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Classic vs Mongoose vs 5th ed

I am new to Traveller and I got the Classic Traveller because I would probably buy any older game reprinted in such an outstanding format (kudos, FFE), and because I am a sci fi nut. I have all but 4 books of the Classic Traveller reprints and plan to get even those to have the whole set. Traveller has a fantastic reputation as a science fiction/space opera RPG. However, it also has a reputation for being complicated enough to give Hari Seldon a headache.

Now, I discover that Mongoose games has a Traveller in print and that Traveller 5th edition is/may be on its way. Thus, I am wondering what are the differences between CT, MT, and T5? I mean, why would I get MT or T5 if I have CT? Should I get a newer version? Or is one system compatible?

MT says it's updated and streamlined, but that is rather vague and I have had quality issues with some of their other games (Conan D20--:mad:). Plus, they are producing many, many books for the game. That's all good, but in case no one's noticed, money has become a bit tight of late, so I kinda would like a "Buy one book and game your brains out" RPG.

T5 is a pdf (I hate pdf's) but presumably it will be a dead tree (recycled pulp?) soon, and it is, like, 500 or some odd pages, which sounds ecouraging...:D Plus, it is by the original creator, so that is very cool. It's as if Gygax had gotten a chance to return to AD&D and do a really awesome fix up after 30 years. I like the sound of that.

Can any body offer advice?
 
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You're in the CT forum so... I'm going to tell you to ignore MgT and stick with a proven system.

No follow-up system has quite managed to capture the full magic of LBB's, Marc Miller and J Andrew Keith adventures, a rag tag collection of war games, and the original JTAS magazine.

I personally find GURPS Traveller to be fairly unplayable as a system. I'm surprised by how well crafted TNE is. If you're disappointed by MgT's professionalism, I'm sure you'll find things to complain about with MgT. T5 is something you'll have to wait on unless you're willing to spring for a "playtest" CD-ROM.

If you can't stand PDF format, you should be able to find copies of the CT reprints at fair prices. I'd stick with them and augment my arsenal with a couple of well placed CD-Rom purchases from FFE. If you want something "cleaned up" or modernized, I'd look at picking out a few choice GURPS Traveller books.

CT is not monster complicated. I'd just stick with Books 1-3, Adventures 1-3, The Traveller Adventure, and Supplements 1-4 an just roll with it. That's a perfectly good game system right there. If you want a monster game, try High Guard and/or Striker. But they're strickly optional, of course.

Just my advice. Pure opinion, of course.
 
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Can any body offer advice?
Be concious of the difference between a game system and a game setting. Even if you like CT better than MgT, there's nothing to prevent you from using MgT setting material with your CT game. If you think the Official Traveller Universe is too big and confusing (30 years' worth of accumulated information) or bland (no nanogoo) or just plain not a place you want to adventure in, just use the rules you like best and make up your own universe. If you think MgT's rules are nifty but don't care for their spin on the OTU, there's nothing to prevent you from using MgT rules with CT adventures.

And if you like having a big, complicated universe, if far from being daunted by the amount of information available you think that an entire universe ought to be overwhelming, that it makes the whole roleplaying experience more real to know that there is a vast universe out there, that it isn't just you and a few fellow adventurers having all the fun, but that life is going on everywhere around you, if you think the more information you can get, the better, then I suggest you try to get some of the GURPS Traveller books and whatever else you can get your hands on. You don't need to use the rules if you don't like them, but they're full of good meaty setting material too. (Some of them more than others).


Hans
 
I'm not a GURPS fan, as a rule. I mean, if I really don't mind it so much, but it is so much. I really dislike having to buy multiple books to play a single game (not a D&D player here- Warhammer 1st is all I need!). That's why I bought the Classic Traveller books (I have all of FFE's reprints except Double Adventures, JTAS 13-24, JTAS 25-36, and Aliens vol. 2)- one book is all you need! I just wanted the others.:D

I am an amateur author and will most likely be playing in the universe I designed for my novel. Or, well, Asimov's 'Verse. However, I know next to nothing about the Traveller universe, so I may run it for the games.

I am most curious about the rules. Specifically, how technology is handled, which technologies may be present/absent from the various editions, and how flexible (easy it is to house rule) the system is.
 
CT is definitley where it is "at", man, as they would say in the 50's. CT is better than all the Traveller game systems that followed.

I'd suggest you get the CT CD-ROM, though. It's the entire game--everythign published by GDW--for $35 bucks.

That's a lot more cost efficient than buying the FFE reprints (although, the reprints are nice--I have them and not the CD-ROM).
 
Heh. I already have the reprints. Bought them today. I hate pdf's. Honest. I'm not just saying that to avoid saving an insane amount of money. lol. Looking at a computer screen gives me a headache.

I had a buddie in college who was a Traveller freak and he used to go on about its greatness. I hope he and the millions of CT fans are right.

Mostly, I guess I'm concearned that certain technologies/sci fi sub-genres may not addressed. I am interested in cybernetics, transgenics, nanotech, and quantum wierdness (but not freakin' time travel. I am f'in' sick of time travel. IT! IS! NOT! POSSIBLE! Grrrr...). Of course, if the rues set is flexible enough, I'll just house rule it to death.

I even got some old "environment" books by a non-GDW company. Desert, Underwater, and Mountain environments.
 
CT is definitley where it is "at", man, as they would say in the 50's. CT is better than all the Traveller game systems that followed.

I'd suggest you get the CT CD-ROM, though. It's the entire game--everythign published by GDW--for $35 bucks.

That's a lot more cost efficient than buying the FFE reprints (although, the reprints are nice--I have them and not the CD-ROM).

Agreed. the CD-ROM also has The Traveller Book, which is an reformated and more accessible version of Books 1-3.

I'd stick with Classic Traveller as well. MegaTraveller is too riddled with errors IMHO and isn't a real improvement over CT in any case. MGT is just lame. I boughtMercenary and found it to be the worst written/edited professional gaming product ever--quite an accomplishment when I think of 30+ years of gaming... I bought MGT High Guard and found it better, but still underwhelming. Haven't been back.

Anyhow, CT has tremendous scope. There's cool military hardware in Book 4; just be advised that some folks (myself included) think that Books 4-8 generate characters that are noticeably superior to CT. If you agree, the fix is simple -- limit Book 4-8 characters to the same number of skills. There are relatively simple rules to build and fight giganormous starships in Book 5. Etc. If you want a more detailed combat system, you have TWO alternatives -- Snapshot or Azhanti High Lightening.

In my opinion, there's no contest.
 
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...Mostly, I guess I'm concerned that certain technologies/sci fi sub-genres may not addressed. I am interested in cybernetics, transgenics, nanotech, and quantum wierdness (but not freakin' time travel. I am f'in' sick of time travel. IT! IS! NOT! POSSIBLE! Grrrr...).

Well, on the good news side, there is no time travel :)

Cybernetics, transgenics, nanotech, and quantum weirdness aren't really spelled out in CT but they can be glimpsed just below the surface. Stuff like "Book 8 - Robots" can be pretty easily adapted to cybernetics. I have been able to adapt CT to just about anything Sci-Fi and vice versa over the years. It's pretty open to that.

I only recently got Mongoose Publishing Traveller (MPT) core book and haven't gotten too far into it. Not enough for a solidly backed opinion unless the trend I'm seeing continues. Odd choices in what to "fix" (it wasn't broke) or change (for no reason I could see beyond for sake of change itself) and what to leave broken (when there was an easy fix).

I haven't really been following T5 but what I've seen doesn't inspire me much. It seems to be trying to be... what... the ultimate Traveller by simple bulk of material, by covering every possibly conceivable angle of sci-fi rpg gaming. Not that it's a bad thing to aim high, I just don't believe it's attainable or desirable. And I've always thought CT hit that mark by being simple and open to user modification and not by being hard coded. That would be my major fault of many that came after it. Just my outside opinion of course. Lots actually involved in it seem to think it's pretty good and I'm hoping they're right. Just not holding my breath any more on the actual release ;)
 
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Mostly, I guess I'm concearned that certain technologies/sci fi sub-genres may not addressed. I am interested in cybernetics, transgenics, nanotech, and quantum wierdness (but not freakin' time travel. I am f'in' sick of time travel. IT! IS! NOT! POSSIBLE! Grrrr...). Of course, if the rues set is flexible enough, I'll just house rule it to death.
Ok, I love CT, but CT imho falls short in each of those categories. It is very much a product of its time, and its time is the late 70s and early 80s. Mongoose hits those notes well enough, but... Mongoose Traveller has some sore spots too (they need to invest time and effort into quality control). GURPS hits all those spots nicely, but not in a Traveller setting. You'd really have to purchase copies of GURPS Space, GURPS Biotech, GURPS Ultratech, and maybe GURPS Transhuman space. All of your bases would be covered, except like I said, you wouldn't be playing Traveller.

If you are just looking for a Traveller experience, CT would do you fine. If you really want more up-to-date scifi flavor, you may consider adding the MGT core book to that and house rule a bunch of there stuff into CT.

If you want maximum flexibility and some scifi that's not Traveller I'd suggest going with GURPS.
 
Howardfanatic,

Well, you have CT so that's where you can start. CT is very good and is rather malleable. As the others here are undoubtedly sick of hearing, I once used CT to run a pulp fiction style campaign set during the Chaco War of the 1930s.

As good as it is however, CT has it's issues. You really should get hold of MT's task system and use that with CT's rules. That task system will allow you to cut down on the dozens of die roll modifiers that all too easily creep into CT's "Roll 8+" system. The task system is easy, fairly intuitive, and - if you ignore the time increment portion - very rapid.

The next problem you'll have with CT is your interest in technologies. Technology is sort of "behind the curtain" in CT. You can build ships and robots, but there's no official rules for building vehicles or anything else. There are some nice fan written rules for vehicle building, they can be found on the 'net, and sadly they're in .pdf format.

Two versions of the game, TNE and T4, had nicely detailed "technical architecture" books known as Fire, Fusion, & Steel. Version 1 belonged to TNE and version 2 to T4. The TNE version is harder to 'port into CT because TNE used a very different RPG system. The T4 version is easier to 'port, but T4 was shoddily proofread and shoddily printed. There's an errata document for the T4 version easily found on the 'net and it too is in .pdf format.

Now, a word about the other versions of Traveller, especially the GURPS version. While their RPG systems may be hard or nearly impossible to 'port into CT, many of the supplements are worth plundering for various ideas. You'll have to ask for opinions of all the various supplements, but there are excellent bits to be found in G:T, T20, MgT and in the other non-GDW and non-Miller versions.

MgT is relatively new on the scene, but they've already published a few supplements and adventures. Opinion of MgT is mixed, but I've seen some things that are well worth using in any campaign . As Dan pointed out, Mongoose has made a lot of seemingly odd choices. I believe many of these are due to Mongoose's desire to use Traveller as a basic rules set for non-Traveller settings, while others are due to a combination of Mongoose's unfamiliarity with the game and laughable playtesting. Using Traveller as a basic rules set is a good idea, but Mongoose has sadly gone about it ass-backwards.

We all know the story. GDW first published sci-fi RPG rules called Traveller. Aside from certain technical contraints, like no warp drive and no light sabers for example, the rules were originally setting free. As GDW published more material however, the official setting became more and more entwined in the rules until it was next to impossible to determine what was a Traveller rule and what was a rule for the Official Traveller Universe.

Jump forward thirty years and Mongoose, already a successful game publisher, is looking to crack into the sci-fi RPG market. They buy a Traveller license, partially rework the rules, release them, and then begin releasing non-Traveller settings for those rules like B5 and Hammer's Slammers. In doing this, Mongoose makes the same mistake GDW did decades ago and the same mistake T5 is making now. Unlike SJGames and with the textbook example of GURPS in front of them, Mongoose fails to sufficiently separate the setting from the rules.

Mongoose's version of Mercenary has a weapon within it that belongs in something like WH40K. Why? Because Mongoose will be releasing a WH40K supplement that will use Traveller rules. Mongoose's version of High Guard has a plasma screen it, obviously there for some future sci-fi setting release and footnoted so that hopefully no one will use it in Traveller. Sadly what Mongoose is doing will further confuse just does and what doesn't belong in the Official Traveller Universe.

If Mongoose had wanted to do the job right, or if they hadn't been in a hurry, they would have taken the Traveller rules they licensed and stripped them down into a basic set of truly setting-free sci-fi rules. In those rules they could have added all the non-Traveller setting bits, technologies, and other concepts they needed. They could have then published a Traveller setting supplement showing a GM how to use and modify the basic rules to create campaigns in the Official Traveller Universe. Other supplements, like those for B5 and Hammer's Slammers would have done the same for those specific settings.

Of course, the basic rules Mongoose would have created would not have had the word Traveller written across the top and that's most likely the primary reason why Mongoose did not decide to go with the far superior and much less confusing "Basic Rules/Setting Supplements" model. Mongoose needed the Traveller name.

You see, Mongoose needed the nameplate, they needed the built in fan base Traveller would give them, and they have apparently no concerns about further muddling, confusing, and downright corrupting Traveller setting canon with concepts and technologies derived from other sci-fi settings.

Just like Ford buying Jaguar for the nameplate, Mongoose has a Traveller license for the next decade. It should be interesting to see what happens over that time.


Regards,
Bill
 
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Bill I agree with your assesment of Mongoose Traveller. They bought the nameplate to appeal to the Traveller fan base and mold to new settings but have appraoched it all wrong like you said. I had hopes they would have stripped the rules down and then introduce the non OTU Traveller stuff in seperate setting books but they didn't. They really didn't understand Traveller (or didn't really care). Mercenary with it's 500 meter range TL 8 anti-tank guns that get fixed to a 500 kilometer range TL 8 anti-tank guns in the errata is a huge, snap my suspenders so hard my pants fall off BAD and then the head of Mongoose (or the Traveller line) telling me in a later post on their forum in a thread about the subject that maybe I should read up on the advances of today's artillery that I just might be suprised. I haven't bought any more of their Traveller books since and I seriously doubt I ever will (except stuff written by Avenger and Spica who typically try to know something about the subject matter of the supplement they are producing).

As the others here are undoubtedly sick of hearing, I once used CT to run a pulp fiction style campaign set during the Chaco War of the 1930s.

I think it's been mentioned seventeen times but who's really counting? :D
It does show CT's flexibility.
 
And what, may I ask, is wrong with Time Travel? I've used Traveller rules to run a Time Travel campaign that's been running for years. Therein lies the beauty of a fairly comprehensive, tech-level-scaled game system. I've got tools and rules to run everything from the Stone Age to the Space Age.
 
As the others here are undoubtedly sick of hearing, I once used CT to run a pulp fiction style campaign set during the Chaco War of the 1930s.
I've never read it. Any link to one of the 17 (?) :eek:o: instances? :rofl:
It sounds like a great Pulp game

Just like Ford buying Jaguar for the nameplate, Mongoose has a Traveller license for the next decade. It should be interesting to see what happens over that time.
Well if Ford hadn't bought Jaguar it would be dead now. Traveller was growing quite morbid. Mongoose has injected a lot of life into Traveller. Even if you don't like it it's brought new players. As always with Traveller you can loot the bodies of the new rules and incorporate the ideas into your Traveller game.
 
Heh. I already have the reprints. Bought them today. I hate pdf's.

I'm not that crazy about pdf's either. I bought the books, too. ;)



I had a buddie in college who was a Traveller freak and he used to go on about its greatness. I hope he and the millions of CT fans are right.

By most guestimates, there are still more people playing CT than any other version of Traveller.

Says something about the rules/game.



Mostly, I guess I'm concearned that certain technologies/sci fi sub-genres may not addressed. I am interested in cybernetics, transgenics, nanotech, and quantum wierdness (but not freakin' time travel. I am f'in' sick of time travel. IT! IS! NOT! POSSIBLE! Grrrr...). Of course, if the rues set is flexible enough, I'll just house rule it to death.

CT is made to house rule. Look at Book 0. There's a section that discusses it!

CT is meant to be a framework--a guideline. It's old school gaming before d20 came into existence and brainwashed everyone into believing that if a rule was written down in an official book somewhere, it wasn't a real rule.

Look at the From the Management section of JTAS #2. LKW shows GMs how to make a laser pistol out of the rules already presented.

Ya, see. That's CT's thing. It's extremely flexible. It was designed that way. As Whipsnade said above, CT was originally developed as a generic set of rules. The setting of the Third Imperium grew up later.

Now...as Far Trader said...the bad news. CT doesn't hit a lot on what you're looking for in the way of new "tech". CT has a decidedly "classic science fiction" feel to it--again, by design. It goes with the science fiction of the 1960's-1970's.

But, the good news, as you, yourself, said, is that you can house rule it. Grab a Mongoose Traveller supplement that allows some of that tech. Or, grab another version of Traveller and convert to CT. Or...grab something from another game and convert to CT.

Or, even, make it up yourself! That's what was originally intended for CT.

Let's say you read about some neat tech in the latest novel you're reading. No problem. Slap it into CT!

I would caution you to read Book 0, though, as it discusses the impact of changing certain things, like slapping in Star Wars hyperdrive for Traveller's Jump drive. Sometimes you will fall victim to the rule of unintended consequences, so be careful.





I even got some old "environment" books by a non-GDW company. Desert, Underwater, and Mountain environments.

Those are great. I think they're a little too "grognardy", though. The Mountain one, especially. Creating a mountain template is a chore. It's like designing a vehicle. It can be cool if you like that sort of thing (and I do love planet building when I have time), but if you're strapped for time, those rules don't lend themselves to quick-n-easy gameplay.

Another, side thing, that you'll find evident in those rules are the neat way they suggest substituting certain skill during character generation. Keep note of that if you want to customize a career for a specific place (say, for Tukera Merchants or Regina Naval personnel). Also keep it in mind if you just want a certain type of skill to be available to the players before the game starts. You can give them a chance to get it, without forcing it on them, during chargen.

This is a nice way to include skills that you invent yourself as well (especially if you're going to introduce new tech).





As good as it is however, CT has it's issues. You really should get hold of MT's task system and use that with CT's rules. That task system will allow you to cut down on the dozens of die roll modifiers that all too easily creep into CT's "Roll 8+" system. The task system is easy, fairly intuitive, and - if you ignore the time increment portion - very rapid.

Howardfanatic,

I'm a fan of CT's free flow system. It's a non-structured task system that allows the GM to customize a throw based on the situation.

To get youself comfortable with this old school style of task system, you might want to peek at the article I wrote, linked in my sig, called Rule 68A. I think you might find that useful.

Still, if you want to use a task system, the MT task system that Whipsnade speaks of was originally designed for use by DGP for Classic Traveller. When they wrote MT, they brought forward the, then optional, task system they had written.

It's a good task system.

I think a better task system, designed especially for CT, is the Universal Game Mechanic. You'll find that linked in my sig as well. I wrote it long before Mongoose Traveller came out (and MGT's task system is very similar). But, I think you'll find that the UGM fits with CT much better than either the MT task system or the one used in MGT.

On task systems, my advice is to:

1 - Use the original CT task system, if you understand it (many people think they do but really do not).

2 - Second choice is the UGM, linked in my sig.

3 - Third choice is the MT task system (officially known as the UTP). You can find a copy of it on the net.

4 - Fourth, you can go with the MGT task system, the T4 task system, or the T5 task system. This is a distant fourth choice, though. I strongly suggest you evaluate choices 1-3 above first.

BTW, one of the best discussions you'll find about the non-structured original CT task system is in the early pages of the Traveller Adventure. Flip through that...there's about a full page where MWM describes how throws can be handled. I touch on some of them in the Rule 68A thread, too.





PS - Howardfanatic....

Means you're a Robert E. Howard fanatic?

If so, we share two passions, Traveller and Howard.
 
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Howardfanatic, as you will have noticed, there are almost as many different opinions as players, and feelings run pretty high about which systems are 'best'.

You have already bought the Classic Traveller books and that is a good start. You don't need anything else, though you can add as much chrome from other sources as you want. :)

Personally, rather than buying any other rule sets, I'd just wait till you have something you want to introduce but can't find a rule for, and then post a query here. You'll get more suggestions than you need. :)

I find CT to be very flexible. I use it as the core for my game and then just add in other items and house-rules as I see fit. Traveller isn't a complex game to play and doesn't have to be complex to GM. If you can handle high-school maths, you can handle Trav, and if you struggle with calculations there are a number of spreadsheets out there that will do the number crunching for you.

The main complexity isn't with the play rules but the design rules. It can take a while to design ships and vehicles from scratch but as I said there are spreadsheets to help, and plenty of pre-designed stuff out there to just pick up and use. Let yourself in as gently as you want. (Traveller does have a vehicle design set, it's called Striker and it's on the CD). I would recommend buying the CD even if you don't like pdfs, you can skim through to find rules you want and print the stuff off.

Hope that helps.
 
It sounds like a great Pulp game.


Zonk,

It was. Biplanes, WW1 light tanks, riverboats, hidden Pre-Columbian cities, lost trribes, psionics or maybe magic, poison arrows, trained jaguars, everything but Nazis and Doc Savage.

Well if Ford hadn't bought Jaguar it would be dead now.

Under Ford's hands, Jaguar might as well be dead.

Traveller was growing quite morbid.

Moribund. The word you're looking for is moribund. Morbid means behaving like Wednesday Addams.

And Traveller wasn't moribund either. SJGames still supports it and I've yet to see a MgT supplement that is better than it's GT counterpart. T5 is the wings and there is quite a Traveller web presence. Given how many people use previous rules systems and plunder the rest, a new rules system wasn't exactly needed.

Of course, Mongoose didn't release MgT just to provide another rules system for Traveller. They had something bigger in mind, as you'll read below.

Mongoose has injected a lot of life into Traveller.

Traveller already had a lot of life, but Mongoose injected a lot of other things into Traveller. :(

Even if you don't like it it's brought new players.

Let's see if they last any amount of time before passing judgment. MgT could just be the flavor of the month and all these new players could easily run off to the Next Big Thing.

As always with Traveller you can loot the bodies of the new rules and incorporate the ideas into your Traveller game.

I plan on doing that and have already done so in some cases. What I don't like are all the things Mongoose has crammed willy-nilly into Traveller with an eye towards future setting releases.

You know some poor confused soul is going to show up here after Hammer's Slammers is released asking why the Imperium doesn't use power guns and why the Slammers don't use gravitics because both technologies are right there in the rules. And then we'll have to explain to him how Mongoose screwed up and didn't sufficiently separate the basic rules from the setting specific rules.

And when Mongoose releases another setting and another setting and another setting, we'll be here patiently explaining that, no, Kzinti aren't in the Traveller setting and, no, warp drive isn't in the Traveller setting and, no, melange isn't in the Traveller setting, and, no, whatever else Mongoose slapped into the books despite the Traveller title isn't in the Traveller setting.

We've been dealing with this issue for thirty years now because GDW also failed to separate the basic rules from the setting rules. GDW had an excuse; RPGs were new and the Basic Rules/Setting Rules paradigm hadn't yet been developed. Mongoose has no excuse, the examples of GDW's failure and SJGame's success are right there in front of them. Mongoose didn't do it right because they didn't have the time to do it right, didn't actually care to do it right, needed the Traveller nameplate to sell their books, or some mixture of the three.

So, in Mercenary, a book about the ground military in the Traveller setting, we've WH40K hand catapults and anime artillery with a 500km range without a single jot or tittle stating that those items belong to another setting.

And we'll be explaining why neither are part of the Traveller setting for thirty more years. Thank you, Mongoose.


Regards,
Bill
 
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I'm not that crazy about pdf's either. I bought the books, too. ;)

Hardcopy books are superior.

PDFs are electronic data. In the event that The Virus suddenly attacks our Earth in the catastrophic Year 2012 (just ask the Mayans), then we can assume that all technology and all electronic data in our world will essentially be wiped out, or corrupted, defiled, etc.

But I'll still have my original LBBs and hardcopy books. :D
 
In the event that The Virus suddenly attacks our Earth in the catastrophic Year 2012 (just ask the Mayans), then we can assume that all technology and all electronic data in our world will essentially be wiped out, or corrupted, defiled, etc.

But I'll still have my original LBBs and hardcopy books. :D
Allowing you to carve out a niche in the local warlord's gang by running games for his warriors. Nice job if you can get it.


Hans
 
If Mongoose had wanted to do the job right, or if they hadn't been in a hurry, they would have taken the Traveller rules they licensed and stripped them down into a basic set of truly setting-free sci-fi rules.

Well, it should be clear by now to anyone who cares to take notice that Mongoose does not grok Traveller. And given their inability to turn out a better than mediocre set of rules, I guess we shouldn't be stunned that they degraded the OTU as well.
 
Bill I agree with your assesment of Mongoose Traveller. They bought the nameplate to appeal to the Traveller fan base and mold to new settings but have appraoched it all wrong like you said. I had hopes they would have stripped the rules down and then introduce the non OTU Traveller stuff in seperate setting books but they didn't. They really didn't understand Traveller (or didn't really care). Mercenary with it's 500 meter range TL 8 anti-tank guns that get fixed to a 500 kilometer range TL 8 anti-tank guns in the errata is a huge, snap my suspenders so hard my pants fall off BAD and then the head of Mongoose (or the Traveller line) telling me in a later post on their forum in a thread about the subject that maybe I should read up on the advances of today's artillery that I just might be suprised.

Well, as the designer of the modern miniature wargame rules A Fistful of TOWs I, II (and III this summer), I keep tabs on current military tech (especially as my first FFT3 supplement will be FFT:2030, a mid 21st century sci-fi miniatures wargame).

500 km range AT guns are absurd at TL8. Period.

Currently, the longest range TL8 battlefield direct fire antitank munition is probably the 120mm XM-1111 MRM (Mid Range Munition) round, fired from the 120mm gun of the M1A1/2 Abrams (and other Western MBTs). It will eventually be able to hit targets 12km away, using dual mode sensors (radar and laser guidance). It approaches and finds the target at relatively low speed, then fires a rocket to achieve bullet type speed to penetrate the target with a small diameter penetrator made of very dense metal (like depleted uranium). (The Israeli LAHAT 120mm missile has a version with 13km range, but AFAIK, that version isn't fired from a tank gun.)

While there are obviously missile systems with 500km ranges, nothing is in the weight and mobility range of an AT gun.

They really didn't understand Traveller (or didn't really care).

Yup; that's the most offensive aspect of MGT to me. They neither know much about the topic, nor do they care.

But then, I knew we were in trouble when the designer of MGT didn't even know what an assault rifle was until it was hammered home late in the playtest. Apparently, MGT designers can't be bothered to actually learn something about modern weaponry...

So ridiculous WH40K weapons in Mercenary were hardly shocking to me...
 
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