Book 2: Starship Combat

[boomslang]

So, after a pretty nice conversation (thanks everyone), it sounds like Book 2 starship combat did have a couple of things missing that I missed back 25+ years ago as a kid. Folks got around this by grafting in other rules.

In general, you want playability to be the bottom line.

The speed (and guidance) of your missiles will make the most difference; these days I lean towards 5Gs for 5 turns with a 'Crazy Ivan' sensor that disarms them if they veer more that 180 degrees off of their launch vector.

What missile parameters you settle on will shape all combat tactics. And bear in mind that missiles are 'cheap' at KCr5 apiece, so they should not be über-torpedoes... they are grenades on the end of bottle rockets that you can hurl at a spacecraft a light-second or so away to inflict serious damage on it from up to 2500 km away when the warhead is detonated, and that's impressive enough right there. See Special Supplement 3 for how zany missiles can get with a little effort.

Also to consider: can lasers and missiles target enemy missiles in the regular Friendly Fire Phase? An additional DM of -3 on lasers when trying to shoot missiles in regular combat? Food for thought.

Note also that sand, stackable or not, needs dissipate after a while (one turn suits MTU), or else it becomes too cost-effective. You want the supply of available reloads to be quickly dwindling as your players grunt and heave to keep the turrets stocked.

Also, IMTU, I allow Ship Tactics as a DM on ECM rolls (for both sides), which is always a real nail-biter. And I let Anti-Missile Fire be conducted by unmanned laser turrets since the Gunners are out of the loop on the process anyway, which creates opportunities for friendly fire if your wingman is too tight on you...

 

[Darley51]

Range to "Target"

(Tangent Question....)

What do you do for determining range to the other vessel when you "encounter" it... do you have a random roll/hand wave or do you have a more formalized method for determining how far away is the Corsair/Subbie/SDB when you roll for a ship encounter?o:

Yes, I know that there is a maximum distance for ship sensors (military vs civilian), but when the referee says something to the effect of "ship detected" (and he rolled for a hostile/attacks immediately reaction) - other than a hand wave... how far away is he (if it's at the limit of sensor range... is space combat a realistic result rather than "I see him, but I'm going to run and try to get within the protective range of that orbital platform before he can catch me...):nonono:

[I'm looking for a realistic, consistent method for determining range that doesn't appear overly capricious/lenient to the vict... er, players.]:smirk:

What are your thoughts?

 

[DaveChase]

I think something to consider also is
That military ships normally have someone (or system) dedicated to looking for other ships (things floating in space).
A civilian ship with a large enough crew might have a dedicated person watching sensors.
It is common (IMTU) that most all crews have someone on sensors when they come out of Jump. The reason is that they have to figure out where they are and plot to get where they are going.

It is also common that they (civilian crews since most have militiary navy training) watch the sensor closer or more regularly when approaching known objects like a planet, asteroids, spaceport, etc

Dave Chase

 

[Supplement Four]

If you've got the CT CD-ROM, don't forget to look at the Special Supplement detailing missiles.

It answers all questions about missiles in Book 2 CT combat, and it even provides rules for constructing your own customized missiles.

 

[sabredog]

I do this:

Traveller Ship Combat Conventions

Expanded and modified High Guard/LBB2 rules to allow for small ship (5000 tons or less) combat.


Weapon Rules

Missiles – Per LBB2 missiles will always hit the target unless stopped by countermeasures. Missiles are fired at end of turn, and hit at end of following turn.

• ECM program stops all incoming missiles currently in flight on a roll of 7+
• Anti-Missile: Lasers can destroy one incoming missile on a roll of 8+ (+1/2 Gunnery skill, and +1 per laser in turret above the first one). Lasers used to fire on enemy targets are allowed to fire on incoming missiles.
• Sandcasters: Each incoming missile must save at 11- on 2D6 if sand is fired


Missile Types – Missiles may be fired from turrets or bays. Bay missiles (commonly called torpedoes) cannot be fired from turrets, but can be launched from ordnance hardpoints on small craft so equipped, i.e. FA-6 Avenger Torpedo/Bomber. A 50-ton missile bay fires 2 torpedoes at a time, a 100-ton bay fires 4.

• Standard HE: does 1D6 hits (less armor) applied randomly
• Standard HEAP: does 4 points damage (less armor) to one location
• HE Torpedo: as standard HE, but 3D6 hits
• HEAP Torpedo: 8 points damage (less armor) to one location


Energy Weapons – Each turret rolls only once to hit a target. All fired energy weapons in the turret hit on that single roll. For example, a triple laser turret firing all its weapons rolls once to hit, and then once on the location table for 3 points of damage against that location less armor.
• Beam Lasers – Beam lasers hit at 8+ (+/- appropriate DM) and do 1 point of damage each.
• Pulse Lasers – Pulse lasers hit at 10+ (+/- appropriate DM) and do 2 points damage each.
• Plasma / Fusion Guns – Both are short range weapons that can be fired from turrets and bays. Plasma guns do 3 points each, Fusion guns do 4. Bay versions are increased by 2 points.
• Particle Accelerator Weapons (PAW)-
• PAW turrets do 4 points damage (less armor) plus both crew and computer must save 9+ to avoid radiation damage. If failed the computer takes 1 point damage, crew take 1D6.
• PAW barbettes do 6 points (less armor) and 2 points/2D6 radiation damage
• PAW Bays 50-ton bays do 8 points damage (less armor) plus 4 points / 3D6 radiation damage. 100-ton bays do 12 points damage (less armor) plus 6 points/4D6 radiation damage.
Personal armor reduces radiation by that armor’s point value.

Sandcasters – Sand will stop incoming laser fire at a rate of I canister of sand per laser stopped. For example: a triple laser turret would do 3 points damage if it hit, but only 1 point if 2 canisters of sand had been fired.

• Sand is launched at the end of the turn and counts towards the next round of laser fire.
• Sand only lasts one round of laser fire.
• Launchers may only launch one canister per turn.
• Sand will not stop fusion/plasma guns or PAW fire.


Armor – Ships may be armored per High Guard rules.


Boarding Actions

In all matters concerning maneuver the ship with the highest agility rating will dictate the range between ships.

To board another ship, its vector and velocity must be matched. To force a boarding the attacking vessel must have a higher agility than the target. If this is the case then the pilot of the boarding vessel must roll 10+ (plus Pilot or Small Craft skill as DM) to match course and lock the craft together.

The high roll is to simulate any desperate maneuvering the target ship may try at the last minute.


Damage Control

Critical hits may not be repaired since the damage has destroyed the component.

Components damaged to zero cannot be temporarily repaired more than to half their original value. For example: a Jump-2 drive damaged to 0 and then repaired will only function as Jump-1 until permanent repairs can be made.

Turrets hit twice are destroyed and may not be repaired,

All repairs are considered temporary only and will fail after the next jump unless more permanent repairs can be made in a shipyard.

The time required to make a repair is equal to 2D6 combat man-turns minus appropriate skill level. For example: the Jump Drive takes two points damage in combat. The Engineer rolls 2D6 and gets 5…less Engineer-3 equals 2 combat man-turns to patch things up. It means the Engineer will need 2 turns working by himself, or only 1 if another character with Engineer skill helps.

 

[sabredog]

And this:

Expanded Hit Location

Starships 50+ ton Non-Starships

2 Power Plant Power Plant
3 Maneuver Maneuver
4 Jump Maneuver
5 Fuel Fuel
6 Hull Hull
7 Hull Hull
8 Hold Hold
9 Bridge Bridge
10 Turret Turret (weapon mount)
11 Turret Turret (weapon mount)
12 Critical Critical





Bridge Hit

1 Navigation Down (Ship cannot be piloted)
2 Communications Down
3 Sensors / Fire Control Down (Cannot Jump, 1G only, Weapons on manual -1)
4 Life Support Failure
5 Storage Crash (10+ on 2D6 to save software)
6 CPU Crash (10+ on 2D6 to save software)


Hull Hit

1 Vehicle
2 Cargo
3 Cargo Doors / Ramp Jammed
4 Hold Space
5 Hold Space
6 Cargo

Hull Hit

1 Stateroom
2 Stateroom
3 Low Berth
4 Gravitics
5 Life Support
6 Common Area


Critical

1 Power Plant
2 Maneuver Drive
3 Jump Drive
4 Computer
5 Fuel Tanks Shatter
6 Destroyed

 

[sabredog]

An finally, this:

Ship Integrity Damage (not used with Small Craft)

• Starships have a base Integrity Rating equal to .25x hull tonnage.
• Add 10 points for each armor point
• Total rating cannot be equal to more than 60% of the total tonnage of the ship. Military vessels can have up to 75% of the total value.
• All factors are rounded up or down to nearest 5 points. (For example…a 250 ton ship with 1 armor point would have 63 base points + 10 = Rating of 72)


Every point of damage that gets past armor is applied to the Integrity Rating of the ship. As the points draw down the following effects occur:

At 25% + (reduce agility/acceleration by .25)

At 50%+ (reduce agility/acceleration by .5, and 1 Critical Hit)

At 75%+ (reduce agility/acceleration by .75, no Jump allowed, 1 Critical Hit)

100% (Ship is effectively destroyed, 1 roll per turn on the Critical Hit Table)


Repairs to the integrity rating must be made in a shipyard with suitable repair facilities. Repairs by crew with appropriate skills (and as long as parts can be found if required) can be made, but only to 75% of the total rating unless made in a shipyard. Regardless, repairs take 1 day per 10 points of damage to fix.

 

[sabredog]

The net result of all that house-ruling is that starship combat is short, violent, and a lot more meaningful to the players since the ship can't just get pounded on forever. Particularly when they are fighting as bounty hunting privateers like they are currently. Adds some strategic variables beyond the usual systems damage. I mean, if a particle weapon barbette unloads on your 200 ton ship I want to do more than just sparkle pretty, fry some programs, and sterilize the crew.
The integrity rules are still considered "experimental", but the rest have been around long enough to have worked out.

 

[Supplement Four]

Yes, I know that there is a maximum distance for ship sensors (military vs civilian), but when the referee says something to the effect of "ship detected"....

First off, that max range you're talking about is for combat purposes. The ship's sensors can actually "detect" out to a much farther range.

With enough time, the ship's sensors can detect things in other galaxies, not unlike the real technology we have today on Earth.

The max range for ship sensors referss to targeting lasers and missiles (which is a bitch at the ranges indicated, like using a pistol to hit a single grain of sand on the beach from 50 miles away).

When a starship enters a system, just about every starship in that system should be detected automatically (given a little time) providing the ship isn't doing something (like hovering over a planetoid or hiding behind a planet) to conceal itself.

Once the ship comes into combat range (using the distances you cite), then combat can occur.

My point here is: The crew will know about the other vessel a long, long time before combat is even an option.

This is the main reason Traveller rules don't spend a lot of time on sensors. They're considered part of the bridge electronics package in the starship construction rules, and there is little reference given them there. The space combat section gives ranges for targeting, as you've already noted.

Unless a ship happens to hide itself in the magnetic sphere of a Gas Giant or behind a moon, or in an asteroid field or world's ring system, there should be very few instances during a game where a ship appears out of no where and attacks the player's ship.

Most of the time, pirates and corsairs will be disguised as some other type of vessel....maybe as a civilian skimming fuel at the local gas giant.

The only time the players should get worried over a sensor contact of another vessel (and, as I said, the player's ship should have plots for 99.99% of the vessel in the system) is when that other ship is within combat range.

Also note that, even if the players are attacked by pirates, there is little other ships in the system can do about it even though they can see on their sensors that the attack is taking place.

Think about it. It's 1 day and 8 hours at 2Gs from the Gas Giant to the system's main starport. The player's ship is skimming fuel, and another vessel approaches the GG.

Then, the new vessel shows its true colors and attacks. It's a corsair.

The starport officials, and every ship in the system, will "see" the attack on your vessel fairly quickly (time lag for signals travelling at the speed of light). It's just that the nearest ship that can help you is 1 day and 8 hours away.

They'll see the entire attack--and can't do a damn thing about it.





One more thing to consider is the velocity of a nearby ship. In Traveller, ships travel at their fastest G rating because its the most economical. A ship will accelerate at full thrust to the mid-point of its journey, and then decelerate the rest of the way.

For this reason, it's not hard to tell what leg of a journey a ship is one because the ones that are travelling "backwards", with the drives "facing" the direction of movement, are the ones slowing down on the second leg of the trip.

Let's say that your player's vessel is attacked by pirates at the GG, but another ship is coming close by--this one on a journey from the next closest planet to the starport.

This vessel will fly by the player's ship, unable to help in the attack as well.

Why?

Let's say the GG is over half way of this new ship's journey to the starport. That means that the new ship is travelling "backwards", it's drives "facing" the starport, and it is slowing down as fast as it can.

If the entire trip is 3 days, and the ship is 2 days into the trip, when it passes the player's ship, it will take the vessel another whole day to slow down. Plus, once it slows down, it will be at the starport.

By that time, the pirates will have taken what they wanted and left the player's crew for dead (or abandoned...whatever).

The point here is: even ships close by won't be able to help in an attack if their velocity is high enough.

 

[rancke]

First off, that max range you're talking about is for combat purposes. The ship's sensors can actually "detect" out to a much farther range.

[...]

When a starship enters a system, just about every starship in that system should be detected automatically (given a little time) providing the ship isn't doing something (like hovering over a planetoid or hiding behind a planet) to conceal itself.

[...]

My point here is: The crew will know about the other vessel a long, long time before combat is even an option.

[...]

Unless a ship happens to hide itself in the magnetic sphere of a Gas Giant or behind a moon, or in an asteroid field or world's ring system, there should be very few instances during a game where a ship appears out of no where and attacks the player's ship.

This is all very true.

Most of the time, pirates and corsairs will be disguised as some other type of vessel....maybe as a civilian skimming fuel at the local gas giant.

The only time the players should get worried over a sensor contact of another vessel (and, as I said, the player's ship should have plots for 99.99% of the vessel in the system) is when that other ship is within combat range.

Not true. They should get worried as soon as their sensors show them a vessel maneuvering to intercept them.

Also note that, even if the players are attacked by pirates, there is little other ships in the system can do about it even though they can see on their sensors that the attack is taking place.

True, but there's a lot system defene can do as soon as the pirate ship deviates from the course its been assigned by system control.

Think about it. It's 1 day and 8 hours at 2Gs from the Gas Giant to the system's main starport. The player's ship is skimming fuel, and another vessel approaches the GG.

Then, the new vessel shows its true colors and attacks. It's a corsair.

There are a number of assumptions here:

1) That any ship will waste the time it costs to refuel at a gas giant if there is a starport where fuel can be obtained in the system.

2) That the pirate ship was in a position to intercept the ship when it began its fuel run.

3) That the victim and system defense will not react as soon as the pirate shapes an intersect course instead of waiting until the pirate attacks.

One more thing to consider is the velocity of a nearby ship. In Traveller, ships travel at their fastest G rating because its the most economical. A ship will accelerate at full thrust to the mid-point of its journey, and then decelerate the rest of the way.

Pirates have the same problems catching prey that system defenders have catching pirates. Plus the added problem of idling in a system without arousing suspicion. Starships are expensive. Every hour a merchant ship isn't doing something towards getting a new load and moving on, it's leaking money. So any ship that doesn't have a real good reason for lurking away from the starport is going to arouse suspicion.


Hans

 

[Jeffr0]

Don your flame retardant asbestos suits, boys.

The classic traveller piracy debate has begun again!

(If this dies down, feel free to join the on-going discussion on the SJG boards about what a world's TL code means....)

 

[Supplement Four]

This is all very true.

Snip some good comments.

Hans, you focussed on the details of my post specifically while I meant them as examples. For example, you criticised the ship skimming at the GG rather than it just buying fuel at the starport.

I offered that up as just one way pirates could attack.

Yes, you're correct that players should get worried when they see a possible intercept with another ship (and that could lead to a neat game session--a race between the pirates approaching, the players fleeing, and any nearby ship coming to render aid...and it would be net if the ship coming to render aid was also a pirate accomplace, unknown to the players!)

And, yes, you are correct in saying that it is not easy to be a pirate. You've got to find the right system with the right cargoes and the right traffic and the least amount of protection. It's a dangerous line of work, no doubt.

The point of my post is that piracy can happen. The Empire is quite large, and there are places within that circumstances are "right" for piracy to occur.

 

[saundby]

It's funny--all these years I'd never noticed the missing bits of the missile rules in LBB2. I've always played it according to the torpedo rules of Triplanetary, they share the launching ship's vector, and can accelerate by 1 or 2 at launch. Of course, the scale of each game is quite different.

The torps in Triplanetary are described as homing, like the missiles, the presumption seemed to be that they homed on their target within the space of the hex where they coincide, rather than that they can continuously accelerate.

Shows how the mind can fill in details where none exist...

 

[mike wightman]

I use such a mix of rules from Mayday, Starter Traveller and the missiles SS that I can't remember which bit came from where unless I look it up.