Classic Traveller combat

[Olschoolgamer]

Hey all,
I have a group that is "refined" enough to handle the hard sci fi system of Traveller. But before I undertake this grand adventure, I was wondering if anyone can assist me on one or two points that I am having some reservations on.

1: Combat is very lethal in CT. The average person being UPP 777777 will probably go down in the first round of combat if hit by anything bigger than a Foil, hand or claw. While this is realistic, it can cause some disappointment in players to survive char acter generation only to be gunned to in the back alleys of some back world slum. I do not wish to recreate Heinlens Starship Troopers and have all the characters run around in Battle dress. Of course civilian cloth armor will be available. What I was thinking about was a few mechanics like adding ST AG EN together to arrive at hit points. Right now we are playing WFRP and I thnik the combat in that world of perilous adventure is not as deadly as Traveller.

2: Combat to hit roles are modified by the weapon range and weapon versus armor tables. Does anyone have a system that is more compact? I have looked at the Azhanti rules and think that would be a good alternitive but how do you handle the wepon penetration versus armor when rolling dice for damage and not using the wound chart?

3: Where is a really good MS Word based character shee that can be modified for my campain.

As time goes on I will continue to ask for your advice. I have 3 sets of core rules, CT, MT, and TNE. You are the experts so beseech your wisdom.

 

[Olschoolgamer]

Hey all,
I have a group that is "refined" enough to handle the hard sci fi system of Traveller. But before I undertake this grand adventure, I was wondering if anyone can assist me on one or two points that I am having some reservations on.

1: Combat is very lethal in CT. The average person being UPP 777777 will probably go down in the first round of combat if hit by anything bigger than a Foil, hand or claw. While this is realistic, it can cause some disappointment in players to survive char acter generation only to be gunned to in the back alleys of some back world slum. I do not wish to recreate Heinlens Starship Troopers and have all the characters run around in Battle dress. Of course civilian cloth armor will be available. What I was thinking about was a few mechanics like adding ST AG EN together to arrive at hit points. Right now we are playing WFRP and I thnik the combat in that world of perilous adventure is not as deadly as Traveller.

2: Combat to hit roles are modified by the weapon range and weapon versus armor tables. Does anyone have a system that is more compact? I have looked at the Azhanti rules and think that would be a good alternitive but how do you handle the wepon penetration versus armor when rolling dice for damage and not using the wound chart?

3: Where is a really good MS Word based character shee that can be modified for my campain.

As time goes on I will continue to ask for your advice. I have 3 sets of core rules, CT, MT, and TNE. You are the experts so beseech your wisdom.

 

[Takei]

This is a good thread for basic CT combat.

 

[Takei]

This is a good thread for basic CT combat.

 

[Olschoolgamer]

Originally posted by Takei:
This is a good thread for basic CT combat.

I like the way Sigg handles combat in this rules lite version, I will probably use this as the basis for my combat system. I prefer the older method for melee tho, 8+ with modifiers. Still does this make combat more survivable?

 

[Olschoolgamer]

Originally posted by Takei:
This is a good thread for basic CT combat.

I like the way Sigg handles combat in this rules lite version, I will probably use this as the basis for my combat system. I prefer the older method for melee tho, 8+ with modifiers. Still does this make combat more survivable?

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Olschoolgamer:

1: Combat is very lethal in CT. The average person being UPP 777777 will probably go down in the first round of combat if hit by anything bigger than a Foil, hand or claw. While this is realistic, it can cause some disappointment in players to survive char acter generation only to be gunned to in the back alleys of some back world slum. I do not wish to recreate Heinlens Starship Troopers and have all the characters run around in Battle dress. Of course civilian cloth armor will be available. What I was thinking about was a few mechanics like adding ST AG EN together to arrive at hit points. Right now we are playing WFRP and I thnik the combat in that world of perilous adventure is not as deadly as Traveller.

A few tips about making combat less lethal:
1) Get rid of the "first blood" rule, that is the rule that the first shot to hit someone applies all of its damage to one attribute. This will mean that the first 3D attack (and most CT attacks are 3D) actually applies one 1D6 damage to each attribute, so that a UPP 777777 character will, at worst, get reduced to UPP 111777 at the first attack.
2) Change the way armor works; instead of it having DMs to hit, have armor absorb damage (or better yet, damage dice). That would men that an armored character will recieve less damage. If you want greater realism, supplement this with a critical-hit rule (such as on a natural roll of 12 in the attack roll) which bypasses armor.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by Olschoolgamer:

1: Combat is very lethal in CT. The average person being UPP 777777 will probably go down in the first round of combat if hit by anything bigger than a Foil, hand or claw. While this is realistic, it can cause some disappointment in players to survive char acter generation only to be gunned to in the back alleys of some back world slum. I do not wish to recreate Heinlens Starship Troopers and have all the characters run around in Battle dress. Of course civilian cloth armor will be available. What I was thinking about was a few mechanics like adding ST AG EN together to arrive at hit points. Right now we are playing WFRP and I thnik the combat in that world of perilous adventure is not as deadly as Traveller.

A few tips about making combat less lethal:
1) Get rid of the "first blood" rule, that is the rule that the first shot to hit someone applies all of its damage to one attribute. This will mean that the first 3D attack (and most CT attacks are 3D) actually applies one 1D6 damage to each attribute, so that a UPP 777777 character will, at worst, get reduced to UPP 111777 at the first attack.
2) Change the way armor works; instead of it having DMs to hit, have armor absorb damage (or better yet, damage dice). That would men that an armored character will recieve less damage. If you want greater realism, supplement this with a critical-hit rule (such as on a natural roll of 12 in the attack roll) which bypasses armor.

 

[Olschoolgamer]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Olschoolgamer:

1: Combat is very lethal in CT. The average person being UPP 777777 will probably go down in the first round of combat if hit by anything bigger than a Foil, hand or claw. While this is realistic, it can cause some disappointment in players to survive character generation only to be gunned to in the back alleys of some back world slum. I do not wish to recreate Heinlens Starship Troopers and have all the characters run around in Battle dress. Of course civilian cloth armor will be available. What I was thinking about was a few mechanics like adding ST AG EN together to arrive at hit points. Right now we are playing WFRP and I thnik the combat in that world of perilous adventure is not as deadly as Traveller.

A few tips about making combat less lethal:
1) Get rid of the "first blood" rule....
2) Change the way armor works; instead of it having DMs to hit, have armor absorb damage (or better yet, damage dice)....
</font>[/QUOTE]This makes sense. The first blood rule is the most lethal part of combat. I can modify the to hit like Sigg suggested and use the Pentration armor rules from Azhanti. So that diced are dropped for armor factors. I am a firm believer that a body pistol should not be able to pentrate battle dress at range but may be able to hit a joint up close, considering that 95% battle dress covers the wearer with high desity composites and only 5% are covered by flexible seals. Since most people dont run around in anything more than cloth evading and cover takes on a more important role as it should in any game were missle weapons pay a major role.

 

[Olschoolgamer]

Originally posted by Employee 2-4601:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Olschoolgamer:

1: Combat is very lethal in CT. The average person being UPP 777777 will probably go down in the first round of combat if hit by anything bigger than a Foil, hand or claw. While this is realistic, it can cause some disappointment in players to survive character generation only to be gunned to in the back alleys of some back world slum. I do not wish to recreate Heinlens Starship Troopers and have all the characters run around in Battle dress. Of course civilian cloth armor will be available. What I was thinking about was a few mechanics like adding ST AG EN together to arrive at hit points. Right now we are playing WFRP and I thnik the combat in that world of perilous adventure is not as deadly as Traveller.

A few tips about making combat less lethal:
1) Get rid of the "first blood" rule....
2) Change the way armor works; instead of it having DMs to hit, have armor absorb damage (or better yet, damage dice)....
</font>[/QUOTE]This makes sense. The first blood rule is the most lethal part of combat. I can modify the to hit like Sigg suggested and use the Pentration armor rules from Azhanti. So that diced are dropped for armor factors. I am a firm believer that a body pistol should not be able to pentrate battle dress at range but may be able to hit a joint up close, considering that 95% battle dress covers the wearer with high desity composites and only 5% are covered by flexible seals. Since most people dont run around in anything more than cloth evading and cover takes on a more important role as it should in any game were missle weapons pay a major role.

 

[Jamus]

I use siggs end test to get back up from being made unconscious through first blood rule... whew..

basically allow a end based test to downed players to allow them to get back into the fight. allow mods for first aid recieved and neg mods for damage recieved greater than the stat reduced to zero. it works and keeps the action seats edge while allowing for some gritty heroism.

 

[Jamus]

I use siggs end test to get back up from being made unconscious through first blood rule... whew..

basically allow a end based test to downed players to allow them to get back into the fight. allow mods for first aid recieved and neg mods for damage recieved greater than the stat reduced to zero. it works and keeps the action seats edge while allowing for some gritty heroism.

 

[Olschoolgamer]

All this being said, and correct me if I am out of line, posting in the wrong forum, or commiting heresy. But what about the MT rules? I Have read in other posts that they have some validity and the MT system is a good system. I have also read that they are a pile of Vargr kidneys and are not usable. Also, I like how TNE does the wounds. Graduating the "hit points" down to represent levels of injury, this is about the only thing I like about TNE. What do you all think of these other systems?

 

[Olschoolgamer]

All this being said, and correct me if I am out of line, posting in the wrong forum, or commiting heresy. But what about the MT rules? I Have read in other posts that they have some validity and the MT system is a good system. I have also read that they are a pile of Vargr kidneys and are not usable. Also, I like how TNE does the wounds. Graduating the "hit points" down to represent levels of injury, this is about the only thing I like about TNE. What do you all think of these other systems?

 

[mike wightman]

MT works really well - each weapon has a penetration rating and a damage rating.

My only problem is the amount of math required to calculate how the amount of armour penetration affects the amount of damage.

To determine the actual damage suffered
by a target, compare the weapon’s penetration at that
range to the target’s armor.
If the weapon’s penetration is at least twice the armor value,
the weapon inflicts its full damage point value. This is known
as a high penetration result.
If the weapon’s penetration is at least equal to the armor
value, then the weapon inflicts 50 percent of its damage point
value. This is sometimes referred to as a low penetration result.
If penetration is less than the armor value, the weapon inflicts
10 percent of its damage point value if the target is a
character with exposed areas of less than the full armor value.
On the other hand, if the character is fully enclosed in the armor,
the hit has no effect. Vehicles and robots always apply
such hits as structure damage. This is known as a zero penerration
result.
Marginal Success: If the task roll (including DMs) is equal
to the roll that is needed for success, marginal success (a
graze) has occurred: apply 50 percent of the normal damage
point value (drop fractions).

My players often couldn't do the math themselves so I had to - this slows the game down too much for me. But with a group who can handle the math it is a grat system.

Another thing is the damage rating is fixed points, not damage dice (physical stats are totalled and used to determine a Life Force rating). Characteristic damage is then determined after the combat.
My players like to roll damage

TNE is the odd one out in Traveller combat systems. PCs can actually survive a couple of plasma gun hits. Reduce the location hit points and the game plays better IMHO.

 

[mike wightman]

MT works really well - each weapon has a penetration rating and a damage rating.

My only problem is the amount of math required to calculate how the amount of armour penetration affects the amount of damage.

To determine the actual damage suffered
by a target, compare the weapon’s penetration at that
range to the target’s armor.
If the weapon’s penetration is at least twice the armor value,
the weapon inflicts its full damage point value. This is known
as a high penetration result.
If the weapon’s penetration is at least equal to the armor
value, then the weapon inflicts 50 percent of its damage point
value. This is sometimes referred to as a low penetration result.
If penetration is less than the armor value, the weapon inflicts
10 percent of its damage point value if the target is a
character with exposed areas of less than the full armor value.
On the other hand, if the character is fully enclosed in the armor,
the hit has no effect. Vehicles and robots always apply
such hits as structure damage. This is known as a zero penerration
result.
Marginal Success: If the task roll (including DMs) is equal
to the roll that is needed for success, marginal success (a
graze) has occurred: apply 50 percent of the normal damage
point value (drop fractions).

My players often couldn't do the math themselves so I had to - this slows the game down too much for me. But with a group who can handle the math it is a grat system.

Another thing is the damage rating is fixed points, not damage dice (physical stats are totalled and used to determine a Life Force rating). Characteristic damage is then determined after the combat.
My players like to roll damage

TNE is the odd one out in Traveller combat systems. PCs can actually survive a couple of plasma gun hits. Reduce the location hit points and the game plays better IMHO.

 

[Olschoolgamer]

I have done alot of research on the 3 different rules sets I have and it would seem to me that CT has the best, and easiest to modify, combat system. While the other systems, MT and TNE, have more rules for covering various situations these just make playing more complicated. Thank you all for the suggestions made so far. Does anyone have a good CT character sheet?

 

[Olschoolgamer]

I have done alot of research on the 3 different rules sets I have and it would seem to me that CT has the best, and easiest to modify, combat system. While the other systems, MT and TNE, have more rules for covering various situations these just make playing more complicated. Thank you all for the suggestions made so far. Does anyone have a good CT character sheet?

 

[aramis]

MT works, but works better if you change the breakpoints to match the damage multipliers.

You can simplify MT combat drastically by listing pen by range band. Eliminates the most frequent divisions.

 

[aramis]

MT works, but works better if you change the breakpoints to match the damage multipliers.

You can simplify MT combat drastically by listing pen by range band. Eliminates the most frequent divisions.