it will cost me 80 MCr and take 28 months to build. If I purchase a standard hull, it is going to cost me 80 Mcr and take only 25 months to build? Something smells in the Duke's palace if you ask me..."

The yard boss, scratches his head, squints a little. "Well, that smell is Her Grace's skin condition," he smiles. "Very tragic."

He taps a forefinger on the production schedules scattered across his desk. "You see, if you choose the standard hull, I've already got all the special jigs and fixtures. That includes all the necessary lifting rig for hull sections and internal componenets too. Heck, we've even got some components prefabricated.

He shifts his cigar to the other side of his mouth. "With a standard hull my boys know where all the conduits, cabling, and accessways need to be. Same with all your subsystems. No matter what you want to put in it, they already know how it's all going to fit. You may have some crackerjack naval architect's plans, paid plenty for them too, but there's always trouble with the fit up. When paper meets reality as it were.

He leans back in his chair and folds his hands across his belly. "Shipbuilding is an extremely complicated three dimensional jigsaw puzzle. If we forget to install something we just can't stick it in later. Just for starters, there most likely might not the room in the hull to maneuver what ever we forgot into its proper place. We put the hull and the internals of the ship together at the same time. If we gotta install something we forgot or something we thought would fit but won't, we might have to partially disassemble the ship to put things right."

He taps some cigar ash onto the construction shack floor. "So you see, you choose a standard hull and we already know how to build her. Choose a custom hull and we gotta learn as we go. That's your time savings right there."

"One important thing about a standard hull however. He holds up a big forefinger. Your engineering space is fixed. No way around it. You only got so much displacment to work with. Need more? Can't have it. Don't use it all? It's wasted 'cause you can't use it for anything else.

"So," he smiles leaning over his cluttered desk, "you want a custom hull or a standard one?"


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Pickles]

The heat of the twin suns beating on the plascrete outside the office is easily defeated by the office's aircon. There's another reason for the red colour rising to the merchant's face.

"So, you're telling me you're going to charge me MCr80 for my hull, whether you spend 25 months or 28 months building it? Do you standard hull welders get paid higher salaries, or what?"

The yard boss, impervious, spreads his ham-like hands.

"It's the way of the imperial economy, my friend. You should be used to it, with your nonsensical 'per jump' shipping charges."

 

[Pickles]

The heat of the twin suns beating on the plascrete outside the office is easily defeated by the office's aircon. There's another reason for the red colour rising to the merchant's face.

"So, you're telling me you're going to charge me MCr80 for my hull, whether you spend 25 months or 28 months building it? Do you standard hull welders get paid higher salaries, or what?"

The yard boss, impervious, spreads his ham-like hands.

"It's the way of the imperial economy, my friend. You should be used to it, with your nonsensical 'per jump' shipping charges."

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by the Bromgrev:
"So, you're telling me you're going to charge me MCr80 for my hull, whether you spend 25 months or 28 months building it? Do you standard hull welders get paid higher salaries, or what?"

The yard boss, impervious, spreads his ham-like hands.

"The way of the Imperial economy? Hardly. It's the way of ANY economy, my friend. You charge what the market will bear. You should be used to it, seeing as you do it all the time with your speculative cargos."

The yard boss pulls the cigar out of his mouth, blows a smoke ring, and watches it float to the shack's ceiling. "Tell me, do you always have the SAME profit margin on every shipment? Don't you make 5% here, 10% there, and 15% some place else? Well it's the same with these hulls."

Sticking the cigar back in his mouth, he smiles around it. "I'll admit it. Our profit margins on standard hulls are higher than our margins on custom hulls. It just isn't labor, parts, and a standard percentage. We charge more per dTon-week for a standard than a custom. Why? There's a couple reasons."

He counts off on his fingers. "First, we know we're going to build a certain numbers of standards each year. The number crunchers got it down to three decimal places and, year in and year out, we hit that number or the two either side of it. Second, because what we'll make in standard sales is so certain, we use those sales to partially subsidize the rest of the yard's operations. We want to make customs, we learn from them after all. So, we cut our profit margin on customs in order to attract that business and use the standards to pick up the slack. Third, we make up what we 'lose' on custom hulls in what we charge for custom components. You purchase and fit out a standard hull and you're looking at a 10% savings over all the same components in a custom hull. We make it up on the back end."

The yard boss leans back in his chair again and folds his hands across his belly. "Now you do the exact same thing with your speculative cargos, don't you. If Whangan neck sleeves are going for 25 credits apiece on Regina, you don't sell them for only 15 credits each 'cause that's the price on Mora. And you don't always add the same mark-up on your cargos. If you can get 10%, you'll take it and grumble. If you can get 20%, you'll take it and smile. And if you can get 100%, you'll take it and jump for joy. So grousing about my various profit margins is just being a poor sport."

He flicks more ashes on the floor. "So, what's going to be? Custom or standard?"


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by the Bromgrev:
"So, you're telling me you're going to charge me MCr80 for my hull, whether you spend 25 months or 28 months building it? Do you standard hull welders get paid higher salaries, or what?"

The yard boss, impervious, spreads his ham-like hands.

"The way of the Imperial economy? Hardly. It's the way of ANY economy, my friend. You charge what the market will bear. You should be used to it, seeing as you do it all the time with your speculative cargos."

The yard boss pulls the cigar out of his mouth, blows a smoke ring, and watches it float to the shack's ceiling. "Tell me, do you always have the SAME profit margin on every shipment? Don't you make 5% here, 10% there, and 15% some place else? Well it's the same with these hulls."

Sticking the cigar back in his mouth, he smiles around it. "I'll admit it. Our profit margins on standard hulls are higher than our margins on custom hulls. It just isn't labor, parts, and a standard percentage. We charge more per dTon-week for a standard than a custom. Why? There's a couple reasons."

He counts off on his fingers. "First, we know we're going to build a certain numbers of standards each year. The number crunchers got it down to three decimal places and, year in and year out, we hit that number or the two either side of it. Second, because what we'll make in standard sales is so certain, we use those sales to partially subsidize the rest of the yard's operations. We want to make customs, we learn from them after all. So, we cut our profit margin on customs in order to attract that business and use the standards to pick up the slack. Third, we make up what we 'lose' on custom hulls in what we charge for custom components. You purchase and fit out a standard hull and you're looking at a 10% savings over all the same components in a custom hull. We make it up on the back end."

The yard boss leans back in his chair again and folds his hands across his belly. "Now you do the exact same thing with your speculative cargos, don't you. If Whangan neck sleeves are going for 25 credits apiece on Regina, you don't sell them for only 15 credits each 'cause that's the price on Mora. And you don't always add the same mark-up on your cargos. If you can get 10%, you'll take it and grumble. If you can get 20%, you'll take it and smile. And if you can get 100%, you'll take it and jump for joy. So grousing about my various profit margins is just being a poor sport."

He flicks more ashes on the floor. "So, what's going to be? Custom or standard?"


Have fun,
Bill

 

[atpollard]

The real question is not "Why are 1000 dTon standard hulls so expensive?", but "Why are 100 dTon standard hulls so cheap?" At those discounts in time and money, they must be stamping the hull out of one piece of metal.

 

[atpollard]

The real question is not "Why are 1000 dTon standard hulls so expensive?", but "Why are 100 dTon standard hulls so cheap?" At those discounts in time and money, they must be stamping the hull out of one piece of metal.

 

[aramis]

atpollard:

I suddenly am having images of 3-piece die-cast Type-S hulls... bottom two, top two, and back-plate... and bolted together...
Kinda like the model Star Destroyer I once built.

 

[aramis]

atpollard:

I suddenly am having images of 3-piece die-cast Type-S hulls... bottom two, top two, and back-plate... and bolted together...
Kinda like the model Star Destroyer I once built.