Richard Saunders
SOC-12
Hello.
At what range do bomb pumped laser missiles fire.
The range will effect the point defence fire.
Bye.
At what range do bomb pumped laser missiles fire.
The range will effect the point defence fire.
Bye.
BPLM
- Thread starter Richard Saunders
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
In the game Power Projection-escort BPLM can be detonated outside of point defence range, at between 750,000km and 450,000km from the target, or inside 450,000km, point defence range, for a bonus.
In T20 BPLM can be detonated at any range but suffer a penalty of -2 to hit outside of 45,000km(and a cumulitive -2 penalty for each successive 45,000km). Point defences can fire at any range but also suffer from negative modifiers for long ranges. Note that if the point defence lasers are beam lasers then they are at a greater penalty because their range is only 30,000km.
Now we have a good use for missiles, shooting down the enemies BPLM before it gets to effective range.
In T20 BPLM can be detonated at any range but suffer a penalty of -2 to hit outside of 45,000km(and a cumulitive -2 penalty for each successive 45,000km). Point defences can fire at any range but also suffer from negative modifiers for long ranges. Note that if the point defence lasers are beam lasers then they are at a greater penalty because their range is only 30,000km.
Now we have a good use for missiles, shooting down the enemies BPLM before it gets to effective range.
The Oz
SOC-14 1K
I have long had a HG house rule that turret missiles (only) could be used to shoot down other missiles. The turret missiles use the "Sand or beam" missile penetration table and I give the anti-missiles a bonus DM of -4 since I want them to be more effective than sand or beams at stopping incoming missiles. So a factor-9 bay missile battery salvo would penetrate a factor-7 turret missile battery with a roll of 7+.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I've just been re-reading Mayday and I've noticed that proximity detonating missiles can be fired at as if they are ships but they can not be shot at by point defence laser fire, only contact detonation missiles in the same hex as the defending ship can be so targeted.
So in Mayday a BPLM, being a proximity detonating warhead, would not be subject to anti-missile point defence laser fire, only being fired at during the target's laser fire phase.
Oh and thanks for the house rule Oz, I'll be giving it a go
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So in Mayday a BPLM, being a proximity detonating warhead, would not be subject to anti-missile point defence laser fire, only being fired at during the target's laser fire phase.
Oh and thanks for the house rule Oz, I'll be giving it a go
.
Mayday's prox warheads are not necessarily BPLMs, but miight be KKSM "Shatterpacks". Considering the cost, I figure probably a few dozen KKSM's, with 50G0.01 ratings... literally just a sharp Spike with a hollow for some high ISP solid fuel; 21 and 37 being good numbers (27x 2.5x40cm DU 40-50 G burn...and most of the sig from behind them....Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
I've just been re-reading Mayday and I've noticed that proximity detonating missiles can be fired at as if they are ships but they can not be shot at by point defence laser fire, only contact detonation missiles in the same hex as the defending ship can be so targeted.
So in Mayday a BPLM, being a proximity detonating warhead, would not be subject to anti-missile point defence laser fire, only being fired at during the target's laser fire phase.
Oh and thanks for the house rule Oz, I'll be giving it a go
especially since the nuke warhead costs in FF&S and SS3 are considerably higher.
(KKSM: Kinetic Kill Sub-Munition)
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Since Mayday pre-dates BPLMs by several years the KKSM model is a good one for proximity detonation missiles.
So how would you put BPLMs into Mayday? I would treat them as proximity missiles that cause 3 hits on a successful strike.
In book 2 combat damage is dealt with on a different scale so I would make a BPLM in that system inflict 1d6 pulse laser hits.
Since Mayday pre-dates BPLMs by several years the KKSM model is a good one for proximity detonation missiles.
So how would you put BPLMs into Mayday? I would treat them as proximity missiles that cause 3 hits on a successful strike.
In book 2 combat damage is dealt with on a different scale so I would make a BPLM in that system inflict 1d6 pulse laser hits. </font>[/QUOTE]Look at the rules in SS3. They are an extension of the mayday rules.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Please forgive my ignorance but what's SS3? Forget that, SS3 means special supplement 3, yes?
I've posted about that recently. It doesn't mention BPLM either but its nuclear weapons are far deadlier than in High Guard.
In High Guard one factor 2 nuclear missile inflicts one hit with the possibility of internal explosions or a critical hit plus one radiation hit. In SS3 a nuclear missile can inflict between 10 and 1000 hits (double that if contact detonation) depending on yield and missile cost plus 2 to 200 radiation hits
I've posted about that recently. It doesn't mention BPLM either but its nuclear weapons are far deadlier than in High Guard.
In High Guard one factor 2 nuclear missile inflicts one hit with the possibility of internal explosions or a critical hit plus one radiation hit. In SS3 a nuclear missile can inflict between 10 and 1000 hits (double that if contact detonation) depending on yield and missile cost plus 2 to 200 radiation hits
PP:E has ranges set from MayDay (originally) with a little scaling so it fits on a decent size table. The 10MU maximum range for BPLMs is based off the short range value for lasers in PP. The point defense range is the point at which missile become vulnerable to normal point defense fire. Depending on the opposition, it's probably better detonating at somewhere between the point defense and maximum limit.
BPLMs are spot on for initial engagements (eg around the 30 MU limit). The real perks are the extra range and the fact that the enemy doesn't know if you have a BPL, Nuke or HE (which I assume is a HE warhead packed with Kinetic shrapnel eg ballbearings).
In HG, a single hit can represent anywhere from 1 ton being knocked off line to 50 000 tons destroyed. For the same system type. It is possible, assuming both the radiation and standard damage rolls generate jump drive hits, on a 1 000 000 ton starship, to be 100 000 tons of damage...
Sorry, but HG's a "Criticals Only" system; I've never approved of them; they do not model reality at extreme ends of their scales, and most PC starcraft are, in fact, elow the reliable end.
So those SS3 missiles doing 1000 hits means, at most, 20 000 tons of fuel, or 5 000 tons of jump drives, or 2 000 tons of maneuver drive. On a million tonner, a negligible ammount. On a 100 ton ship, using a house rule of 1 hull hit per ton displacement, it's vaporized! In any case, using the rule of averages, even with Z drives, and max turrets, a 1000 hit will total ANY book 2 design (ignoring, for the moment, any ideas of extensions to the book 2 tables...).
Once you drop below, say 10 KTd, HG damage becomes inaccurate in the lack of damage.
Also, it effectively ignores the cumulative effects of sniping fire from smaller targets. A thousand single missiles is not the same in HG as 33 batteries of 30. Even tho, in the long run, it should be the same net effect, assuming all are launched within the same overal time frame.
Sorry, but HG's a "Criticals Only" system; I've never approved of them; they do not model reality at extreme ends of their scales, and most PC starcraft are, in fact, elow the reliable end.
So those SS3 missiles doing 1000 hits means, at most, 20 000 tons of fuel, or 5 000 tons of jump drives, or 2 000 tons of maneuver drive. On a million tonner, a negligible ammount. On a 100 ton ship, using a house rule of 1 hull hit per ton displacement, it's vaporized! In any case, using the rule of averages, even with Z drives, and max turrets, a 1000 hit will total ANY book 2 design (ignoring, for the moment, any ideas of extensions to the book 2 tables...).
Once you drop below, say 10 KTd, HG damage becomes inaccurate in the lack of damage.
Also, it effectively ignores the cumulative effects of sniping fire from smaller targets. A thousand single missiles is not the same in HG as 33 batteries of 30. Even tho, in the long run, it should be the same net effect, assuming all are launched within the same overal time frame.
PP uses a cumulative damage model (each ship has structure boxes based on tonnage*, slightly biased to smaller ships) which has threshold check points for criticals (exactly as Full Thrust if you've seen that). Spinals bypass the check points and can force criticals instantly.
The result is that some sending hundreds of missile salvos at a Tigress from lots of smaller ships can actually harm it by overwhelming the point defense and chipping away at the damage.
*FWIW
<10,000dT 1 box per 500dT
<100,000dT 1 box per 1000dT
<1000,000 dT 1 box per 2000 dT
At those scales, no ship combat I've had need to play has been more than 20 structure boxes, assuming rounding up! Only 2 ships have had more than one structure point!
Which puts PP well outside my needs and/or useability as a GM. Just like I've never used BR, but have used BL.
Personally, I'm a small-ship-universe man myself. If it's bigger than 10KTd, it's scenery!
But it's the rihgt idea. And yes, I LOVE FT. I just think a much smaller scale is needed than what PP's aimed at.
At those scales, no ship combat I've had need to play has been more than 20 structure boxes, assuming rounding up! Only 2 ships have had more than one structure point!
Which puts PP well outside my needs and/or useability as a GM. Just like I've never used BR, but have used BL.
Personally, I'm a small-ship-universe man myself. If it's bigger than 10KTd, it's scenery!
But it's the rihgt idea. And yes, I LOVE FT. I just think a much smaller scale is needed than what PP's aimed at. </font>[/QUOTE]PP:E s probably more what you are looking at rather than PP:F as PP:E is aimed at the sub-10kdT range. However, the conversion rates are the same.
Most of the ships in Escort are (fumbles at book) somewhere between 700 and 5000 dT. This puts them in the range of 2 to 10 boxes.
When we originally discussed a 'lite' version of Power Projection, I wasn't convinced, then we played a few games at this level and it worked. And felt very different to the PP:F level games. The ships are more vulnerable, and in some ways maneouvre becomes far more important. A typical engagement with 4x 1000dT ships on the Imperial side, and 2x 1000dT + 1x 4000dT on the Zho side tends to play out in around 90 minutes (and reasonably balanced too!). In some ways I prefer Escort these days (mainly as I don't have time for a campaign etc).
The quick and dirty roleplaying solution we suggested for 'Escort' was to increase the number of structure boxes for each ship by a factor of 5 or 10, but keep the damage the same. Thats the only way the game would be survivable for PCs!
However, I did start out with the premise that PP was a way to fight out big Fleet engagements quickly, without the need for a computer. Escort working out was just a bonus...
Still, worthless to me (PPE). In fact, I was run off the discussion list for what beceme PPE for being interested in "Tiny ships" only.
A 10T-1sp or even 20T-1sp conversion would have been useful to me (In fact, I did my own). I seldom use anything over 2000Td. I'm a small ship heretic. Many times, the PC's are using 100-500 Td ships. 1 Hit PC ships are NOT suitable for my purposes, which are to use a simple system for ship combat in my roleplaying games. cross purposes.
