Classic vs Mongoose vs 5th ed

[robject]

I am new to Traveller and I got the Classic Traveller because I would probably buy any older game reprinted in such an outstanding format (kudos, FFE), and because I am a sci fi nut.

Take CT and adapt it to your needs; it's flexible enough to go a long way, and has all you need to start something up. No need to buy anything new until you're dissatisfied with what you have, which may be never!

If you feel the need to inject fancy modern sci-fi tech into CT, shop around. Maybe look at a GURPS supplement, or glance over Mongoose Traveller and see if it has things to import... to CT. Or house rule it. CT is a good foundation on which to add new things.

why would I get MT or T5 if I have CT? Should I get a newer version? Or is one system compatible?

I would hope it's because you'd decide that T5 is a better version of Traveller. And yes, T5 has many compatibilities with CT, to the point where you can upgrade CT piecemeal with parts of T5 according to your preferences. For the first time, I no longer feel I need CT -- and I was CT all the way.

[...]

T5 is a pdf (I hate pdf's) but presumably it will be a dead tree (recycled pulp?) soon, and it is, like, 500 or some odd pages, which sounds ecouraging... Plus, it is by the original creator, so that is very cool. It's as if Gygax had gotten a chance to return to AD&D and do a really awesome fix up after 30 years. I like the sound of that.

Can any body offer advice?

I'm part of the T5 playtest, and it is cool that Marc has a chance to revisit the rules. In a way, he's trying to rewrite CT. There's a fundamental compatibility: things designed in T5 are usable "out of the box" with CT, except for armor, I think. The compatibilities are deliberate. But, for now, use CT; T5's is still undergoing playtest and draft updates, so there's no dead tree edition yet, and progress is slow but steady.

 

[Border Reiver]

Well I actually play MGT, albeit houseruled for combat and with my own Vehicle Design System and a few other bits and pieces ripped from other Traveller editions or even other games. And I (and I hope my fellow players) enjoy it.

If your looking for a simulationist game that details every aspect of your personal universe this isn't your game. If your looking for a relatively simple and fun SFRPG give it a go. Try Book 0 or even fork out for the Pocket Edition.

 

[howardfanatic]

Well, I am much reassured by what I've read. CT sounds right for me. I love house rules, and I LOVE classic sci fi (reading Venus Equilateral right now!). Plus, I understand that tech changes extremely fast and it is nearly impossible to predict what forms it will take in the future (DNA computers... are you freakin' kidding!? lol). However, if the system is as flexible as is noted, then it should suit my needs fine. I read copious amounts of research for my novel, so I am very familiar with the tech I love.
A few points:

I thought the vehicle design rules were in the Classic Games book as a part of Stryker (I think...). Man, I hope so... I bought that book to have those rules. lol.

Yes, I am a huge Robert E. Howard fan. I even wrote a couple of college papers on his work. He is the best fantasy author, period. No offense, but Tolkein's antiseptic world of Arayan elves and noble kings cannot even begin to challenge the dirty, backalley realism of Howard's vision. Awesome stuff!

Mobgoose is better than WOTC, in my opinion. Their Runequest was good, but they did make some odd changes. It sounds like their Traveller is good, but also a bit odd. I really wish they had released Conan in a playable system. D20 is the stuff of nightmares. I hate that system.

I knew that Traveller fans were rather, um, rabid. lol. My friend in college would barely let me touch his books! He ran everything in CT rules, even his AD&D games. I am not surprised by the loyalty of the fans to the game.

T5 sounds much more to be what I am looking for to add to my CT set. When is it due in book form?

I have almost every book in the CT set now. I am missing only Aliens 2, JTAS 13-24, and JTAS 25-36. I got the mother of all bargains on ebay- 3 CT books for $40 including shipping! lol The reprints are just such a great bargain! I want 101 Robots, but it is selling for over $100. Yikes!

 

[Supplement Four]

I have almost every book in the CT set now. I am missing only Aliens 2, JTAS 13-24, and JTAS 25-36. I got the mother of all bargains on ebay- 3 CT books for $40 including shipping! lol The reprints are just such a great bargain! I want 101 Robots, but it is selling for over $100. Yikes!

Yeah...

I've been collecting CT for years, since I first started playing rpgs. There is so much more to CT than just the GDW stuff. Several other publishers have made great contributions to the game. The problem is: Traveller stuff from these other publishers is out of print and hard to find (and expensive, usually, when you find it).

Even the magazines hold a treasure trove of CT goodness. The entire JTAS run is superb. The Traveller's digest is awesome, too (by DGP).

There's lots of great stuff out there from different publishers. As a whole, it makes CT a superior game.

 

[Britti_Lover]

"I personally find GURPS Traveller to be fairly unplayable as a system."

:frankie:

NICE - I've been running GURPS Traveller for 11 years now and really like it.

First of all, its GURPS and it does what it was created to do: ALLOW you to play GURPS in the Traveller Universe.

Currently, Gurps Traveller books are $4.95 and up in paper and $2.95 and up as a .pdf.

All Gurps Traveller books and adventures (and there are some really good ones like "Nobles") can be used with any other Traveller rules set.

Classic Traveller is really good, I played it for 10 years and it is a clean and simple set of rules. Cheap too - I've seen books 1-3 in reprint for $12.95 before.

Mongoose Traveller is an updated set of Classic Traveller rules that allow you to play the classic game - but updated for more detailed role-playing.

Between Classic Traveller and GURPS I played the GDW House System that included TNE.

The main advantage to GHS and GURPS is I could play other RPG's like Dark Conspiracy or Gurps WW2 with the same basic rules.

There is really no bad choices here - and you can mix and match too, buying modules from various versions of Traveller as you perfer.

http://www.warehouse23.com/info/traveller.html

 

[Supplement Four]

Mongoose Traveller is an updated set of Classic Traveller rules that allow you to play the classic game - but updated for more detailed role-playing.

It always cracks me up to see statements like this made about CT and MGT.

 

[Britti_Lover]

"It always cracks me up to see statements like this made about CT and MGT."

In case you are wondering - I've got a complete set of Classic Traveller rules in mint condition.

The main failing of CT is the characters have NO DEPTH compared to more modern systems released later. CT characters are a bare bones string of numbers only.

GURPS allows for TRUE role-playing characters, with advantages, disadvantages and quirks - just like REAL people.

Mongoose Traveller adds desperately needed detail to the CT bare bones string of numbers.

 

[aramis]

As many feel that GURPS gets in the way of true roleplaying by having too many numbers, and too many limits on how you play your character.

 

[Icosahedron]

A few points:

I thought the vehicle design rules were in the Classic Games book as a part of Stryker (I think...). Man, I hope so... I bought that book to have those rules. lol.

(Traveller does have a vehicle design set, it's called Striker and it's on the CD).
Hope that helps.

T5 sounds much more to be what I am looking for to add to my CT set. When is it due in book form?

There are no dates for completion of even the pdf version. I'd guess maybe next year if you're lucky.

 

[far-trader]

...The main failing of CT is the characters have NO DEPTH compared to more modern systems released later. CT characters are a bare bones string of numbers only.

I can see why your CT set is in mint condition Never played it have you

Seriously, my CT characters have had more depth and soul than any character in any other RPG I've played (and that's several). The very nature of char gen and openness of the system engenders creativity in a way no point buy system or the like can ever come close to creating.

Disads and quirks are just (in my experience) licenses to munchikinize, a gimme for more Advantages and nothing else. Not routes to true role playing character development or to create anything like real people. Puh-lease

So far I've seen little to suggest MPT is the salvation of Traveller and superior in any way. Fresh to some I suppose. And with a few new tricks that may be worth the price of admission. But enough to balance the mistakes? Not seeing it yet.

Your light-years may vary but from where I'm playing you couldn't have it any wronger

 

[Jeffr0]

"I personally find GURPS Traveller to be fairly unplayable as a system."

:frankie:

NICE - I've been running GURPS Traveller for 11 years now and really like it.

First of all, its GURPS and it does what it was created to do: ALLOW you to play GURPS in the Traveller Universe....[/url]

Well I didn't say that *you* find it unplayable.

What if you don't want to play GURPS, but instead would rather play Traveller?

What if you want to run pick-up rpg sessions with casual non-gamer types? The simplicity of CT is a major plus there. And people start role-playing even in the char-gen procedure-- they consider their life options and risk death... and many implied setting details are communicated without a lot of GM lecturing.

GURPS might be a better system, but CT is the better game-- and it comes with a wide variety of modular plug-ins (Snap Shot, Striker, High Guard, FFW) that are all playable by themselves and provide a wide variety of things to do with a wide variety of gamer-types.

 

[spinwardpirate]

As many feel that GURPS gets in the way of true roleplaying by having too many numbers, and too many limits on how you play your character.

Of course, it's all a matter of personal opinion. My wife is running her first ever campaign, using GURPS, and she is running it pretty rules light. The trick, and we all know this, is to never let the rules, any rules, get in the way of fun.

 

[spinwardpirate]

What if you want to run pick-up rpg sessions with casual non-gamer types? The simplicity of CT is a major plus there.

Agreed. As I've mentioned before, in an hour I can crank out six CT characters. I can almost say the same for MGT. But GT... I'd be lucky if I could make one character in an hour. I would've been happier if GT had included a complete random character generation system.

As for actual play... well... hey, I see it like this. While playing GURPS the other evening, my wife paused and asked me for a rules interpretation on one of her npcs. My answer was roll 3d6, and if you roll low enough, don't worry about it. So she did, and we moved along without stopping and opening up a book and trying to find a rule. There's always time after the game to go back and fact check rules.

 

[Jeffr0]

So she did, and we moved along without stopping and opening up a book and trying to find a rule. There's always time after the game to go back and fact check rules.

Right. That is the wargamer way.

My problem is I want to understand GURPS the same way I understand stuff like CAR WARS and High Guard-- and have that same sense of mastery.

Not going to happen, more than likely-- though I admire the mad game design skills of Dr. Kromm and his pals.

 

[spinwardpirate]

Hey, thanks for the compliment (being an old timey wargamer and all).

I was at that point of understanding with 3e. Then they went and changed everything (or, at least lots of stuff). With 4e, I'm erring on the side of keep it simple. And right now, if I had to run something, I have no idea what I'd run. I'll I know is it would require using 15mm miniatures!

 

[robject]

T5 sounds much more to be what I am looking for to add to my CT set. When is it due in book form?

I have almost every book in the CT set now. I am missing only Aliens 2, JTAS 13-24, and JTAS 25-36. I got the mother of all bargains on ebay- 3 CT books for $40 including shipping! lol The reprints are just such a great bargain! I want 101 Robots, but it is selling for over $100. Yikes!

Yeah. I suggest buying the CD-ROMs instead and printing the PDFs off at Kinko's -- to save money, and you may not refer to them often enough to feel the agony of using a PDF

And, I'll change my mind here a bit -- CT is still the resource I go to when I want to know about aliens or run an adventure, and probably always will be a resource.

 

[Supplement Four]

I can see why your CT set is in mint condition Never played it have you

I was wondering that myself.

Seriously, my CT characters have had more depth and soul than any character in any other RPG I've played (and that's several).

I'm a bit of an amateur writer, and when I write stories--not necessarily scifi stories--I'll sometimes use CT chargen to flesh out a character I'm writing about if I don't already have a good take on him.

I'm using CT chargen to flesh out characters for non-scifi short stories...

No depth? That's laughable.

 

[dean]

"It always cracks me up to see statements like this made about CT and MGT."

In case you are wondering - I've got a complete set of Classic Traveller rules in mint condition.

The main failing of CT is the characters have NO DEPTH compared to more modern systems released later. CT characters are a bare bones string of numbers only.

GURPS allows for TRUE role-playing characters, with advantages, disadvantages and quirks - just like REAL people.

Mongoose Traveller adds desperately needed detail to the CT bare bones string of numbers.

If you need rules to add depth to your roleplaying experience, then you're not roleplaying.

My players have enough quirks inherent to themselves to make our sessions continually interesting.

And, as a GM, I don't like the fact that GURPS encourages players to take disadvantages that you constantly have to remind them to play - and I don't like having to penalize them if they don't (more work for me, and I have enough, thanks).

More Rules <> More Fun BUT More Rules == More Work.

IMO. YMMV.

 

[dean]

The trick, and we all know this, is to never let the rules, any rules, get in the way of fun.

I enthusiastically endorse this paradigm!

 

[Jeffr0]

And, I'll change my mind here a bit -- CT is still the resource I go to when I want to know about aliens or run an adventure, and probably always will be a resource.

That's one thing that sorta blows me away about CT. It was never portrayed as a kludgey glommed together mess. The rules are pretty much what the authors intended as they stand. They printed them practically unchanged from the very beginning several times-- LBB's 1-3, Starter Traveller, The Traveller Book. (MegaTraveller was not the same sort of jump as OD&D to AD&D was... and T4 is basically Marc saying... "I pretty much meant what I said the first time.")

Then you see in the Alien Modules where they take each of the rules segments-- High Guard ship design, Basic and Advanced char gen, Patron and Random encounter tables, equipment from Mercenary, range band combat from Book 1, the classic world gen sequence-- they take all of that and they tweak those rules slightly for each separate Alien.

Amazing.

Among the designers... there just is absolutely no shame or self-consciousness about those rules-- the actual hard game rules-- from the original LBB's.