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CT Apocalypse

Interesting vignette idea...

I'd probably let them get to the next system, then have something go badly wrong and the ship crash. But at least for one or two adventures, the PCs would have a major warship...

Easy enough to do, just put them in a system where they can only skim to refuel. And have the fuel shuttles "missing" (one of those crazed survivors took the last one) so they are forced to skim, suffer bad luck, and have to abandon ship aboard fighters (so they can't take too many toys). Maybe...
 
tbeard1999,

Unless the people at the starport get infected first, the Navy will probably start restricting access on and off planet once they get details of the disease. Interdiction with the hammer down after the first few deaths and details that it's spreading. ImpNav would blow up any ship that tries to leave the planet and break through the interdiction (unless they Jump first, but that's suicide). Communication of the details of the disease by radio/meson to an X-Boat tender that's probably been on patrol in the outer system for about a month - with no physical contact to the planet, if ever (probably resupplies from an outer system outpost and rotates crew every 6 months). Next X-Boat out sends the warning and ImpNav directed quarantine of the X-Boat driver and any ships from that world. Only J-5 and J-6 ships would get past the X-Boat. And ImpNav has ships that fast.

Unless in-system patrols are different from the U.S. Navy, ImpNav patrols in the system might not go near a port for 6 months. Especially if a gas giant is in the system. And wouldn't be allowed in port once the quarantine is in effect. People live in the ships and shore leave isn't often if there's any kind of problems in the region. Stopping to resupply or maintenance is usually the only reason they would stop. And supplies can be launched without a crew (unless your little bug is space resistant).

According to what you wrote, about 10 days to terminal. Unless someone has been infected less than 3 days, they're dead when they come out of JumpSpace (or nutzo). Who sends a Signal GK in JumpSpace? And Ghost Ships scare the bejeezes out of spacers. Salvagers, pirates, or patrols would be the only ones that would go near a ship that's not broadcasting an S.O.S. or such. And warning of a deadly disease like this is broadcast at lightspeed in-system. Once the X-boats get the message out...

I see this being contained quickly. Within less than 12 parsecs. 36 parsecs at maximum. That's if ImpNav doesn't drop the ball and let someone slip through. But that's the only reason I see that it would spread farther.

Space is the great insulator.

If you change the times for the different stages, then the sphere of infection gets bigger. I think changing Stage 1 to 3 or 5 days is your best bet to get it off-planet. After that, tho, you're still looking at an ImpNav interdiction of a bunch of worlds. The virus has to outrun the X-Boat system and the Imperial Navy or stay hidden long enough to do it's damage.

Ebola killed it's first recorded victim about 2 weeks after the onset of symptoms. Once they figure out how your virus is transmitted (contact), that's what they'll quarantine against.
 
...ImpNav would blow up any ship that tries to leave the planet and break through the interdiction (unless they Jump first, but that's suicide).

Not always...

Only J-5 and J-6 ships would get past the X-Boat.

Not always... ;)

Once the X-boats get the message out...

I see this being contained quickly. Within less than 12 parsecs. 36 parsecs at maximum. That's if ImpNav doesn't drop the ball and let someone slip through. But that's the only reason I see that it would spread farther.

Space is the great insulator.

Not always... :)

I'm referring in all the cases above to misjump of course. I'm playing a bit of solo trav at the moment and I just risked a jump at 50d rather than get shot up and killed. I misjumped. Some 13 parsecs in two weeks on a J1 plot and burn. Lucky me there is a star system, even a Class D starport and Scout base so I survived. And had it been the virus scenario above I'd now be well beyond any quarantine shield and news of the disease. And you just know some desperate people (mix in the insane survivors if able) will risk the misjump and survive. Some may even travel further.

Nope, I don't see this being easily contained.
 
I'm thinking, in regards to the player's characters surviving at higher odds than the general populace lends itself well to directing them (if they think about it, if they don't keep dropping hints) that maybe something unique in their collective past could hold a key to their immunity, and possibly a cure...

Maybe it was that chemical attack when they were in the service together and they were all exposed but got a new experimental cure that saved them.

Or...
 
I'm referring in all the cases above to misjump of course. I'm playing a bit of solo trav at the moment and I just risked a jump at 50d rather than get shot up and killed. I misjumped. Some 13 parsecs in two weeks on a J1 plot and burn. Lucky me there is a star system, even a Class D starport and Scout base so I survived. And had it been the virus scenario above I'd now be well beyond any quarantine shield and news of the disease. And you just know some desperate people (mix in the insane survivors if able) will risk the misjump and survive. Some may even travel further.

Nope, I don't see this being easily contained.

That would be some of the 'slipping through' part, I think.

:)
 
tbeard1999,
Unless the people at the starport get infected first, the Navy will probably start restricting access on and off planet once they get details of the disease.

Critical point -- unless you know otherwise, Captain Trips will resemble the ordinary flu until Stage 4.

With 99% communicability, the disease will spread to a significant percentage of the population -- including Travellers (the planet on which the outbreak occurs is a major commercial hub, with dozens of ships departing each day) -- before the first deaths begin to occur. If you assume that each person infects (say) 20 people in a day, a billion people could be infected in <7 days. Assuming half that rate, at the point that people start actually dying (~8 days) as many as 100 million people will be infected. If another day or two goes by, virtually all of the planet's population will be infected.

And some of those infected people will have boarded starships to other systems.

I may need to stretch Stage One out for a few days to give time for infected ships to reach other planets, though. I like the idea of the disease being retarded in jumpspace -- this gives me a fast acting disease planetside, yet allows it to be transmitted from system to system. Let's say that the disease slows to 1/7 its speed in jumpspace.

Remember -- the Navy is unaware that Captain Trips has been unleashed. That information won't be known for several weeks at minimum (it's a top secret project at a remote base). The first real indication of a problem is when the regular weekly X-Boat doesn't arrive from the secret base. Several weeks would then go by as a ship was sent to the base, the situation checked out, then the ship reports back. Then it will take several weeks more for word to be sent to naval bases. IMHO, the sector government would be lucky to have a plan of action extablished within 2-3 months of the disease breaking out. By then, dozens of systems would be infected. For that matter, many of the Naval bases could be infected, along with ships dispatched from them. And God help the government if a few X-Boat pilots got infected, or the crews of a few high jump warships...

If it spreads at an average of 1 jump-2 per 2 weeks, ~25 systems could be infected within 2 months. 56 systems in 3 months. And it will tend to spread to major systems astride major trade routes.

Eventually, the X-Boat network may be able to outrun the disease. But it will be nearly impossible to quarantine (though governments will certainly try, which will make for interesting situations) in the early stages.

Space is the great insulator.

Agreed. But where communication is potentially no faster than the speed of infection, the task will be very difficult. (That's the challenge here -- it needs to be *possible* that the disease could be contained. Yet the disease needs to largely triumph in the end to meet the needs of the campaign.)

You could also assume that a very tiny percent of the population will be carriers only. I.e., they'll transmit the disease, but not suffer from it. Wouldn't take many of those people to spread it a long way indeed...
 
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Critical point -- unless you know otherwise, Captain Trips will resemble the ordinary flu until Stage 4.

But once people start dying from it, word will get out that it's NOT ordinary flu. And that communication would travel at lightspeed over radio waves on a planet. And that's when the quarantine would start. Continental/international trade would stop. As well as tourism. Word of the disease would definitely overtake the movement of the virus. If you have isolated communities on the planet that get word of the virus before the virus gets to them, they may close all access to their community. Amish communities could do this. And be self-sufficient for months.

They did a study (and I'll see if I can dredge my memory to find where I read it) after 9/11 about bioterrorism. Basically the conclusion was that airports, train/bus stations, and truck stops are the biggest spreaders of colds in the country. The next being malls/stores and government buildings. But the planes, trains/buses, and trucks crossed state lines - and all gathered and concentrated in small spots. Those will be your focal points - your starting points for transmission of the virus. And their outer space equivalents. Without those, the virus would stay fairly isolated. Which is probably why Ebola didn't go far. People, especially those outside a city or retired, don't have much bodily contact. Many hands on a public bathroom door or shopping carts. Money would be a big transferer. Once word gets out on how the virus spreads, tho, people will take precautions. Wear latex gloves, filter masks, etc... That'll slow things down, too.

I hope these ideas are helping and not throwing a monkey wrench into your campaign plans.
 
But once people start dying from it, word will get out that it's NOT ordinary flu. And that communication would travel at lightspeed over radio waves on a planet. And that's when the quarantine would start. Continental/international trade would stop. As well as tourism. Word of the disease would definitely overtake the movement of the virus. If you have isolated communities on the planet that get word of the virus before the virus gets to them, they may close all access to their community. Amish communities could do this. And be self-sufficient for months.

The problem is that by the time the authorities discover that this is not just the flu, most of the planet will be infected. Ironically, the more high tech the world, the faster the transmission will be. A grav-mobile civilization will find it impossible to stop the spread IMHO.

Note the implications of the virtually 100% infection rate.

I did a spreadsheet tracking the number of people in each stage (assuming those in stage 4 would not infect any more people). If one infected person in Stage 1-3 infects an average of just 4 people per day (and that all Stage 4 victims go to the hospital), here's the death toll:

Code:
Day	 Infected	Hospital Dead 
0	 5 		 -   
1	 25 		 -   
2	 130 		 -   
3	 675 		 -   
4	 3,505 		 -   
5	 18,201 	1 	 -   
6	 95,212 	702 	 -   
7	 498,602 	4,342 	 -   
8	 2.6m		23,244 	 1 
9	 13.6m 		122,096  702 
10	 71.5m 		639,600  4,342 
11	 374.7m 	3.3m	 23,244 
12	 1,9b 		17.5m 	 122,096 
13	 10,2b 		91.8m	 639,600 
14	 53,8b		480m	 3.3m 
15	 281b 		2.5b	 17.5m 
16	 1.4t 		13.1b 	 91.8m 
17	 7,7t 		69b	 480m

As you can see, by day 8, the hospitals will start filling up with Stage 4 victims. By the end of day 8, 2.6 million people will be infected (and the hospitals will be overrun with flu victims). At this point, a few victims will have died (primarily young children and elderly). The planetary government will know that there is a problem, but they won't yet know that the flu is (a) lethal to virtually all victims within 8 days of infection; and (b) nearly impossible to cure.

Even if the government acts decisively, it seems unlikely to me that they could do anything significant within 24 hours of discerning the problem. At that point (day 9), 13.6 million are infected. If it takes them 48 hours to act, 71.5 million are infected.

Of course, the real infection rate would vary. Most people would probably infect far more than 4 people (you can infect a whole room by just breathing in the room for a minute or so) in the early days. As everyone gets infected, the rate of new infection will decline (far fewer people to infect). But this is a fair approximation, I think. EDIT: I added a variable infection rate -- it started at 10 but dropped as the population of infected people grew (bottoming out at 0.1). This actually made the disease spread faster -- far more people were infected by the time the hospitals filled up with flu victims.

IMHO, there's virtually no chance that the outbreak can be contained, no matter how decisive the government. Though the government will try.

Indeed, the disease is a biological weapon tailor-made to create this condition.

And I think that *if* one infected person reaches a planet, the disease will be unable to be stopped there. Though, again, governments will try, which is desirable from a dramatic point of view.

If the infection rate is 10, then ~2.5 billion people will be infected before the first deaths occur.

FYI, in The Stand, Captain Trips wipes out the US population in about 12 days. And there, the government knew that Captain Trips had been released within six hours of release.

Among the more challenging problems in the novel was the fact that the disease got loose in the research centers, wiping out the people best qualified to find a cure.

They did a study (and I'll see if I can dredge my memory to find where I read it) after 9/11 about bioterrorism. Basically the conclusion was that airports, train/bus stations, and truck stops are the biggest spreaders of colds in the country. The next being malls/stores and government buildings. But the planes, trains/buses, and trucks crossed state lines - and all gathered and concentrated in small spots. Those will be your focal points - your starting points for transmission of the virus. And their outer space equivalents. Without those, the virus would stay fairly isolated. Which is probably why Ebola didn't go far. People, especially those outside a city or retired, don't have much bodily contact. Many hands on a public bathroom door or shopping carts. Money would be a big transferer. Once word gets out on how the virus spreads, tho, people will take precautions. Wear latex gloves, filter masks, etc... That'll slow things down, too.

I hope these ideas are helping and not throwing a monkey wrench into your campaign plans.

Not at all. My players are analytical types, so it's important that the disease's effects be plausible and logical. However, no plague in recent history has the lethality and communicability of Captain Trips, so analogizing to them has its limits.

The biggest concern is how to design the disease so that it kills reasonably quickly (necessary for drama and to prevent countermeasures from being more effective), yet make it able to be plausibly transmitted by starships from system to system.

I like the idea of the disease slowing its progression while a ship is in hyperspace. This could even be an unintended mutation. Maybe it was orginally designed with such a short cycle (8 days from infection to death) to prevent it from being spread beyond a planet. Maybe it was designed to be killed *by* exposure to hyperspace. That would be a logical safeguard. But once it got loose, it mutated. Or some lunatic scientist secretly added the mutation before the disease was released.

That might also explain why early efforts to quarantine might fail. If the interstellar government is expecting a disease that has an 8 day cycle, then they might initially only quarantine ships and people with obvious Stage 3+ signs. They would realize their mistake, but only after dozens more worlds were infected.
 
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I did a spreadsheet tracking the number of people in each stage (assuming those in stage 4 would not infect any more people). If one infected person in Stage 1-3 infects an average of just 4 people per day (and that all Stage 4 victims go to the hospital), here's the death toll:

I'm not enough of a statistician to say for sure, but I think that average is a fallacy. You're talking geometric progression, but as more an more people get infected, many of the people the next lot interact with will already be infected, so the average will drop. You will have pockets of people who won't be visited by someone infected until the alarm has been given and quarantine measures enacted. And due to the lethality of the pathogen, it will burn itself out fast.

Once scientists get hold of samples and start analysing them, they will eventually come up with a cure. There's no amount of human ingenuity that can hold out against even more human ingenuity. That is to say, the built-in mutation that prevents the development of a cure is a belief-breaker for me. If it's built-in, it can be analysed and taken into account. (Just my opinion).


Hans
 
I'm not enough of a statistician to say for sure, but I think that average is a fallacy. You're talking geometric progression, but as more an more people get infected, many of the people the next lot interact with will already be infected, so the average will drop.

If you review my edited post, you'll see that I factored a declining rate of new infections (and increased the initial infection rate). The results were actually *worse*.

You will have pockets of people who won't be visited by someone infected until the alarm has been given and quarantine measures enacted. And due to the lethality of the pathogen, it will burn itself out fast.

Not necessarily. Remember, this is an artificially created virus that is explicitely designed to quickly depopulate a world. Within broad limits, it could easily be far hardier than viruses that evolve normally.

Once scientists get hold of samples and start analysing them, they will eventually come up with a cure. There's no amount of human ingenuity that can hold out against even more human ingenuity. That is to say, the built-in mutation that prevents the development of a cure is a belief-breaker for me. If it's built-in, it can be analysed and taken into account. (Just my opinion).

No one has said that there is no chance of a cure being found. Merely that the shifting antigen quality makes it nearly impossible to create a cure quickly.

Indeed, the search for a cure will probably be a major component of the campaign. However, the question is whether a cure can be found before virtually everyone succumbs to the disease. A rather different question, seems to me.

Of course, this kind of campaign is a serious departure from most RPG campaigns I've ever seen, so it may not be right for everyone.
 
...Remember, this is an artificially created virus that is explicitely designed to quickly depopulate a world. Within broad limits, it could easily be far hardier than viruses that evolve normally.

Speaking of, and a point I touched on briefly earlier, just how hardy do you see it and what primary vectors of communication would it use?

How does it spread on a vacuum world? Only in enclosed spaces?

How about a thin atmo where people wear respirators? Is it hardy enough to spread through the thin atmo and respirators?

And what about the filters on masks for tainted atmo worlds?

What about exotic atmo worlds? Will it spread by contact even while wearing breathing gear?

The thing is the Imperium has a wide range of world conditions, atmo type and pressure, temperature, radiation, etc.

Making a single tailored virus to work well in all those conditions may stretch credulity. More likely it would be tailored to an average T-prime type setting, with varying degrees of survivability (the virus) in conditions beyond those. It may lie dormant in some conditions (vacuum/cold) and be instantly killed in others (certain radiation, atmo taints, corrosives, etc.). Naturally it would really take off in enclosed T-prime settings (ships, domes, and such).
 
Speaking of, and a point I touched on briefly earlier, just how hardy do you see it and what primary vectors of communication would it use?

How does it spread on a vacuum world? Only in enclosed spaces?

Initially, that's my opinion. I don't see it as able to survive any longer than normal viruses in vacuum. Can't make it *too* good...

How about a thin atmo where people wear respirators? Is it hardy enough to spread through the thin atmo and respirators?

I'd say that the answer is "yes" re the thin atmo, and probably yes re the filter masks...IF the filter masks can filter viruses out. Of course, if the people live in pressurized shelters with untainted air, then the disease would transfer normally. Also, note that the virus can also be spread by touch (just like the normal flu), though obviously far harder.

These questions suggest the kinds of worlds that might do better resisting Captain Trips (although they may also be less capable of surviving on their own for the very same reasons).

What about exotic atmo worlds? Will it spread by contact even while wearing breathing gear?

I'd imagine that Captain Trips would be somewhat more resiliant than the normal flu virus, but I doubt it could suvive in exotic atmospheres any more than other viruses.

I have to research exactly how flu can be spread by contact. In general, Captain Trips will act like the flu. It's just that it's far more communicable.

The thing is the Imperium has a wide range of world conditions, atmo type and pressure, temperature, radiation, etc.

Making a single tailored virus to work well in all those conditions may stretch credulity. More likely it would be tailored to an average T-prime type setting, with varying degrees of survivability (the virus) in conditions beyond those. It may lie dormant in some conditions (vacuum/cold) and be instantly killed in others (certain radiation, atmo taints, corrosives, etc.). Naturally it would really take off in enclosed T-prime settings (ships, domes, and such).

I agree. And there's a lot of drama potential in having the environments most hostile to Captain Trips also be the most tenuous if cut off from interstellar trade.
 
Here are some general comments about normal influenza, followed by comments specific to Captain Trips:

Typically, influenza is transmitted from infected mammals through the air by coughs or sneezes, creating aerosols containing the virus, and from infected birds through their droppings. Influenza can also be transmitted by saliva, nasal secretions, feces and blood. Infections also occur through contact with these body fluids or with contaminated surfaces. Flu viruses can remain infectious for about one week at human body temperature, over 30 days at 0 °C (32 °F), and for much longer periods at very low temperatures. Most influenza strains can be inactivated easily by disinfectants and detergents.

Generally, Captain Trips is more robust than normal influenza strains -- and is customized to be especially lethal against populations. So these periods should be quadrupled. I think it would be as vulnerable as normal influenza to disinfectants and detergents.

It is not completely clear why outbreaks of the flu occur seasonally rather than uniformly throughout the year. One possible explanation is that, because people are indoors more often during the winter, they are in close contact more often, and this promotes transmission from person to person. Another is that cold temperatures lead to drier air, which may dehydrate mucus, preventing the body from effectively expelling virus particles. The virus may also survive longer on exposed surfaces (doorknobs, countertops, etc.) in colder temperatures. Increased travel due to the Northern Hemisphere winter holiday season may also play a role. A contributing factor is that aerosol transmission of the virus is highest in cold environments (less than 5 °C) with low humidity.

Given that Captain Trips is already highly contagious, no real difference in transmission rates would be visible during cold weather (i.e., 99.5% instead of 99%). However, normal influenza could affect someone who was immune to Captain Trips, with interesting consequences, so referees should make appropriate rolls for normal flu infection.

Indeed, symptoms in 1918 were so unusual that initially [the Spanish Flu] was misdiagnosed as dengue, cholera, or typhoid. One observer wrote, "One of the most striking of the complications was hemorrhage from mucous membranes, especially from the nose, stomach, and intestine. Bleeding from the ears and petechial hemorrhages in the skin also occurred." The majority of deaths were from bacterial pneumonia, a secondary infection caused by influenza, but the virus also killed people directly, causing massive hemorrhages and edema in the lung.

Captain Trips is far worse than the Spanish Flu, with correspondingly nasty effects:

Stage Three at the start may resemble asthma, bronchitis, influenza, or mononucleosis. The cold-like symptoms of Stage Two become more severe. Chills, high fever, swollen lymph glands, dizziness, weakness, and painful urination develop. Most characters in this stage go to bed or try to see a doctor. Late in this stage, the illness becomes more like pneumonia; a few characters show delirium just before entering the fourth, terminal stage.

Stage Four resembles pneumonia, bubonic plague and, in some cases, hemorrhagic fever. Breathing becomes difficult and there is much swelling in the face, neck and groin. Swollen areas turn purple, then black. There is much discharge of mucus, which may be bloody. Fever is extremely high, and delirium is common. Characters in this stage are immobilized in most—but not all—cases; as in the earlier stages, any caregiver will be infected unless he or she is immune. Death is usually caused by respiratory failure.

Good personal health and hygiene habits, like hand washing, are reasonably effective in avoiding and minimizing influenza. People who contract influenza are most infective between the second and third days after infection and infectivity lasts for around ten days. Children are notably more infectious than adults and shed virus from just before they develop symptoms until two weeks after infection.

Since Captain Trips has such a high aerosol communicability level, washing hands won't help much. However, in environments where filter masks (or sealed environmental suits) are worn, good hygiene habits may keep you from taking the disease inside with you.

Since influenza spreads through aerosols and contact with contaminated surfaces, it is important to persuade people to cover their mouths while sneezing and to wash their hands regularly. Surface sanitizing is recommended in areas where influenza may be present on surfaces. Alcohol is an effective sanitizer against influenza viruses, while quaternary ammonium compounds can be used with alcohol to increase the duration of the sanitizing action. In hospitals, quaternary ammonium compounds and halogen-releasing agents such as sodium hypochlorite are commonly used to sanitize rooms or equipment that have been occupied by patients with influenza symptoms. During past pandemics, closing schools, churches and theaters slowed the spread of the virus but did not have a large effect on the overall death rate.

I expect Captain Trips to be as vulnerable to santizing as normal influenza. Surface sanitizing will be critical in places where aerosol transmission is heavily mitigated (exotic, vacuum or tainted atmospheres).

Comments re: vacuum and viruses:

Can life survive a journey through space? Experiments offer a resounding yes. For example, Japanese scientists sealed up Bacillus subtilis spores and other various organisms in a vacuum chamber and simulated the conditions of space exposure over a period of 250 years. In the end. half the sample survived, with the tobacco-mosaic virus doing the best at an 85% survival rate. It should be noted that these were normal organisms, not extremophiles which thrive in the nastiest conditions.

So maybe Captain Trips *can* survive vacuum environments. Contact would be the means of transmission, though, so there's no real danger to a man in a space suit.

But if the suit is not thoroughly decontaminated, the man could unwittingly bring it into the ship.

Seems to me that exposure to typical radiation levels of outer space will kill it eventually, though it may take years.

Note: I am *so* not an expert on viruses and microbiology. Help from anyone more knowledgable (by definition, virtually anyone) is appreciated.
 
Ok tbeard1999, I'm brain dead from driving through white-out snow conditions this morning in Indiana, so I'm not up for speculating. But I have been having a lot of fun with this thread. It had me thinking while I was driving and listening to my MP3 player - and it struck me:

You Need Mood Music :)

So here's a list of a bunch of hallowe'en type songs that I thought might be inspirational for your Apocalypse game. You can find most of them on YouTube. A couple you might have to search for - I found MySpace Music to be helpful. Not sure if this is your style, but I thought I'd toss them your way.

Don't Fear The Reaper - Blue Oyster Cult (Which was used in The Stand mini-series)
Them Bones - Alice In Chains
Down With The Sickness - Disturbed
Bring Me To Life - Evanescence
Hollow - Submersed (Get the acoustic version - very moody)
Symphony Of Destruction - Megadeth
Dead Man's Party - Oingo Boingo
Red Rain - Peter Gabriel
Pain Lies On The Riverside - Live
Bad Moon Rising - Credence
Twilight Zone - Golden Earring
Hells Bells - AC/DC
Water's Edge - Seven Mary Three
Mr. Roboto - Styx
Hell - Squirrel Nut Zippers
Sober - Tool

Ok, a little speculation.

The biggest concern is how to design the disease so that it kills reasonably quickly (necessary for drama and to prevent countermeasures from being more effective), yet make it able to be plausibly transmitted by starships from system to system.

Ebola sounds similar to what you are designing symptom-wise with a communicability similar to the common cold: airborne and physical contact. Have you figured out how long it survives outside of a host? On a kitchen counter or door handle? If it spores when there isn't a host, it could stay docile until contact. Reusable cargo containers would be perfect for moving it system to system.
 
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Ok tbeard1999, I'm brain dead from driving through white-out snow conditions this morning in Indiana, so I'm not up for speculating. But I have been having a lot of fun with this thread. It had me thinking while I was driving and listening to my MP3 player - and it struck me:

You Need Mood Music :)

I like em. Some others:

Don't Dream it's Over (Crowded House also played in The Stand)
Project Blue (from The Stand soundtrack; W.G."Snuffy" Walden)
Most of the other tracks from The Stand soundtrack (except Trashman in Vegas which is jarringly cheesy)
Theme from Southern Comfort (Ry Cooder, mixes well with The Stand Sountrack)
Adagio for Strings and Organ in G Minor (Tommaso Albinoni)
Atlantean Sword (Basil Poledouris, "Conan" soundtrack)
Who'll Stop the Rain? (Creedence Clearwater Revival)
Have You Ever Seen the Rain (CCR)
Here Comes the Rain Again (Eurythmics)
Brothers in Army (Dire Straits)
Ecstacy of Gold (Ennio Morricone, "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly")
The Trio (Ennio Morricone, "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly")
Thunder Roll (Garth Brooks)
Most of the Firefly Soundtrack (Greg edmonson, goes well with The Stand soundtrack, esp. "The Funeral" and "Dying Ship")
The Hornburg (Howard Shore "The Two Towers" soundtrack)
The King of the Golden Hall (Howard Shore "The Two Towers" soundtrack)
Death of Titanic (James Horner, "Titanic" soundtrack)
The Sinking (James Horner, "Titanic" soundtrack)
Forever Autumn (Jeff Wayne; Justin Hayward)
Nights in White Satin (Moody Blues)
 
>the built-in mutation that prevents the development of a cure is a belief-breaker for me. If it's built-in, it can be analysed and taken into account.

looking at the present world - HIV and influenza both resist/prevent cure.

HIV is only dormant from anti-retrovirals, it not permanently cured. thats my personal fear with "gene therapy" .... uses similar virus type but they are 100% garuanteed controllable ?

the human based strains of influenza mutate just enough that there isnt any immunity. Now we are discovering species crossover dangers like 'bird flu' that have similar functionality (?) but different make-up.

Im sure higher TLs will have a serious effect on this but unless automated sterilisation protocols (eg microsecond UV blasts in doorways) becomes a high tech reality, I'm sure nature will find a way and humans can give nature a nudge
 
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>the built-in mutation that prevents the development of a cure is a belief-breaker for me. If it's built-in, it can be analysed and taken into account.

looking at the present world - HIV and influenza both resist/prevent cure.
HIV and influenza weren't custom-made using the same level of biotechnology we have access to today. However, I was just expressing an opinion. I would have to suspend my disbelief to accept something like that. OTOH, I do that for lots of other things when I roleplay.

Be that as it may, there are several sources of survival nuclei, at least one of which is supremely equipped to handle the situation. I'm thinking about biological research centers. I've no idea if they actually exist today, but if something like the research center described in Michael Chricton's The Andromeda Strain exist on an infected world, they're not going to become infected. The crews of ships that have been at sea for more than a couple of weeks, personnel of deep meson sites, starships on patrol away from the world, secret deep space bases.

And statistically, the number of people who leave an infected world and travel to another in the timeframe describes is so small in proportion to a world's population that I think there would be a significant chance that none of them happened to be infected. Again, I can't be sure about that, it's just a vague notion I get from the faint echoes of my one-time knowledge of propability calculation.


Hans
 
HIV and influenza weren't custom-made using the same level of biotechnology we have access to today.

You never know. Flu has been around for centuries, but HIV has only been recognized since the late 70's/early 80's. Who knows if it's some left over from a Nazi experiment or somesuch.
 
You never know. Flu has been around for centuries, but HIV has only been recognized since the late 70's/early 80's. Who knows if it's some left over from a Nazi experiment or somesuch.

Considering the precursor retrovirus is a relatively mild STD in a monkey species, it's more likely a result of bushmeat handling... and/or perversion with monkeys.
 
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