Called shots in starship combat
- Thread starter jayouzts
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snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Hello Jay Ouzts,
I would like to say for the record that I have not as yet tried to decipher the combat rules for T20. Further, my comments are my own and YMMV. Yes, a gunner, computer or sophont, can target a specific portion of a ship, building, or other structure. However, especially when both vessels are maneuvering, the chances of making the shot is fairly low.
I would think that unless the two ships are extremely close (in stellar distances, that is), it will difficult to target a specific area. The distances used in normal ship to ship combat limits the ability to target a specific site, even with enhanced sensors. Throw in ship evasion routines, extreme speeds, and individual ship idiosynchronicities, and unless the two ships are at close range or less our group doesn't allow for called shots. This rule goes out if one ship is stationary (shut down or crippled)or the GM decides a called shot is being used only for story developement (you know, not trying to use this tactic every time there is combat). I would be extreemly careful on any called shot ship combat rule, since the risk to maintaining a good game balance may go out the airlock. That being said, it would be fun to see the players' reactions if they decided to target a specific area, missed due to negatives, and then have their own ship hulled.Hmmmm, I think a few ship to ship encounters are called for......
I think a called shot rule for ships would add to the game. There may be times when it is advantageous to capture a ship. Perhaps a hostage is on board and the party does not want to risk killing the passenger. Perhaps there is a planet that still practices slavery, and the tactics on that planet call for capturing ships and their crew.
Sure, it could be fun and it has its uses, but I would think it could easily be abused by the characters. Remember the Klingons in StarTrek 3 when they tried to hit the engines on the research ship?! KABLOOOOOEY!! Unless a ship is close and the relative speeds and headings are close to a match, one should find any called shot comes with some major minuses to their roll. Careful planning and manuevering is the key for getting the ship to ship result you want. Besides, forcing the characters to sweat a little everytime they fire at or near an asset they would like to salvage makes for a better game. If you do allow for called shots, perhaps a stiffer penalty for any misses could be accessed?
Better make sure your captain isn't a Klingon!
Better make sure your captain isn't a Klingon!
But don't forget about Star Trek II when Khan targeted the Engine Room of the Enterprise. I really like the idea of a called shot. And computer enhanced, shouldn't give you too much of a minus (probably -2 at the most), any more than you would get a minus just for shooting at someone in the vastness of space. Laser Lock, would be a good addition. And some larger starship captains might require it, safety reasons and all.
Scout
Scout
Sure Khan "targeted" the engineering section, but the Reliant was real close to the ol' Big E. I mean that Khan was within a kilometer or so, the equal to being a pointblank shot. Add that the Enterprise had slowed to "docking speed" or manuevering thrusters only and Khan could have rolled down the window and made a called shot just as well. Normal starship to starship battle at high speeds,different vectors, and huge distances should prevent called shots at any minuses no matter what your targeting system. Perhaps a heat seeker missle could be directed at a thruster, but would be easily misdirected by a decoy et. al. As my previous post suggested, the rules could be different for docked, matched vector, or pointblank combat between two ships, but not for the vast majority of intersteller warfare.....and I hope no one tries to start a backstab plus and multiplier for starship combat!!
All the way back to LBB Book/2 there was this nifty little computer program called "selective". If running, it allowed the gunner to target one of two options: 1. main compartment, or 2. engine compartment.
I would guess that T20 probably works the same way. The net effect would be where your internal hits end up if you penetrate the defenses. I don't have the book with me at the moment, so I have no way to check.
I would guess that T20 probably works the same way. The net effect would be where your internal hits end up if you penetrate the defenses. I don't have the book with me at the moment, so I have no way to check.
Actually, there is a computer program that one can run in T20 that allows the use of the Called Shot in starship combat. (Can't remember the name of it off-hand. Might be 'select'.)
However, there's no description of what effect this has for starship/small vehicle combat; there's just a description of what happens in personal combat.
I've ruled that it allows the player making the called shot to strike a particular location on the internal damage table, should internal damage occurs. This is restricted by what would reasonably be targetable from the exterior of the ship.
So, targeting Engineering or Fire Control would be possible, but targetting Crew would not, generally.
Since it seems for anything except military ships EVERY hit is going to cause internal damage, this works out nicely.
Comments?
However, there's no description of what effect this has for starship/small vehicle combat; there's just a description of what happens in personal combat.
I've ruled that it allows the player making the called shot to strike a particular location on the internal damage table, should internal damage occurs. This is restricted by what would reasonably be targetable from the exterior of the ship.
So, targeting Engineering or Fire Control would be possible, but targetting Crew would not, generally.
Since it seems for anything except military ships EVERY hit is going to cause internal damage, this works out nicely.
Comments?
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Evening Fax,
There are two programs that are required to be running before a "Called shot" can be attempted with any chance of success. They are Gunner Interact and Select, both located on p. 230 of the THB.
There are two programs that are required to be running before a "Called shot" can be attempted with any chance of success. They are Gunner Interact and Select, both located on p. 230 of the THB.
It really is up to the GM to decide where the shot hits. The tables are an aid, not the final law.
Make your players sweat. The pirate merchant they were chasing just took a single shot, it hit and penetrated between decks taking out the controls for the air scrubber plant and venting the air to space. The automatic vents, all going through the air scrubbers, closed, after the ship loses 90% of it's air.
Let the players use called shots, but then use them against the players to. Make their lives interesting.
The idea is not to use the tables in place of imagination, but as an aid to your imagination. If you didn't want to use that imagination, then why are you playing the game?
Make your players sweat. The pirate merchant they were chasing just took a single shot, it hit and penetrated between decks taking out the controls for the air scrubber plant and venting the air to space. The automatic vents, all going through the air scrubbers, closed, after the ship loses 90% of it's air.
Let the players use called shots, but then use them against the players to. Make their lives interesting.
The idea is not to use the tables in place of imagination, but as an aid to your imagination. If you didn't want to use that imagination, then why are you playing the game?
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Lo vegascat,
To a certain extent you are correct that the GM has the final say if the shot struck the intended spot or not and that the tables are an aid in determining that success.
However, based on the targeting abilities of modern military vehicles the chances are very good that the round, or beam in the case of Traveller, will hit within inches/millimeters of the spot picked out by the gunner,when using all the augmentation available to perform such a feat.
The affects of the resulting damage will certainly cause headaches for both the defender and attacker. The defenders headaches begin with the damage where and severity of the energy or explosive power of the weapon is placed.
The attackers headaches begin when attempting to board or enter the vessel or installation after disabling the defender.
To a certain extent you are correct that the GM has the final say if the shot struck the intended spot or not and that the tables are an aid in determining that success.
However, based on the targeting abilities of modern military vehicles the chances are very good that the round, or beam in the case of Traveller, will hit within inches/millimeters of the spot picked out by the gunner,when using all the augmentation available to perform such a feat.
The affects of the resulting damage will certainly cause headaches for both the defender and attacker. The defenders headaches begin with the damage where and severity of the energy or explosive power of the weapon is placed.
The attackers headaches begin when attempting to board or enter the vessel or installation after disabling the defender.
My concern is that the PCs will abuse any chance for called shots unless there is a stiff negative modifier to the results or chance to hit. There appears to be many a mini/maxer on this board (..not that there is anything wrong with that
)and I hate to see any "official" ruling that drifts too far into their camp. By that, I mean that I hate to see all starship to starship combat result into called shots that allow for the PCs to work less and earn alot more. That being said, I agree on two of the previous statements: your campaign;your rules..and what the PCs are allowed to do, the opposition will,too! I would love to see the PCs faces when that called shot into their bridge does it's effects!!
I would love to see the PCs faces when that called shot into their bridge does it's effects!!
hunter
Ancient - Absent Friend
The Select program (pg 230 of the THB) allows the gunner to use the called shot option (pg. 151). There should be additional text here in the called shot option explaining that it can be used in ship or vehicle combat and provide some size examples. I'll get this errata'd
Moving this to the errata forum
Hunter
Moving this to the errata forum
Hunter
Please add the effects of vectors and speed differential to the example. I would immagine it would be pretty hard to hit a normal ship's engineering section from a bow to bow encounter. Different vectors would also reduce the target area's apparent surface area making for a tougher chance to hit. On the other hand, depending what Hunter posts, I may be able to get a few ships in the bag before the ol' GM realizes it's now official for called shots in ship to ship combat. Now if only Hunter would allow us to D-door and backstab in interstellar warfare!
Well, perhaps something where you spend a (-2 to hit) for a (+5%) movement on the hit chart.
Example: I want to target the fire control of the enemy craft (51-72 on the chart). I declare "attempting to target fire control at a +20%" this means I take a -8 to hit on the attack, but if I do strike I roll my hit location normally. I get a 35 on the chart and bump it up 20% so it falls in the "fire control range" and now I have hit that location. If the distance from what I rolled and what I declared as my target is greater than the % I picked, I stick with what I rolled.
You would then roll on the fire control subtable at the same bonus.
To be sure you hit the fire control you would need a +50% chance or a -20 to hit (boosting a 01 to 51 and a 00 down to 72). So there is still a randomness in there.
Something like that?
Example: I want to target the fire control of the enemy craft (51-72 on the chart). I declare "attempting to target fire control at a +20%" this means I take a -8 to hit on the attack, but if I do strike I roll my hit location normally. I get a 35 on the chart and bump it up 20% so it falls in the "fire control range" and now I have hit that location. If the distance from what I rolled and what I declared as my target is greater than the % I picked, I stick with what I rolled.
You would then roll on the fire control subtable at the same bonus.
To be sure you hit the fire control you would need a +50% chance or a -20 to hit (boosting a 01 to 51 and a 00 down to 72). So there is still a randomness in there.
Something like that?
That works, I haven't played much ship to ship combat in T20 but I still like the basic idea of being able to increase your chances of hitting what you want to hit while taking a penalty of missing entirely.
Perhaps before taking the shot have another check for a called shot against a base DC+ modifiers for size, speed and the like and have the number you exceed the target number by modify your damage location roll assuming you hit, failure meaning you've lost the target or can't take the shot.
Perhaps before taking the shot have another check for a called shot against a base DC+ modifiers for size, speed and the like and have the number you exceed the target number by modify your damage location roll assuming you hit, failure meaning you've lost the target or can't take the shot.
Another complication to consider -- called shots may be difficult to target unless the gunner is familiar with the vessel's design. Locations of turrets, for example, are generally pretty easy to figure out (especially when they're firing at you); sensors and comm gear may have external antennae that can be targeted; maneuver drives are usually pretty obvious, etc. But the bridge doesn't have to be in the nose of a ship, and a number of other critical systems (computers, for example) could be located almost anywhere.
The best way to allow for this might be to just add an additional to-hit penalty (-2 or more, depending) for targeting interior systems if the gunner isn't familiar with the layout of the vessel (good place for a K/Starships skill roll, perhaps?).
And yes, definitely restrict this to close range only for most weapons. Some weapons (BPL missiles) probably shouldn't be allowed to be used for called shots at all.
The best way to allow for this might be to just add an additional to-hit penalty (-2 or more, depending) for targeting interior systems if the gunner isn't familiar with the layout of the vessel (good place for a K/Starships skill roll, perhaps?).
And yes, definitely restrict this to close range only for most weapons. Some weapons (BPL missiles) probably shouldn't be allowed to be used for called shots at all.
