General Characters with a Second Career

[Brandon C]

The sabbatical is a one off once per lifetime thing, you don't make the dedication roll for it you just elect to pay the money.

Yes, you do make a roll.

"After the general field has been chosen, the character must make a dedication die roll. Throw 8+, no DMs apply except when throwing to enter a physical fitness program ... "

This comes in the paragraph before the descriptions of the fields: education, weapon expertise, skill improvement, and physical fitness.

I don't see how it could be clearer that the 8+ roll applies to all of them.

If you don't get enough mustering out money, pension, tickets to sell to pay for it, or TAS membership (this is worth Cr60000 per year selling the tickets) then you can either do a few patron missions to get the cash or take out a loan.

And a 4 year sabbatical means the character is removed from play for 4 years. So the player has to either (1) sit out of the campaign for 4 game years or (2) generate another character to run while the first character is on sabbatical -- which rather completely defeats the purpose of sending a character on sabbatical.

This is an ideal way to separate characters from their money or to use as rewards from adventures, and it is guaranteed to succeed if you as the ref want it to.

It also guarantees players will quit the campaign or just abandon the first character and run another one.

 

[Brandon C]

I don't think that you are reading the Experience System correctly.

Would you say a 42% chance of immediately raising two skills by +1 is "doomed to failure"?

I'm saying using the experience system itself is domed to failure, at a near 60% rate. The only positive modifiers to the 8+ dedication rolls are for undertaking physical fitness and being an idiot.

 

[Leitz]

It also guarantees players will quit the campaign or just abandon the first character and run another one.

I'd have to agree that the RAW makes progress difficult. Well, I think it's pretty nonsensical given how people really learn things, but I'll go with "difficult". That's why I prefer a story based game and one that let's the players and DM alter rules to meet the best game. As a player sometimes I have to slow down, as a DM sometimes I have to step up my game to provide challenges.

 

[mike wightman]

No, you do not make a roll:

In addition, any character may, once during his or her life, take a sabbatical (for
4 years) for the purpose of specifically gaining a skill through education. Such activity
is the equivalent of a technical school or college education, and allows the
acquisition of one specific non-weapon skill with a level of 2. Cost of this education
is CR 70,000.

It is a one off special case if you have the money to pay for it.

 

[Brandon C]

No, you do not make a roll:
It is a one off special case if you have the money to pay for it.

What you quoted does not say the 8+ roll is ignored. Therefore, the earlier reference to all training programs requiring a 8+ dedication roll remains in effect.

 

[mike wightman]

It states any character may do it once in a lifetime, it does not say you can only do it once in a lifetime if you make the roll. The word may rather than can is important in this, since may denotes permission to do something.

 

[Brandon C]

It states any character may do it once in a lifetime, it does not say you can only do it once in a lifetime if you make the roll.

That still doesn't imply that the 8+ roll is ignored.

What we appear to have is a very poorly written rule that can interpreted two very different ways.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm saying using the experience system itself is domed to failure, at a near 60% rate. The only positive modifiers to the 8+ dedication rolls are for undertaking physical fitness and being an idiot.

You're not taking into account that you get to attempt a new training program every year.

So...

1. You can attempt straight out of chargen.

2. If you fail, you can try again in one game year.

3. Chances are, you will win one of those two rolls, but if you don't, you can still try again after another year.



The Experience system simulates gaining skills and attributes at the same rate as CharGen. Or, there abouts....



And, there's a HUGE WELCOME MAT in the Experience Rules for the Ref to bring in whatever type of training that he thinks his game needs.

One of those Alternatives is shown in Book 4 (applied to Mercenaries, but can be adapted for other uses).

 

[Supplement Four]

It states any character may do it once in a lifetime, it does not say you can only do it once in a lifetime if you make the roll. The word may rather than can is important in this, since may denotes permission to do something.

I see where Brandon is coming from.

At the top of the Experience Chapter, it says that you have to first pick an area of focus, which is listed on the lower part of the page: Education, Weapon Expertise, Skill Improvement, or Physical Fitness.

After picking one of those, you roll 8+ for dedication and follow the rules in those sections for improvement.



But...

We also have the Alternatives section which is obviously something different than the standard Experience Rules.

So, the question becomes, does the Sabbatical, listed under the Education Choice, require the 8+ Dedication roll?

One argument is that it does, because it is an option of the Education focus.

The other argument is that it is an option of the Education focus that doesn't include the Dedication roll.

Another question: Under the Education focus, do each of the 50 Week Sessions require a Dedication roll? If so, and you fail, do you have to wait a year?

And Another Question: Under the Education focus, how in the world do you increase your EDU by +6 in a four year period if a +1 EDU requires a 50 week session?



EDIT:

And Another, Another Question: Under the Education focus, why would anyone take the Sabbatical for 70,000CR when gaining a +2 skill only costs 5,000CR by doing two 50 week courses?

Is that an argument for no 8+ Dedication throw required for the Sabbatical?

Or, is it, with the courses, the 50 weeks can be stretched out (and the player takes part in the game on non-study weeks) over a period of time?

 

[mike wightman]

The sabbatical is a once in a life additional option that any character may partake of. It's a special case.

It says in the EDU section:

Generally one session per week is taken, though 2 per
week are possible. After 50 sessions are completed the character's education level is
increased by one.

So the question should be, since 50 sessions can be achieved in 25 weeks, why is there a limit of +6 when technically you could achieve +8?