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CT Era Spica sector UWP data, by subsector

Malenfant is essentially arguing that colonization of this sector should conform to a vague sort of pattern or justification -- for example, that high-pop worlds have some sort of reason for being high-pop.

I think if you guys are going to organize the sector, you might as well lay an axe to anything that gets in the way.
 
Spica Sector Alpha quadrant (subsectors ABEF)
</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">0102 E**0***-* G so
0103 A******-* F G so
0106 E**0***-* G so
0107 C**0***-* G so
0108 B******-* so
0109 C**0***-* G so
0112 C******-* G so
0113 B******-* F G so
0202 B******-* so
0204 A******-* so
0208 E******-* G so
0209 C******-* G so
0210 E******-* G so
0217 E******-* G so
0220 B**0***-* G so
0307 B******-* G so
0309 C******-* G so
0313 C000H**-* so TERN
0315 A******-* so
0317 A***H**-* F G so TUPINDUR
0401 A******-* G so
0405 B******-* F G so
0411 C******-* G so
0415 C******-* G so
0416 B**0H**-* G so MONTANNA
0419 D******-* G so
0502 B**0***-* so
0507 B******-* G so
0509 D******-* G so
0512 C******-* so
0518 B******-* F G so
0601 C******-* so
0602 E******-* so
0608 C******-* G so
0610 E******-* so
0615 B000***-* F G so
0619 D******-* G so
0701 C******-* na
0710 B******-* F G so
0713 D******-* G na
0715 C******-* so
0717 E******-* G so
0720 X**0***-* so
0803 A***H**-* F G na HYBOREA
0816 B******-* G so
0817 B******-* G so
0818 A**0***-* F so
0901 B******-* na
0903 C******-* G na
0909 A******-* G so
0910 C******-* G na
0913 B******-* na
0914 C**0***-* na
0917 E**0H**-* so JUESS
1002 C******-* na
1010 E******-* na
1014 D******-* na
1016 D**0***-* G so
1017 B******-* F G so
1019 C******-* so
1020 C******-* G so
1104 A******-* F G na
1106 B******-* na
1111 B***H**-* F G na BEVIN
1116 C******-* G so
1120 E******-* so
1206 C******-* na
1207 A******-* F G na
1208 C******-* na
1209 B******-* G na
1211 C**0***-* G na
1212 C******-* na
1216 C******-* na
1219 C******-* G so
1301 E******-* G na
1302 B******-* G na
1303 C******-* na
1307 C**0***-* G na
1311 C******-* G na
1318 B******-* na
1319 B***H**-* G hv QUATRE
1401 C******-* na
1405 A******-* na
1407 E**0***-* G na
1410 C******-* G na
1416 B******-* na
1417 D******-* G na
1502 C******-* G na
1508 E**0***-* G na
1517 E******-* na
1519 E******-* G hv
1601 C******-* G na
1604 D******-* na
1605 D******-* na
1607 D******-* na
1613 E**0***-* G na
1616 B******-* G hv
1617 E**0***-* G na
1618 A******-* na</pre>[/QUOTE]I've used H as the population code for the high pop worlds since it can be 9 or A.
 
That's all the data AotI gives, and I guarantee you can find patterns for pocket empires and the like if you look at the clusters around high pop worlds or worlds with a military base and type A starport ;)

So do you want me to do the rest? After a bit of a rest I can do beta quadrant tonight and then gamma tomorrow night and delta the night after.
 
Sigg - one thing's for sure, the UWPs that you provided don't tally with what Flynn provided. I don't know what Flynn's source was though. Either way, we appear to already have a contradiction there...

What say you let me finish up making the sector map that I'm doing first, then we'll see where we can go from there. I should be done with that in a couple of hours, then I'll post it on my website.
 
Robject is right - I want hipop worlds to be justfied. One of the biggest flaws of Traveller's worldgen is that when you make the the population digit it has no modifiers attached to it - it's just a straight 2d-2 roll, irrespective of how habitable the planet is. This gives us tiny rockballs or insidious worlds with tens of billions of people on, and habitable earthlike worlds with only a few tens of people - both of which are silly.

Basically, I'd expect hipop (as in population 8+) worlds to be like that for a reason. Generally, I'd expect that the worlds that are most likely to be (but don't necessarily have to be) hi-pop would be either the homeworlds of minor races or earthlike worlds. I'd expect everything elseto have a smaller population (there could be the odd exception, but it would be unusual).

One thing's for certain though - I would not expect non-habitable worlds to have high (8+) populations. Sure, they can have small populations (maybe a maximum of pop 6) but they are not going to be places that masses of people will generally want to live in, and the populations are going to remain small. Even in the future after man has spread to the stars, I think that the proportion of people who willingly want to live in low gravity and/or hostile environments are going to be rather small - most people will want to settle on earthlike worlds. That should be reflected in the UWPs by making pop of 8+ only available to earthlike worlds.

I think this makes things more interesting from an adventuring point of view too though - worlds that are off the beaten track are going to tend to be the worlds that are not quite so attractive and will have smaller populations, which means that they're more isolated. Interesting things tend to happen in the more isolated places


Also, hipop worlds aren't necessarily important. Some of them are low TL (below starfaring) which means that despite their population they really don't make any difference on the interstellar stage.
 
Originally posted by Malenfant:
EDIT: Actually, you know what, I can't even understand keeping the hipop worlds - at the moment they're randomly determined. I'm plotting the 9+ pop worlds out on a sector map now and it seems obvious that there's no logic to their placement.
Robject touches on this in his immediate post after, but why should hi-pop worlds have logic to placement? I would imagine that as humanity travels the stars that they settle in areas that are condusive, much like all of Earth's population started near river deltas etc. As far as I know no one has ever determined there was a logical pattern to settlements near river deltas. ;)

-W.
 
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
That's all the data AotI gives, and I guarantee you can find patterns for pocket empires and the like if you look at the clusters around high pop worlds or worlds with a military base and type A starport ;)

So do you want me to do the rest? After a bit of a rest I can do beta quadrant tonight and then gamma tomorrow night and delta the night after.
Sigg Odra, that data also looks a lot like the names that come from the Interactive Atlas of the Imperium online... I looked at that and noticed there were VERY few named systems/mainworlds.... which confused me in the context of much that has been discussed about Spica to date in the threads..... :confused: :confused: :(

-W.
 
Originally posted by Malenfant:
Robject is right - I want hipop worlds to be justfied. One of the biggest flaws of Traveller's worldgen is that when you make the the population digit it has no modifiers attached to it - it's just a straight 2d-2 roll, irrespective of how habitable the planet is. This gives us tiny rockballs or insidious worlds with tens of billions of people on, and habitable earthlike worlds with only a few tens of people - both of which are silly.
---LOTS OF STUFF DELETED---
Ok, I should read ALL posts before posting ;)

Still, so long as a hi-pop world conforms to the above, there shouldn't be any logical pattern... since there is an element of randomness to who will find the worlds ideal for settlement.... also not forgetting things like hi-pop worlds formed due to resources etc. (despite inhospitable, if there is riches to be had, or work to be had people will move there).

Anyhow, the post above is kinda the same argument I had with things being logical... :D

-W.
 
Quite a few times in the past people have taken AotI and then generated full UPPs from the basic data given there.
The Interactive Atlas of the Imperium is one such fan based effort, and a very good one it is at that. The fact remains though that beyond the data in AotI there has been no written version of Spica in canon so we are free to develop it as we feel.
We can use the history that we can find as backstory and fill in the gaps.
 
Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Quite a few times in the past people have taken AotI and then generated full UPPs from the basic data given there.
The Interactive Atlas of the Imperium is one such fan based effort, and a very good one it is at that. The fact remains though that beyond the data in AotI there has been no written version of Spica in canon so we are free to develop it as we feel.
We can use the history that we can find as backstory and fill in the gaps.
I'm curious where Flynn's data comes from.... but if we go just from what you are saying of AotI, most of the discussions to date are moot.


I am appeased by most of the systems being un-named in canon. Others are appeased by being able to be creative with the un-named systems, and all of us can agree there is plenty of UWP data that is blank from which we can create realistic systems.... (This sounds too good to be true!
file_22.gif
:D )

-W.
 
Originally posted by LcKedovan:
Still, so long as a hi-pop world conforms to the above, there shouldn't be any logical pattern... since there is an element of randomness to who will find the worlds ideal for settlement.... also not forgetting things like hi-pop worlds formed due to resources etc. (despite inhospitable, if there is riches to be had, or work to be had people will move there).
That's the thing - I don't believe that will happen. SOME people will move there, sure - but people won't be living on such worlds in their billions.

Let's face it, in the TU resources aren't a problem. You'd be able to find just about any non-biological resource in any system, (e.g. vast amounts of metals in the belts).

If there are any rare resources on uninhabitable worlds (which would have to be something wacky like Lanthanum deposits or zuchai crystals or whatever), it will attract a relatively small number of people to exploit them, who are already adapted to such a life. Hence why I think there should be a cap of pop 6 at most for such worlds. A few million people is still a lot of people, more than enough to exploit the local resources and account for some level of population growth, but it avoids having BILLIONS of people on these hostile worlds.

The vast majority of people in the TU should be living on habitable worlds. Why? Because I firmly believe that no matter what the era is people prefer to breathe natural air, to run around in green (or purple, or blue) fields and bask in the yellow (or white, or orange) sun.

Speaking generally, people (especially ones used to a high-tech lifestyle) don't choose to live somewhere where it's a struggle to live, where they constantly have to worry about life support failing or the when next solar flare is gonna hit. Sure, some hardy types will choose to do that (and they're probably the sort of person represented by your average Traveller PC) but they'll be a small minority of the total human population.

So I can see small numbers of people (represented by an inordinately large span of the UWP digit, from 0 to 6 - but still up to a few million people) living on the non-habitable worlds, but the places that will have a LOT of people (pop 7+) will most likely be habitable, earthlike worlds - say size 6+, atm 4-9, hydrographics 5+.

It also makes the more sense too. Why should an earthlike world have to export its food to a nearby rockball with billions of people? It'd make much more sense for all those people to live on the garden world that's producing the agriculture that they rely on.
 
Flynn's data came from the Missouri Archives, which houses the original GENIE/Sunbane files, from which the AotI was generated. At least, that's my understanding of the data.

Beyond that, I neither vouch for or against the validity of the data. I just thought it was the source used by MWM to make AotI, and as such, would be helpful.

Hope this helps,
Flynn
 
Thanks... If that's the case, I wonder why the GENII data doesn't tally with what Sigg provided?
 
All I've done is hand type all the data in AotI, where that data came from originally I have no idea, but what I typed is what is in Aoti.

It would be nice if MWM would allow the free distribution of the Spica sector from AotI, better yet get it posted as a pdf here so everyone can look at it.

Failing that. I can keep typing it in, if there is any desire to see it.
 
Was Atlas published by DGP?

I thought UWP data was freely distributable.

Hmmm...
 
Sigg - can you please list the worlds with High (9+) Population in the other Quadrants (and also list their allegiences)?

BTW, Quatre (1319) isn't hi-pop in the UWPs that Flynn posted, but the others you list are. There is however a Hiver world at 1519 that is a hipop world in Flynn's UWPs. Are you sure that entry on your list is correct?

ta muchly...
 
High pop worlds of beta quadrant, Spica Sector:</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">1818 A***H**-* G hv TSENT
2003 A***H**-* G na TYROLIA
2010 A***H**-* G na NUGENT
2314 C**0H**-* G na CACHE
2318 A***H**-* hv BAREN
2401 A***H**-* G na APOLLO
2619 E***H**-* G hv TRITRAN
2714 X**0H**-* G na LOUIS
3214 B***H**-* F G na SLINE</pre>[/QUOTE]
 
Hmm. Tsent isn't hipop in the GENII data. Neither are Baren or Tritran.

I'll go with the AotI data anyway. Keep it coming Sigg!
 
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