CT 2nd Careers

[Supplement Four]

I've become convinced that jumping careers, after failing a survival or re-enlistment throw, should rarely happen with CT characters.

But "rarely" is the operative word.

It can happen in real life, and CT chargen is basically just a type of short-hand roleplaying through a character's history.

Doesn't it make sense that an 18 year-old could join the Imperial Marines, do a 4 year term, muster out, then go into the work-world as a Bureaucrat for another 8 years before the character is played?

Age 18-22, Imperial Marine.
Age 23-30, Bureaucrat (middle management for Ling Standard Products).

Doesn't that make sense?




On the other hand, we've got to guard against skill bloat that will disrupt the balance of a CT game and its 2D6 system. Characters with very high skill levels are very rare in CT, and we need to preserve that. If somebody gets a Skill-4 in something, that should be cause for the other players to look at him with respect.




My thought, in merging the two worlds, is to have it possible that CT characters can be "career switchers" without it being probable.

Here's how I propose to implement this concept during CT chargen (but I'm open to critism, advice, and other ways of handling this).




First off, keep an eye on the character's Experience Limit. That's the rule that says a character's total skill levels can't exceed his INT + EDU.

If a character finishes a career and has reached his limit, then he is not elligible to attempt for another career.




Those that haven't reached their Experience Limit are welcome to try to elistment in other careers, but there are some limitations (and it is unlikely that a career switch will happen) that must be placed on the second career enlistment.

(1) Use common sense. It doesn't make sense that a 38 year old will be accepted, or even drafted, into the armed forces (just so the player can boost his character's combat skills). Players who want to look at the armed forces should do so early on in their careers because it makes much more sense that a character will be in the armed forces when he is young and then gravitate into being a diplomat later in life than the other way around.

(2) The character cannot have reached his Experience Limit. Otherwise, attaining new skills in the new career is moot.

(3) Roll 4D for SOC or less. This is the check needed to be a career-switcher. This type of check will ensure that most people have a very low chance of success in switching careers (starting the game IS their career switch), but it's not impossible--just very, very unlikely. Also, this check will give the "more upwardly mobile" and "connected" people of the higher social ranks decent chance at making the career switch. See below for actual percentage chance based on SOC.

(4) And, even if a career switch is permissable, enlistment and re-enlistment throws should be made with a -1 DM penalty per previous career the character has lived. Thus, if a character is in the Imperial Army for 8 years and is elligible to switch careers, his next enlistment roll will be made with a -1 DM.




</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">SOC %
--- ---
1 0
2 0
3 0
4 0.01
5 0.4
6 1
7 3
8 5
9 10
10 16
11 24
12 34
13 44
14 56
15 66</pre>[/QUOTE]This way, if you've got a prominent SOC, and you haven't hit your experience limit, there's a shot you can change careers before the character is put into play. But, if you're a normal Joe at SOC 7, you've only got a 3% shot at changing careers pre-game, even if you're no where near your Experience Limit.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Supplement Four]

I've become convinced that jumping careers, after failing a survival or re-enlistment throw, should rarely happen with CT characters.

But "rarely" is the operative word.

It can happen in real life, and CT chargen is basically just a type of short-hand roleplaying through a character's history.

Doesn't it make sense that an 18 year-old could join the Imperial Marines, do a 4 year term, muster out, then go into the work-world as a Bureaucrat for another 8 years before the character is played?

Age 18-22, Imperial Marine.
Age 23-30, Bureaucrat (middle management for Ling Standard Products).

Doesn't that make sense?




On the other hand, we've got to guard against skill bloat that will disrupt the balance of a CT game and its 2D6 system. Characters with very high skill levels are very rare in CT, and we need to preserve that. If somebody gets a Skill-4 in something, that should be cause for the other players to look at him with respect.




My thought, in merging the two worlds, is to have it possible that CT characters can be "career switchers" without it being probable.

Here's how I propose to implement this concept during CT chargen (but I'm open to critism, advice, and other ways of handling this).




First off, keep an eye on the character's Experience Limit. That's the rule that says a character's total skill levels can't exceed his INT + EDU.

If a character finishes a career and has reached his limit, then he is not elligible to attempt for another career.




Those that haven't reached their Experience Limit are welcome to try to elistment in other careers, but there are some limitations (and it is unlikely that a career switch will happen) that must be placed on the second career enlistment.

(1) Use common sense. It doesn't make sense that a 38 year old will be accepted, or even drafted, into the armed forces (just so the player can boost his character's combat skills). Players who want to look at the armed forces should do so early on in their careers because it makes much more sense that a character will be in the armed forces when he is young and then gravitate into being a diplomat later in life than the other way around.

(2) The character cannot have reached his Experience Limit. Otherwise, attaining new skills in the new career is moot.

(3) Roll 4D for SOC or less. This is the check needed to be a career-switcher. This type of check will ensure that most people have a very low chance of success in switching careers (starting the game IS their career switch), but it's not impossible--just very, very unlikely. Also, this check will give the "more upwardly mobile" and "connected" people of the higher social ranks decent chance at making the career switch. See below for actual percentage chance based on SOC.

(4) And, even if a career switch is permissable, enlistment and re-enlistment throws should be made with a -1 DM penalty per previous career the character has lived. Thus, if a character is in the Imperial Army for 8 years and is elligible to switch careers, his next enlistment roll will be made with a -1 DM.




</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">SOC %
--- ---
1 0
2 0
3 0
4 0.01
5 0.4
6 1
7 3
8 5
9 10
10 16
11 24
12 34
13 44
14 56
15 66</pre>[/QUOTE]This way, if you've got a prominent SOC, and you haven't hit your experience limit, there's a shot you can change careers before the character is put into play. But, if you're a normal Joe at SOC 7, you've only got a 3% shot at changing careers pre-game, even if you're no where near your Experience Limit.

Thoughts on this?

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Hmm ... interesting ... How about ...

1) A character can be drafted only once in their lives, but can try to enlist as many times as they want.

2) DM -1 per term in all previous professions applied to the enlistment roll.

3) Previous military experience allows the character to ignore only one term (in regards to enlistment DM of -1 per term), and only when applying for enlistment in another military branch (Army, Marines, and Navy only).

4) Commissioned military officers and merchant officers transfer between merchant and military branches as officers. Enlisteds transfer as enlisteds.

5) Successfully transferring from one military branch to another causes a reduction in rank by one, to a minimum rank of E1 or O1. This applies when transferring between Merchant and military branches, as well.

6) Others and Scouts may apply for enlistment in a military service as enlisted personel only, and commissioning rolls apply normally.

7) Military members transferring to Other or Scouts lose all commissioned rank, even if they later try to transfer to another military service (See #6).

8) A character can transfer only to a profession that they have not previously held.

9) Characters who leave a profession after one-half term (a "failed" survival roll) may not apply for military enlistement.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Hmm ... interesting ... How about ...

1) A character can be drafted only once in their lives, but can try to enlist as many times as they want.

2) DM -1 per term in all previous professions applied to the enlistment roll.

3) Previous military experience allows the character to ignore only one term (in regards to enlistment DM of -1 per term), and only when applying for enlistment in another military branch (Army, Marines, and Navy only).

4) Commissioned military officers and merchant officers transfer between merchant and military branches as officers. Enlisteds transfer as enlisteds.

5) Successfully transferring from one military branch to another causes a reduction in rank by one, to a minimum rank of E1 or O1. This applies when transferring between Merchant and military branches, as well.

6) Others and Scouts may apply for enlistment in a military service as enlisted personel only, and commissioning rolls apply normally.

7) Military members transferring to Other or Scouts lose all commissioned rank, even if they later try to transfer to another military service (See #6).

8) A character can transfer only to a profession that they have not previously held.

9) Characters who leave a profession after one-half term (a "failed" survival roll) may not apply for military enlistement.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Heretic Keklas Rekobah:
Hmm ... interesting ... How about ...

This sounds very mucy like the rules I used in my current campaign (see doc in my sig), and I can testify that, given the current CHARACTERS in my campaign, this type of thing will most likely lead to characters that are over-skilled.

In short, I think it's too easy for characters to change careers, gaining more skills.

CT works best when the INT+EDU rule, Max Terms Rule, and Survival rule are followed in chargen.

What I was attempting to do is keep the normal CT chargen most of the time, but still have a tincy, wincy chance that a character could break out and have an extended 2nd career background history.

I based the check on SOC for two reasons: (1) It makes sense because higher SOC people will have "connections"; and (2) there are few SOC increases in the CT chargen tables...meaning that SOC 10+ will be very rare (keeping the chance of getting a second career very rare as well).

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by Heretic Keklas Rekobah:
Hmm ... interesting ... How about ...

This sounds very mucy like the rules I used in my current campaign (see doc in my sig), and I can testify that, given the current CHARACTERS in my campaign, this type of thing will most likely lead to characters that are over-skilled.

In short, I think it's too easy for characters to change careers, gaining more skills.

CT works best when the INT+EDU rule, Max Terms Rule, and Survival rule are followed in chargen.

What I was attempting to do is keep the normal CT chargen most of the time, but still have a tincy, wincy chance that a character could break out and have an extended 2nd career background history.

I based the check on SOC for two reasons: (1) It makes sense because higher SOC people will have "connections"; and (2) there are few SOC increases in the CT chargen tables...meaning that SOC 10+ will be very rare (keeping the chance of getting a second career very rare as well).

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Then how about...

Transfer on 2D Enlistment Roll:

DM = SOC minus 10.
DM = -1 per term.
DM = -1 per transfer attempt (whether successful or not).

Or some such formulae, thus keeping more closely to the original chargen procedure, and taking the SOC score into account -- the old KISS principle.

Thus...

DM +1 if SOC is 11, and +1 per SOC above 11.
(+5 DM at SOC 15).
DM -1 if SOC is 9, and -1 per SOC below 9.
(-8 DM at SOC 2).

... and a three-term character would have a -3 DM for time-in-service, and whatever minus DMs accrued for each previous transfer attempt -- the chances for changing careers each term steadily diminishes.

This will also give the more "upwardly mobile" and "connected" people of the higher social ranks (the "titled" social ranks) a decent chance at making the career switch, as well as penalizing members of the lower social classes.

I like the INT+EDU rule, as it is canonical (although seems to be largely ignored).

Max terms ... I don't know ... there seems to be a 'Darwinic' factor inherent to chargen, anyway, even without enforcing the 'mortality' rule. Yeah, your character could serve its ten terms in three different services, but then your character is 58 years old, and suffered at least one failed roll for aging effects.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Then how about...

Transfer on 2D Enlistment Roll:

DM = SOC minus 10.
DM = -1 per term.
DM = -1 per transfer attempt (whether successful or not).

Or some such formulae, thus keeping more closely to the original chargen procedure, and taking the SOC score into account -- the old KISS principle.

Thus...

DM +1 if SOC is 11, and +1 per SOC above 11.
(+5 DM at SOC 15).
DM -1 if SOC is 9, and -1 per SOC below 9.
(-8 DM at SOC 2).

... and a three-term character would have a -3 DM for time-in-service, and whatever minus DMs accrued for each previous transfer attempt -- the chances for changing careers each term steadily diminishes.

This will also give the more "upwardly mobile" and "connected" people of the higher social ranks (the "titled" social ranks) a decent chance at making the career switch, as well as penalizing members of the lower social classes.

I like the INT+EDU rule, as it is canonical (although seems to be largely ignored).

Max terms ... I don't know ... there seems to be a 'Darwinic' factor inherent to chargen, anyway, even without enforcing the 'mortality' rule. Yeah, your character could serve its ten terms in three different services, but then your character is 58 years old, and suffered at least one failed roll for aging effects.

 

[flykiller]

It doesn't make sense that a 38 year old will be accepted, or even drafted, into the armed forces (just so the player can boost his character's combat skills).

a reservist may be activated.

a character may decide to participate in his homeworld's insurrection or revolution.

a police officer may be assigned to a SWAT team.

a scout may find himself suddenly trapped on-world during a local war, or he may be assigned to intel work in a combat zone.

 

[flykiller]

It doesn't make sense that a 38 year old will be accepted, or even drafted, into the armed forces (just so the player can boost his character's combat skills).

a reservist may be activated.

a character may decide to participate in his homeworld's insurrection or revolution.

a police officer may be assigned to a SWAT team.

a scout may find himself suddenly trapped on-world during a local war, or he may be assigned to intel work in a combat zone.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
a reservist may be activated.

a character may decide to participate in his homeworld's insurrection or revolution.

a police officer may be assigned to a SWAT team.

a scout may find himself suddenly trapped on-world during a local war, or he may be assigned to intel work in a combat zone.

All very good points, and covered under my first point above: Use Common Sense.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by flykiller:
a reservist may be activated.

a character may decide to participate in his homeworld's insurrection or revolution.

a police officer may be assigned to a SWAT team.

a scout may find himself suddenly trapped on-world during a local war, or he may be assigned to intel work in a combat zone.

All very good points, and covered under my first point above: Use Common Sense.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
All very good points, and covered under my first point above: Use Common Sense.

The trouble with "Common Sense" is, (1) It ain't so common, (2) One man's "Common Sense" is another man's foolishness, (3) A lot of munchkinism is passed off as "Common Sense," and (4) A lot of handwave or ad hoc rulings are passed off as "Common Sense."

Better to define a system as simply and concisely as possible, than to keep adding conditional parameters that reach beyond common understanding.

 

[Keklas Rekobah]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
All very good points, and covered under my first point above: Use Common Sense.

The trouble with "Common Sense" is, (1) It ain't so common, (2) One man's "Common Sense" is another man's foolishness, (3) A lot of munchkinism is passed off as "Common Sense," and (4) A lot of handwave or ad hoc rulings are passed off as "Common Sense."

Better to define a system as simply and concisely as possible, than to keep adding conditional parameters that reach beyond common understanding.

 

[tbeard1999]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
I've become convinced that jumping careers, after failing a survival or re-enlistment throw, should rarely happen with CT characters.

But "rarely" is the operative word.

Changing careers can provide a number of advantages, most of them reasonable:

1. Allows a young character who fails his enlistment roll to get a second chance. Of course, the same could be accomplished by allowing a character to change ONE reenlistment roll in his life.

2. Allows a broader mix of skills. I don't see a problem with this per se. However, my personal campaign preferences are for characters to have relatively well-defined rolls. So I might not allow career changing for that reason.

3. Allows a character to get the automatic skills of his new career for free. This is the main problem I see with changing careers. However, it's an easy problem to fix -- simply require the character to take the new career's "automatic skills" when he rolls his first skills in his new career. That removes any incentive for collecting free packages of starting skills.

 

[tbeard1999]

Originally posted by Supplement Four:
I've become convinced that jumping careers, after failing a survival or re-enlistment throw, should rarely happen with CT characters.

But "rarely" is the operative word.

Changing careers can provide a number of advantages, most of them reasonable:

1. Allows a young character who fails his enlistment roll to get a second chance. Of course, the same could be accomplished by allowing a character to change ONE reenlistment roll in his life.

2. Allows a broader mix of skills. I don't see a problem with this per se. However, my personal campaign preferences are for characters to have relatively well-defined rolls. So I might not allow career changing for that reason.

3. Allows a character to get the automatic skills of his new career for free. This is the main problem I see with changing careers. However, it's an easy problem to fix -- simply require the character to take the new career's "automatic skills" when he rolls his first skills in his new career. That removes any incentive for collecting free packages of starting skills.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by tbeard1999:
3. Allows a character to get the automatic skills of his new career for free. This is the main problem I see with changing careers. However, it's an easy problem to fix -- simply require the character to take the new career's "automatic skills" when he rolls his first skills in his new career. That removes any incentive for collecting free packages of starting skills.

That's a very good idea and well worth implementing.

I'll definitely consider that.

 

[Supplement Four]

Originally posted by tbeard1999:
3. Allows a character to get the automatic skills of his new career for free. This is the main problem I see with changing careers. However, it's an easy problem to fix -- simply require the character to take the new career's "automatic skills" when he rolls his first skills in his new career. That removes any incentive for collecting free packages of starting skills.

That's a very good idea and well worth implementing.

I'll definitely consider that.

 

[Berg]

Good Thread!

I like Heretic's ideas of having a formula as that fits in with the tables... and don't forget about the Citizens...

 

[Berg]

Good Thread!

I like Heretic's ideas of having a formula as that fits in with the tables... and don't forget about the Citizens...