CT Only: Converting kg to Traveller tons
- Thread starter snrdg082102
- Start date
Nominally, 14.09 to 14.11kl per tonne as a liquid.
As a gas, about 11845 kl per tonne.
But the gas-volume would depend on temperature and pressure considerations. Is the volume you listed above for STP conditions?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
That is the mass-to-volume relationship for fuel, while even CT77 blithely assumes you can fill the cargo bay with iron ore. Do you have a page cite?
Edit: Are you referring to the shotgun example on B3:43? It would be unwise to extend that to all cargo. Shotguns are merely a marginal example, in that 200 shotguns in retail packaging are still going take up enough of a dton that they can be justified. By comparison, that ton of iron ore is one partially-full 55-gallon drum worth.
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At vaporization point
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
Per Tech Manual 9-1710C, CHASSIS AND BODY FOR HALF-TRACK VEHICLES SEPTEMBER 11, 1942,
Why would commercial ATV be made with 1/4 inch or 6.35mm armor plating? And I would assume that a G-Carrier would have more than that.
A 55-gallon, I am assuming US gallon, has a volume of 7.35 cubic feet. Taconite pellets, the most commonly used iron ore in the US currently, weigh 135 pounds per cubic foot. Therefore, a 55-gallon drum would hold approximately 992.25 pounds of taconite pellets, so two drums would hold a fraction under one short ton of iron ore, 1994.5 pounds or so. A metric ton of ore would require another 12 gallons. Looking at it another way, a metric ton of taconite pellets will take up a volume of 16.34 cubic feet. A Traveller dTon of 13.5 cubic meters will hold 29.13 tons of taconite pellets.
I thought that I had shipping data for shotguns readily available, but not finding it. Would shipping data on M1 Garand rifles work or not?
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Taconite in pellet form, what Traveller's trade system refers to as "Processed Ore", has a pretty low density compared to raw iron ore. Magnetite is slightly more than five times the density of water, so a best (worst?) case scenario is that one displacement ton will hold nearly 70 metric tons of raw iron ore. One ton worth is very close to one 55-gallon drum in size.
Pedantry behind us, my point remains. If cargo is assumed to always be 1000kg per displacement ton, that means we are using a 1.5m x 3m section of floor (that's about 5ft x 10ft) to carry one 55 gallon drum-sized chunk of raw iron ore, two to three drums of Taconite, a suitcase of Osmium, four large-ish fish tanks worth of water, or any number of other silly equivalents. You could stage large dinner parties in a hold "full" of iron ore, since the carefully spaced drums make good bases for tables.
the atv is rated for long duration vacuum. it has the equivalent of 1.5cm of steel. and doesn't actually meet the rules standard for safe on vacuum worlds.
the standard bolt actoon rifle is a poorly translated m1
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Morning all,
The discussion has drifted from my question on how to figure out how many cubic meters a 50 kg standard missile, 50 kg canister of sand, and/or 10g unpowered grav belt takes up in Traveller.
The debate that timerover51 has going is not answering my question and as has been pointed on more than one of my posts has drifted off the original topic and I'm guessing needs to have its own topic.
Can someone please provide me with the simple way to convert the kilograms into an equivalent or reasonably accurate guess the community will accept tons of liquid hydrogen at either 13.5 m^3 or 14 m^3?
The discussion has drifted from my question on how to figure out how many cubic meters a 50 kg standard missile, 50 kg canister of sand, and/or 10g unpowered grav belt takes up in Traveller.
The debate that timerover51 has going is not answering my question and as has been pointed on more than one of my posts has drifted off the original topic and I'm guessing needs to have its own topic.
Can someone please provide me with the simple way to convert the kilograms into an equivalent or reasonably accurate guess the community will accept tons of liquid hydrogen at either 13.5 m^3 or 14 m^3?
I'm affraid it's not easy, as it depends on many factors. Aside from density (an obvious factor), shape will determine how much "wasted" volume it needs, and storage also needs some for access to them.
Taking other Traveller (mostly MT, as is the one I'm the most familiar) versions as a guide:
For missiles: it goes from the 0.1 kl per missile (140/dton) in MT to the 12 missiles dton in MgT. As you see, quite diferent numbers.
For Sandcaster ammo, the only version I know to give it is MgT, where you can store 20 barrels in a dton.
As for cargo, it may vary a lot depending on what you put in your hold. To calculate loaded mass in MT, it was assumed 1 tm per kl of hold (so, using 14 m3 dtons, 14 tm/dton).
As for vehicle mass, it's too variable due to many factors (armor, pourpose, cargo, etc...). IIRC, in MT, when designing a gravitic vehicle it was advised to use about 2 tons of thrust per dton in civilian vehicles (no armor nor weaponry, little cargo, mostly for people transport), and a mínimum of 10 tons of trust per dton for military vehicles.
As for spaceships/starships, again in MT, the range for standard designs (those in Imperial Enciclopedia) goes from about 1.9 tm/dton of a fighter (18.7 tm, 10 dton) to nearly 30 for the SDB (11150 tm, 400 dton, for 27.875 tm/dton). See that the fighter is not armored (aside the armor needed to be spaceworthy) and has no cargo, while the SDB is heavily armored.
Travellerspud
SOC-12
Striker uses;
weight (kg) divided by 500 to get cubic meters for electronics
weight (kg) divided by 1000 to get cubic meters for weapons
weight (kg) divided by 8000 to get cubic meters for steel armor
weight (kg) divided by 15,000 to get cubic meters for bonded super-dense armor
tac missles use weight/1000, so 50/1000 = .05 cubic meters
this does not include packaging...I recommend doubling volume (keeping weight the same) for packaged products.
by comparison, a real-world pallet of laser-printers today weighs ~750 Kg for 3 meters cubed, or about 1/5 dTon, making a full dTon 3375 Kg (vs the calculated 6750kg for unpackaged...or using my doubling rule, 3375Kg of packaged printers)
weight (kg) divided by 500 to get cubic meters for electronics
weight (kg) divided by 1000 to get cubic meters for weapons
weight (kg) divided by 8000 to get cubic meters for steel armor
weight (kg) divided by 15,000 to get cubic meters for bonded super-dense armor
tac missles use weight/1000, so 50/1000 = .05 cubic meters
this does not include packaging...I recommend doubling volume (keeping weight the same) for packaged products.
by comparison, a real-world pallet of laser-printers today weighs ~750 Kg for 3 meters cubed, or about 1/5 dTon, making a full dTon 3375 Kg (vs the calculated 6750kg for unpackaged...or using my doubling rule, 3375Kg of packaged printers)
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
At least vehicles and spacecraft already have defined volumes in many cases. In CT, our first exposure to vehicles comes through their stowage space onboard a ship.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Morning McPerth
Thank you, unfortunately MT and MgT do have differences from CT. The reason I'm asking is the system defense boat in Supplement 7 has two missile magazines. Each magazine appears to take up 16 tons of the ships hull.
The system defense boat has two triple missile turrets with nine missiles in ready position in each turret. Following the tradition of David Drake's Daniel Leary of the RCN, I would put one on the launch rail or in the launch tube and then reload the turret's magazine.
During combat was the turret missiles have been expended someone has to reload the turrets.
How many 50 kg missile, using CT rules, reloads would the 16 ton magazine hold with and without using SS3?
Thank you, unfortunately MT and MgT do have differences from CT. The reason I'm asking is the system defense boat in Supplement 7 has two missile magazines. Each magazine appears to take up 16 tons of the ships hull.
The system defense boat has two triple missile turrets with nine missiles in ready position in each turret. Following the tradition of David Drake's Daniel Leary of the RCN, I would put one on the launch rail or in the launch tube and then reload the turret's magazine.
During combat was the turret missiles have been expended someone has to reload the turrets.
How many 50 kg missile, using CT rules, reloads would the 16 ton magazine hold with and without using SS3?
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snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Howdy Travellerspud,
Thank you for the suggestion.
Unfortunately, I've tried to use Striker's missile design sequence to match up with CT Book 2's missile description. I never came close to a match in kg and/or price. Of course I may have made errors using the Striker missile design sequence which would mean I could be wrong.
Striker does attempt to fit CT High Guard into the rules, unfortunately the fit is a bit lumpy but sort of workable in Striker.
I used the CT Book 2 missile weight of 50 kg didivied by 1,000 kg of liquid hydrogen and came up with the same result as you did for the Striker tactical missile.
Thank you for the suggestion.
Unfortunately, I've tried to use Striker's missile design sequence to match up with CT Book 2's missile description. I never came close to a match in kg and/or price. Of course I may have made errors using the Striker missile design sequence which would mean I could be wrong.
Striker does attempt to fit CT High Guard into the rules, unfortunately the fit is a bit lumpy but sort of workable in Striker.
I used the CT Book 2 missile weight of 50 kg didivied by 1,000 kg of liquid hydrogen and came up with the same result as you did for the Striker tactical missile.
you cannot design ct space missiles with striker. you rate their effects when used on vehicles as if they erre striker 15cm warheads, but they aren't striker missiles. different designers, different source data being mangled.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Hello aramis,
Well, at the time Striker was what I had to work with, unfortunately I haven't been able to get SS3 with errata to work out either. IIRC I was able to get close using SS3 Revised, unfortunately all I have left of the project I did in 2013 is the bits and pieces I sent to Donald McKinney for review. I'm hoping that in 2016 I can start purchasing the CD-ROMs.
you cannot design ct space missiles with striker. you rate their effects when used on vehicles as if they erre striker 15cm warheads, but they aren't striker missiles. different designers, different source data being mangled.
Well, at the time Striker was what I had to work with, unfortunately I haven't been able to get SS3 with errata to work out either. IIRC I was able to get close using SS3 Revised, unfortunately all I have left of the project I did in 2013 is the bits and pieces I sent to Donald McKinney for review. I'm hoping that in 2016 I can start purchasing the CD-ROMs.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Good Evening all,
I have just been warned that a comment in a post I made could be considered by the moderator as a possible insult and/or a possible attack on another forum member.
My apologies for any inappropriate comments I may have made.
I have agreed to the moderator's request and hopefully the post will reappear at the individual's convenience.
I have just been warned that a comment in a post I made could be considered by the moderator as a possible insult and/or a possible attack on another forum member.
My apologies for any inappropriate comments I may have made.
I have agreed to the moderator's request and hopefully the post will reappear at the individual's convenience.
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