Creatures

[Spartan159]

I am working on an expanded creature size chart for MgT1e rules to allow for critters from Hummingbirds to Argentinosaurus. Please take a look and see what you think. On this table, movement rate is tentatively linked to Dex + End, and Hits = End score. Beast Power is the Strength multiplier from Supplement 5-6 The Vehicle Handbook page 6

Size Table
2d6 		Weight (kg) 	Strength 	Dexterity 	Endurance	Beast Power	
-8		0.1		1		6d6		1
-7		0.2		1		5d6		1
-6		0.3		1		4d6		1
-5		0.4		1		3d6		1
-4		0.5		1		3d6		1
-3		0.7		1		3d6		1
-2		0.7		1		2d6		1
-1		0.8		1d2		2d6		1d2
0		0.9		1d2		2d6		1d2
1		 1 		1d3		1d6 		1d3
2 		3 		1d3 		1d6 		1d3
3 		6 		1d6 		2d6 		1d6
4 		12 		1d6 		2d6 		1d6
5 		25 		2d6 		3d6 		2d6
6 		50 		2d6 		4d6 		2d6
7 		100 		3d6 		3d6 		3d6
8 		200 		3d6 		3d6 		3d6
9 		400 		4d6 		2d6 		4d6		x2
10 		800 		4d6 		2d6 		4d6		x2
11 		1,600 		5d6 		2d6 		5d6		x3
12 		3,200 		6d6 		1d6 		6d6		x3
13 		5,000 		7d6 		1d6 		7d6		x4
14 		8,000 		8d6 		1d3 		8d9		x4
15		10,000 		9d6 		1d3		9d6		x5
16		12,000		10d6		1d2		10d6		x5
17		16,000		11d6		1d2		11d6		x6
18		20,000		12d6		1		12d6		x6
19		40,000		13d6		1		13d6		x7
20		60,000		14d6		1		14d6		x7
21		80,000		15d6		1		15d6		x8
22		100,000		16d6		1		16d6		x8

 

[kilemall]

I like the declining Dex against size part. Not sure I buy the Endurance increase though. I also don't see a speed factor.

 

[Spartan159]

I like the declining Dex against size part. Not sure I buy the Endurance increase though. I also don't see a speed factor.

Right now it's just an extension of the original chart on page 21 of supplement 11 with smaller critters getting a dexterity raise to represent some form of speed or agility.

I don't really have a speed factor as yet as I don't know how I want to do it. Should it be directly tied to Dexterity?

As far endurance goes what bothers you, should the rate of increase taper off? Maybe tie hits directly to mass instead of endurance as MgT1e seems to do?

Then there is also the To hit vs Size matter which I have yet to address.

 

[Spartan159]

Does this rule of thumb make sense?

Animal hits = Mass in kg /20 round up or End score, whichever is less.

 

[steventirey1985]

Does this rule of thumb make sense?

Animal hits = Mass in kg /20 round up or End score, whichever is less.

Does it make sense a human-sized and weight creature would only have 4-5 hits, while the human itself would require 21 points of damage on average to kill? In 1e MgT, a creatures Hits are based on Strength, Dexterity, and Endurance scores.

2e MgT, which just has a generic Hits number for creatures, gives a human-sized creature 14-28 Hits.

 

[Spartan159]

Does it make sense a human-sized and weight creature would only have 4-5 hits, while the human itself would require 21 points of damage on average to kill? In 1e MgT, a creatures Hits are based on Strength, Dexterity, and Endurance scores.

2e MgT, which just has a generic Hits number for creatures, gives a human-sized creature 14-28 Hits.

Aye, the 1e stats can add up to some impressive critters while the 2e stats seem arbitrary to me. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Whipsnade]

Great stuff, Spartan. When you're done ironing out all the bugs (no pun intended!) please pop a copy into the site's file library so your helpful work won't be lost.

Thanks again!

 

[Spartan159]

What I've got so far slightly cleaned up, comments and nit-picking encouraged.


Size Table
2d6 To Hit Weight Strength Dexterity Endurance Beast Power
-8 -4 0.1 kg 1 6d6 1
-7 -4 0.2 kg 1 5d6 1
-6 -4 0.3 kg 1 4d6 1
-5 -4 0.4 kg 1 3d6 1
-4 -4 0.5 kg 1 3d6 1
-3 -4 0.6 kg 1 3d6 1
-2 -4 0.7 kg 1 2d6 1
-1 -4 0.8 kg 1d2 2d6 1d2
0 -4 0.9 kg 1d2 2d6 1d2
1 -3 1 kg 1d3 1d6 1d3
2 -3 3 kg 1d3 1d6 1d3
3 -2 6 kg 1d6 2d6 1d6
4 -2 12 kg 1d6 2d6 1d6
5 -1 25 kg 2d6 3d6 2d6
6 -1 50 kg 2d6 4d6 2d6
7 0 100 kg 3d6 3d6 3d6
8 0 200 kg 3d6 3d6 3d6 x2 Big Cats (Lion, Tiger)
9 +1 400 kg 4d6 2d6 4d6 x2 Riding Horse
10 +1 800 kg 4d6 2d6 4d6 x3 Draft Horse, Kodiak
11 +2 1.6 t 5d6 2d6 5d6 x3 Miniphant
12 +3 3.2 t 6d6 1d6 6d6 x4 Asian Elephant
13 +4 5 t 7d6 1d6 7d6 x4 African Elephant
14 +5 8 t 8d6 1d3 8d9 x5 Tyrannosaurus
15 +6 10 t 9d6 1d3 9d6 x5 Whale Shark
16 +6 12 t 10d6 1d2 10d6 x6
17 +6 16 t 11d6 1d2 11d6 x6 Paraceratherium
18 +6 20 t 12d6 1 12d6 x7 Apatosaurus
19 +6 40 t 13d6 1 13d6 x7 Megalodon
20 +6 60 t 14d6 1 14d6 x8
21 +6 80 t 15d6 1 15d6 x8
22 +6 100 t 16d6 1 16d6 x9 Argentinosaurus

For comparison:
Human: 60 - 80kg 1.8m Speed 6m (based on what?)
Aslan: 100kg 2.0m
Vargr: 60kg 1.6m
Droyne: 25 - 50kg 1.0 - 2.0m
Hiver: 150kg 1.5m
K'kree: 550kg 2.4m
Blue Whale: 173t ~30m


Hits = ?
Movement Speed in Meters per Minor Action?

 

[Whipsnade]

Any chart with a Megalodon is a good one!

 

[Spartan159]

Any chart with a Megalodon is a good one!

While swimming, your party has encountered... a Megalodon! Roll for surprise and initiative! :devil: :devil:

P.S. This is where I personally have a heart to heart with Jesus and run, not walk on water...

 

[Whipsnade]

While swimming, your party has encountered... a Megalodon! Roll for surprise and initiative!

We're going to need a bigger boat...

P.S. This is where I personally have a heart to heart with Jesus and run, not walk on water...

The force of the feces being expelled from my body would jet propel me safely to the shore.

 

[Timerover51]

I guess my approach to Creatures is to determine the appropriate biome to check, then get out my animal atlases and also dinosaur and extinct mammals reference books, and figure out what looks right. I also have a book on possible alien life that looks at the question of significantly lower and higher gravity fields.

Right now, I am working on coming up with some ideas for creatures mentioned in the various H. Beam Piper books. Specifically, Colada Marsh Pigs, Tizona giraffe-birds (which probably are NOT herbivores), and Irminsul Flame Birds (which produce marketable plumes). He does come up with some interesting critters. The following comes from 4-Day Planet.

Murell, still in a sort of trance, obeyed. As he did I looked past his right shin and saw what Bish had been shooting at. It was an irregular gray oval, about sixteen inches by four at its widest and tapering up in front to a cone about six inches high, into which a rodlike member, darker gray, was slowly collapsing and dribbling oily yellow stuff. The bullet had gone clear through and made a mess of dirty gray and black and green body fluids on the concrete.[36]

It was what we call a tread-snail, because it moves on a double row of pads like stumpy feet and leaves a trail like a tractor. The fishpole-aerial thing it had erected out of its head was its stinger, and the yellow stuff was venom. A tenth of a milligram of it in your blood and it's "Get the Gate open, St. Peter; here I come.

 

[kilemall]

So this is MgT1E with the END damage?

Problematic for the bigger animals- I'd almost stick with a vehicle approach instead.

 

[Spartan159]

Could you detail what you dislike more? Is it simply the direct correlation between End and Size? CT's Animal Hits are pretty much the same if not lower at the high end, given the scale difference, Check Bk 3 pg 33 or TTB pg 94. It looks like the hits were ported over to MgT1e's End directly.

 

[flykiller]

Any chart with a Megalodon is a good one!

(laugh)

that's not really pc-sized, is it? more of a location than an encounter ....

 

[kilemall]

Could you detail what you dislike more? Is it simply the direct correlation between End and Size? CT's Animal Hits are pretty much the same if not lower at the high end, given the scale difference, Check Bk 3 pg 33 or TTB pg 94. It looks like the hits were ported over to MgT1e's End directly.

Don't like it because it breaks functionality of using character stats for anything but 'hit points'.

To me END covers metabolic rate, immunity, energy processing, etc., things which would be interesting to differentiate animals by.

Might as well stick with LBB3 conventions otherwise.

 

[Spartan159]

Back on track, I'm at the scratching my head part. Borrowed size damage modifier from CT, some class, diet, behavior, and move types from T5. More examples. Looking at a raw attempt at a random movement speed.


Size Table Mk 3
Dam. Beast Some
2d6 To Hit Weight Str. Dex. End. Mod Power Examples
-8 -4 0.1 kg 1 6d6 1 -2d6 Hampster, smaller critters.
-7 -4 0.2 kg 1 5d6 1 -2d6
-6 -4 0.3 kg 1 4d6 1 -2d6 Brown Rat
-5 -4 0.4 kg 1 3d6 1 -2d6
-4 -4 0.5 kg 1 3d6 1 -2d6 Pigeon
-3 -4 0.6 kg 1 3d6 1 -2d6
-2 -4 0.7 kg 1 2d6 1 -2d6 Wood Duck
-1 -4 0.8 kg 1d2 2d6 1d2 -2d6
0 -4 0.9 kg 1d2 2d6 1d2 -2d6
1 -3 1 kg 1d3 1d6 1d3 -2d6 Osprey, Mink
2 -3 3 kg 1d3 1d6 1d3 -2d6 House Cat, Raccoon
3 -2 6 kg 1d6 2d6 1d6 -1d6 Canada Goose
4 -2 12 kg 1d6 2d6 1d6 Badger
5 -1 25 kg 2d6 3d6 2d6 Sea Otter
6 -1 50 kg 2d6 4d6 2d6 Small Goat
7 0 100 kg 3d6 3d6 3d6 Harbour Seal
8 0 200 kg 3d6 3d6 3d6 x2 Big Cats (Lion, Tiger, etc.)
9 +1 400 kg 4d6 2d6 4d6 x2 Riding Horse
10 +1 800 kg 4d6 2d6 4d6 x3 Draft Horse, Kodiak
11 +2 1.6 t 5d6 2d6 5d6 x3 Miniphant, Walrus
12 +3 3.2 t 6d6 1d6 6d6 x4 Asian Elephant
13 +4 5 t 7d6 1d6 7d6 x4 African Elephant
14 +5 8 t 8d6 1d3 8d9 x5 Tyrannosaurus
15 +6 10 t 9d6 1d3 9d6 x5 Whale Shark
16 +6 12 t 10d6 1d2 10d6 x6
17 +6 16 t 11d6 1d2 11d6 x6 Paraceratherium
18 +6 20 t 12d6 1 12d6 x7 Apatosaurus
19 +6 40 t 13d6 1 13d6 x7 Megalodon
20 +6 60 t 14d6 1 14d6 x8
21 +6 80 t 15d6 1 15d6 x8
22 +6 100 t 16d6 1 16d6 x9 Argentinosaurus

Damage Modifier from CT TTB. Minimum Damage = 1
Damage Modifier for large creature mass is provided for by Strength.

Human: 60 - 80kg 1.8m Speed 6m
Aslan: 100kg 2.0m
Vargr: 60kg 1.6m
Droyne: 25 - 50kg 1.0 - 2.0m
Hiver: 150kg 1.5m
K'kree: 550kg 2.4m
Blue Whale: 105t -173t up to 30m
General Sherman, Redwood Tree: Producer, Basker, Static. 2,450,000t 83.82m tall, 30.5m diameter
WAG warning: ? Base Movement Speed: 3d6-3 x 2m (per minor action) ?
Should any of these be Movement Speed Modifiers?
Class: Behavior: Move Type:
Amphibians Carrion-eater Walker
Aquatics Chaser Flyer
Avians Eater Swimmer
Fungals Filter Burrower
Insects Gatherer Drifter - speed = wind or current speed
Mammals Grazer Static
Reptiles Hijacker Multiple
Plant Hunter
Hunter/Gatherer
Diet: Intermittent
Carnivore Intimidator
Herbivore Killer
Omnivore Pouncer
Scavenger Reducer
Producer Trapper
Siren
Collectors
Baskers

If you don't think something is right, speak up please.

 

[Spartan159]

Don't like it because it breaks functionality of using character stats for anything but 'hit points'.

To me END covers metabolic rate, immunity, energy processing, etc., things which would be interesting to differentiate animals by.

Might as well stick with LBB3 conventions otherwise.

If I'm not mistaken MgT took the hits from LBB3 and converted them straight to End. If this is breaking your belief system I'm all for doing something different, I'm not to real comfortable with the nature of the End. column either.

Let me try this question: What range do you think Endurance should be limited to, and how should I convert Mass to Hits in lieu of using Str+Dex+End, which also discomforts me?

 

[kilemall]

If I'm not mistaken MgT took the hits from LBB3 and converted them straight to End. If this is breaking your belief system I'm all for doing something different, I'm not to real comfortable with the nature of the End. column either.

Let me try this question: What range do you think Endurance should be limited to, and how should I convert Mass to Hits in lieu of using Str+Dex+End, which also discomforts me?

Well, it's not a matter of breaking my belief system, as it is breaking the play utility of the stats.

There just isn't any END roll against disease or energy left that means anything when the animal has that stat at 30.

I would prefer to see it in the 1-15 range just like characters, and can evoke either a sloth or a leopard re: activity, endurance, or immunity.

Do damage against strength instead of endurance, animal doesn't go unconscious until STR is zero.

I would think you would derive speed from DEX, with some multiplier for flyers or marine life.

 

[Spartan159]

I have no problem linking Hits to Str.

I do note that CT K'kree had 25 max stat for both Str and End.

Linking Speed to Dex looks interesting at first, but ends up with anomalies.

I'll come back to this after I've had a chance to think on it some.