Minor disagreement/nitpick.
The AK47 is also a Bk4 Assault Rifle - its 7.65mm round is shorter (less powder/power) than the 7.62mm round used in the M1/M14/FN-FAL. The M1 Garand is the Bk1 Rifle, while the M14, FN-FAL, etc. are the Bk1 Autorifle.
CT Only: Carbine and AUTO fire
- Thread starter jaz0nj4ckal
- Start date
Minor disagreement/nitpick.
The AK47 is also a Bk4 Assault Rifle - its 7.65mm round is shorter (less powder/power) than the 7.62mm round used in the M1/M14/FN-FAL. The M1 Garand is the Bk1 Rifle, while the M14, FN-FAL, etc. are the Bk1 Autorifle.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
The problem with the M14 when used as an auto rifle was that it was uncontrollable beyond the first shot. About the lightest full-power auto rifle used was the Browning Automatic Rifle as roughly 19 pounds. Any lighter and you cannot control the recoil. If handled correctly, the M60 Machine Gun can be fired from the hip, but it is a bit heavy, at least for me, to fire from the shoulder while standing. I have problems with the ballistics of some of the standard weapons in Traveller.
The M16 wasn't (isn't) an effective autofire weapon, either. That's why the M16A1 was changed from autofire to 3-round burst. Even with that, during my service in the U.S. Army (early-mid '90s) we were never trained to use anything but single-shot.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
That was done more to reduce ammunition use. A lot of people when firing auto simply burned through the magazine before letting go of the trigger. Even firing from the shoulder, the average shooter could not hit the man-sized figure target at 50 yards, but the territory downrange was thoroughly blanketed. I would have hated to be somewhere downrange at a distance of a mile or so. That area would make a good copper and lead mine.
Not that I noticed, but a lot of the smaller guys had problems with it. Also to be honest my unit only had 4 or 5 fully Auto M14s.
If you look in Book 4: Mercenary, it has stats for assault rifles, which are just carbines with an autofire capability. You could use those.
Major B
SOC-14 1K
RandyB, I think that the M16A1 had single, burst, and auto settings. The M16A2 did away with auto.
I think timerover has the reason right but it also had something to do with the introduction of the M249 Squad Automatic Weapon for the fire team's auto rifleman.
In my first unit we had M16A1s and the auto rifleman (1 per team in an infantry squad) was issued a clip-on bipod for his M16. Fired from the prone with the bipod, automatic fire from the M16 was effective enough but keep in mind that it was intended to provide suppressive fire rather than aimed fire at a single target. We received the M249 and M16A2s at about the same time and the SAW was far better though changing barrels wasn't easy.
My other related memories regarding auto fire from the M16. The barrel heated very fast and cleaning the weapon after going to the range was a real pain in the (4th point of contact).
My memory may have failed me re: the M16A1.
And I remember the SAW. Without the ROF governor, you couldn't get a controllable burst out of it. One twitch of the trigger finger and you've got 10 rounds downrange out of a jumping barrel. With the governor, the doctrinal 3-5 round controllable burst was doable.
Then again, this was the U.S. Army in the 1990's; we never had enough ammo to really get proficient with them.
M16 and M16A1 had semi or full-auto only for selections.
M16A2 had semi or 3-round burst.
M4 has had both semi/3 round burst, and semi/full depending on block and mod...
The general reasoning was that for most troops full auto ended up with a lot of wasted ammo, and burst would "solve" this - though, it is more a training issue than an availability issue.
M4 started the switch back to semi/full when it was primarily a Special Operations issue weapon; when working in small units it's nice to have full auto for breaking contact.
Also, across the services especially with real downrange time (which wasn't common in the 80's/90's) most people realized that the vast majority of work was best done in semi-auto anyways... but that's a separate topic.
And, yes, the M16/M4 platform tend to heat up very rapidly when fired full auto - especially fun to learn if you accidentally grip the barrel instead of the handguard!
M16A2 had semi or 3-round burst.
M4 has had both semi/3 round burst, and semi/full depending on block and mod...
The general reasoning was that for most troops full auto ended up with a lot of wasted ammo, and burst would "solve" this - though, it is more a training issue than an availability issue.
M4 started the switch back to semi/full when it was primarily a Special Operations issue weapon; when working in small units it's nice to have full auto for breaking contact.
Also, across the services especially with real downrange time (which wasn't common in the 80's/90's) most people realized that the vast majority of work was best done in semi-auto anyways... but that's a separate topic.
And, yes, the M16/M4 platform tend to heat up very rapidly when fired full auto - especially fun to learn if you accidentally grip the barrel instead of the handguard!
The carbine fires a 6mm, 5 gram bullet at 900 meters per second.
The assault rifle fires a 6mm, 5 gram bullet at 900 meters per second.
Sounds like they both use the same round, which makes the assault rifle the autofire version of the carbine. Interestingly, though, under the panic fire rules carbines are treated as submachine guns, although panic fire isn't auto fire.
A bit of a digression here. Historically, a carbine was simply a shorter and lighter version of the current infantry rifle. This was not a problem for flintlocks, caplocks or mechanical (lever or bolt-action) cartridge rifles. For gas or recoil operated rifles, you really couldn't make normal carbine changes (shortening the barrel, removing part of the forestock*) without significantly reengineering the gun. So, by late TL5, carbine changed to mean a light rifle.
* the carbine was intended for soldiers whose job required a less bulky weapon, such as cavalry and artillery, and later truck drivers, combat engineers and paratroops. The shorter barrel slightly decreased power, range and accuracy.
The assault rifle fires a 6mm, 5 gram bullet at 900 meters per second.
Sounds like they both use the same round, which makes the assault rifle the autofire version of the carbine. Interestingly, though, under the panic fire rules carbines are treated as submachine guns, although panic fire isn't auto fire.
A bit of a digression here. Historically, a carbine was simply a shorter and lighter version of the current infantry rifle. This was not a problem for flintlocks, caplocks or mechanical (lever or bolt-action) cartridge rifles. For gas or recoil operated rifles, you really couldn't make normal carbine changes (shortening the barrel, removing part of the forestock*) without significantly reengineering the gun. So, by late TL5, carbine changed to mean a light rifle.
* the carbine was intended for soldiers whose job required a less bulky weapon, such as cavalry and artillery, and later truck drivers, combat engineers and paratroops. The shorter barrel slightly decreased power, range and accuracy.
By 1987, at least some of the CAR-15/M-16 rifles had been refitted with safe, single, burst, full sears, and many had the full blocked by a weld. My issue weapon in BT was a CAR-15 lower with an M-16 upper... and four position sear.
