Breaking the Rules

[robject]

When it comes to Traveller rules, some versions "follow the rules" better than others.

Classic Traveller was the largest rule-breaker. It was special in that the rules were largely unknown, and there were no boundaries. GDW could pour its creative brain into it at all angles -- and they did. Frank went gear-headed with AHL and Striker. Marc made stuff up as he went. Loren crafted the sweep of Imperial history.

Of all systems, fans fight the most over CT, because it has all sorts of undefined and incompatible things in there, willy-nilly.

Except for classic Traveller, each ruleset is self-consistent, or at least tries to minimize inconsistencies. This is why you have people who play TNE, and others who play MT, and others who play MgT... and they don't tend to fight over the meaning of the rules.

***

Of all the systems, GURPS seems like the one system that never broke rules. It had a self-consistent game mechanic; it had the OTU history; it bought in a consistent sampling of Traveller-specific rules and stuck with it. As far as I can tell.

***

Mongoose gets flak. First, it bends Traveller rules -- and though I don't have specifics, I'm sure there's something in there to offend everyone. Second, it bends the OTU, in effect creating an ATU that currently greatly resembles the OTU.

But neither of those is a problem. They're not doing anything that classic Traveller hasn't already done. It's for each of us Traveller players to play along with it as best we can, rebel where we want to, change what we want to the degree that we can.

But at the end of the day, all Traveller is good for Traveller.

 

[Dragoner]

If one goes to fb, reddit, or discord; there are discussions about rules beyond CT. However, (imo) if it does not directly negatively impact play, which a lot of the rule breaking rules don't; it is all good, you're right. Sometimes its just parsing internet discussion, from playing.

 

[infojunky]

Rules, CT is made up of a bunch of mini-games that slot in and out with ease. Not to mention using parts to fix your game. It’s hard to break anything if you can pull out the offending chunk and replace it. But what do I know I have a heretic for years.

 

[Spinward Flow]

But what do I know I have a heretic for years.

Paganism ... it's not just for heretics anymore ...

 

[mike wightman]

I like the rules being a little loose so I can bend then to what I want.

These days I run 77 but with bits stolen from here there and everywhere - T4 combat and damage, MgT boon/bane mechanic (still use the CT saving throw system), 81 edition drive table, I dip into T5 a lot for tech details and the like.

But at the table it is
"So what does your character do" and the occasional roll of 2d (sometimes 3d thanks to the boon/bane mechanic) to resolve stuff and damage dice when and where necessary.

I play with all versions of Traveller (and quite a few other sci fi games) away from the table, but come game night it is all for the players.

 

[Fovean]

Mongoose gets flak. First, it bends Traveller rules -- and though I don't have specifics, I'm sure there's something in there to offend everyone. Second, it bends the OTU, in effect creating an ATU that currently greatly resembles the OTU.

Ummm… you’re a published Mongoose Traveller author. Cheers and thank you for your work but honestly this sounds a little disingenuous.

I really don’t understand why this forum looks down on the Mongoose efforts so much. They are arguably keeping Traveller alive with a slow but steady growth in interest in this legendary game. Yet nothing but pissing and moaning over here.

Sure, Mongoose has its editorial errors, Traveller seems doomed for eternity in that sense. But if you take a spin through the thread about changing - ie, fixing - Classic, most people‘s concerns there have been addressed by Mongoose rules and the rules give good game. And they published a how-to for Travllermap.com, which gives several eras’ canonical UWPs and borders and whatever else. And they offer simplified versions of a lot of T5 paradigms and ideas to grow the toolkit they offer referees. Their 1e High Guard offered a simplified vector movement system, 2e High Guard a fleet combat system, 1e Scouts a simplified version of expanded system generation. They’ve instituted a big push for new, full color evocative art. And right up front, Traveller Rule 0 - it’s up to the Ref and their game, these rules are guidelines.

Oh, wait. I guess they wrote some words and destroyed the One True Setting. Which has never happened, ever, not once.

I hope some day the One True Setting will be published. Hopefully without errata because, you know, reasons.

 

[robject]

Ummm… you’re a published Mongoose Traveller author. Cheers and thank you for your work but honestly this sounds a little disingenuous.

I really don’t understand why this forum looks down on the Mongoose efforts so much. They are arguably keeping Traveller alive with a slow but steady growth in interest in this legendary game. Yet nothing but pissing and moaning over here.

1. There's no argument about it, Fovean. Their work is keeping Traveller alive.

2. "Mongoose writes things the way GDW did with Classic Traveller" is not pissing, and it's not moaning. It's a statement about how they write for Traveller. It could be wrong. Do you think it's wrong?

 

[aramis]

2. "Mongoose writes things the way GDW did with Classic Traveller" is not pissing, and it's not moaning. It's a statement about how they write for Traveller. It could be wrong. Do you think it's wrong?

I think they are not doing it the way GDW did. They can't. CT didn't have 30 years of accumulated canon to be compared to, both rules canons, and the setting canon. Nor 30-40 years of arguments over what best practices are as a GM. Nor 35+sectors prerolled to the mainworld level.

Nor an owner making provocative anti-OTU statements.

 

[Grav_Moped]

It's just another ruleset and setting materials to pick useful ideas from.

 

[Spinward Flow]

"Look at the bones mahn! Do yeh not see the bones!"

 

[robject]

I think they are not doing it the way GDW did. They can't. CT didn't have 30 years of accumulated canon to be compared to, both rules canons, and the setting canon. Nor 30-40 years of arguments over what best practices are as a GM. Nor 35+sectors prerolled to the mainworld level.

Nor an owner making provocative anti-OTU statements.

Granted, they have what CT didn't have -- prior art.

I feel that, often, those 30+ years of arguments are over the same things. I think that sounds like a good new topic!

I think your point is something resembling "with great power comes great responsibility", and that perhaps due diligence is difficult. I think things are always complex, and MgT at best is a smaller version of this COTI forum, except it's also a business.

Supposing your team is made up of:

15% CT fans
15% MT fans
15% TNE fans
15% GURPS: Traveller fans
15% Other Traveller fans
25% Warhammer: 40K fans

And Matt falls into at least two of the above categories. And he has to bring order and run a business according to his vision.

 

[Dragoner]

The tables of WH40K minis should be a clue.

 

[aramis]

Granted, they have what CT didn't have -- prior art.

But no apparent respect for it.

And Matt falls into at least two of the above categories. And he has to bring order and run a business according to his vision.

Does he? He didn't go for a tweak and update... which is what so many fans were clamoring for. He also openly made multiple negative statements about the OTU, antagonizing the existing fanbase before he even put out a product.

He's turned to a toxic fan exploitation business model, too... the new "JTAS" ...
... Sure, just following WotC... but he was an early adopter.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I prefer using the Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition core rules because they're not too detailed. The skills are unified. It really helps a lot for my game sessions where players are in character and not asking the Referee questions during the game.

 

[robject]

Before diving deeper with Wil, I have to state that Mongoose Traveller is not my preference.

But, I also have to say that Mongoose Traveller brings people into Traveller, who haven't played it before -- or who haven't played it in 30+ years (same difference).

But no apparent respect for it.

Does he? He didn't go for a tweak and update... which is what so many fans were clamoring for. He also openly made multiple negative statements about the OTU, antagonizing the existing fanbase before he even put out a product.

He's turned to a toxic fan exploitation business model, too... the new "JTAS" ...

And here I was, not wanting to sound negative about Mongoose Traveller.

Re the OTU, I agree there's a difference between fans dissing the OTU and a publisher dissing the OTU. I am ignorant of his statements, though. I did hear that they call their thing the "Original Traveller Universe" by way (potentially?) of distinction.

To clarify, he did go for a tweak and update... recently... but of his rules.

I'm ignorant of his business model, but I have heard negative things. I hear it is one reason Cepheus Engine sprung into being.

I prefer using the Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition core rules because they're not too detailed. The skills are unified. It really helps a lot for my game sessions where players are in character and not asking the Referee questions during the game.

This is why people like MgT. But also because the production quality is up there with modern RPGs.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Before diving deeper with Wil, I have to state that Mongoose Traveller is not my preference.

But, I also have to say that Mongoose Traveller brings people into Traveller, who haven't played it before -- or who haven't played it in 30+ years (same difference).

For my players, Mongoose Traveller (1st and 2nd) is the only RPG they've played.