CT in King Minas' Labyrinth

[epicenter00]

working from the myriad (sometimes contradictory) on-line sources.

While different sources on-line are going to have the whole gamut of crackpot psuedo-science to more mainstream (but perhaps no more correct) scholarship, there's another reason the contradictions: Fairly recently (as far as scholarship goes, so like the last 20 years) there's been some interesting analysis informed by interdisciplinary studies, especially with climate studies, regarding the end of the Minoan civilization and the much wider Bronze Age collapse. Because it's a fairly "new" theory, it's still being probed and a number of sources online will have been written while the theory was still evolving, giving you contradictory stories.

Also, I've found writing about Minoan civilization in particular to be fraught with university politics (particularly university-level gender and economic politics); the Minoans definitely seem to have been put on a (red-painted, I suppose) pedestal in the same way that the Mayans (once) were - anytime you read anything extolling how the Minoans were matriarchal, egalitarian, peaceful, scientifically advanced, and had a large middle-class, you should starting taking salt tablets as it's increasingly likely the writer is filling in the blanks with their own wishful thinking due to ignoring evidence or that there's simply not that much evidence to be found.

 

[san*klass]

Epicenter00 many thanks for a professional take on the Minoans. I am certainly aware that in my blunderings through them I am prey to any number if crackpot pseudo science theories and half truths with a healthy fose of author wishful thinking. I guess that a large part if the problem is the inability to translate LinearA, so leaving Minoan artwork symbolism as the only way of entering their world. But, that is fraught with danger since "Art is in the eye of the beholder".

"Early twenty first century people worshipped strong heroes who could perform acrobatics in slow motion, dodge bullets and drive vehicles off bridges without any damage to the car or themselves. I can prove it by studying their art documents. I think they called it movies??"

 

[Barrel]

I am considering a mechanic whereby if they fail a Survival role the they are captured, and as a punishment enslaved as rowers for the next four year term. Purely my idea again - but maybe a good one?

All thoughts welcome.

Off the top of my head, ancient Greek and Roman rowers were not slaves, but free men. They were professionals, well paid and well fed. Actual galley slaves came about in the Middle Ages, and we can probably thank Charleton Heston movies for the idea of them in ancient times.

Of course, ancient Minoa may well have done things differently. Either way, it's a good game idea, though maybe just have them generically enslaved rather than as galley slaves.

 

[Barrel]

Having had some time to muse while on te train to work today, I have started to plot out my next rules sections.

Combat will be broadly similar to CT, with just rules for Bronze Age missile weapons and shield added to the melee weapons already in CT. Since I think that armour must have been quite an encumbrance in 40+Celsius heat, I want to build in some rules that reflect that and make No Armour a valid option. Historically some Minoans and Mycenaean's fought totally in the buff - so I need to reflect that choice.

Ships will be broadly similar to Mercator, but trending to the lower, smaller end of the spectrum. Maybe just the two sizes of Coastal Traders and Merchant Galleys, since that is all that Minoan frescos show us. I would also tend to follow Mercator as regards ship rules - but again far simpler. No shipboard artillery, no rams, maybe just hand held missiles and grappling hooks to prepare for boarding actions.

Trade is going to be very different though. In this era there were no coins and no organised trade. And so shipping at a base rate for others is probably out the window - unless they are desperate, or friends of yours. Passengers are possible - but less common.

Trade will then, mostly, be Speculative, but (without coinage) a little more complex. I can imagine two possibilities existing side by side. As follows;-

1) You have a cargo of bronze which you sell to the local bronzesmith, receiving bronze armour and weapons in return. Both sides will use merchant and bronzesmith skills (if they have them) to determine the "price" of each set of goods. And then haggle to get the best deal for themselves. You use the prices in Mercator as a basis, but modify on the % table. So an excellent spear (determined by bronzesmith skill) could be at 130% base price, while a poorly made one at 60%. Then the haggling (Merchant skill) follows after the base is established.
2) You have a cargo of bronze which you take to the local "palace" (these seem to be trade and craft centers as much rulership and religious ones). The administrators here will examine your cargo and set a price (base % roll which determines the market for bronze at that center today). If you sell then you receive "credit" for that price which you can then use to buy any other cargo that you can afford. Whether, today, tomorrow or next week is immaterial. Any credit left over remains at that center until you use it, or pays for supplies for your crew. The only drawback is that the center takes a cut of the selling price (5-10%??) for the service.

Anyway I am back to work, so more thoughts later.

They really didn't have any medium of exchange at all? It seems impossible that the whole economy of a civilization could be run on barter! It doesn't have to be coins, just something durable that people generally feel is valuable. Didn't the Mayans use cocoa beans?

 

[Chaos]

They really didn't have any medium of exchange at all? It seems impossible that the whole economy of a civilization could be run on barter! It doesn't have to be coins, just something durable that people generally feel is valuable. Didn't the Mayans use cocoa beans?

I think they used to use cattle as a standard of wealth - or at least I have a hazy memory of having read something like that. Cattle is kind of impractical, though, not least because it is alive.

A good medium of exchange is durable (in that it does not spoil, rot, melt or whatever), portable and reasonably rare. "Rare" does not mean there´s hardly any to be found, it merely means that there is a limited supply of it.

In this setting, one idea would be to use bronze ingots as a method of exchange - they´re durable, portable, and useful for something practical, too. Or at least you could use them as a numeraire, i.e. to express the relative value of other goods - like, an amphora of grain is worth 1/10 of 10 lb bronze ingot.

 

[whulorigan]

Pre-coinage barter societies often used the predecessor of coinage: actual weights of precious metals. The terms penny (i.e. "pennyweight"), as well as terms like "shekel", "mina", "talent", and "Librum" (i.e. "lb." or "Pound") all refered originally to weights, not coins, and is why merchants had scales as a regular part of their equipment - to weigh out money. Coinage came later as an official government-backed "convenience" in which the coins were pre-minted to a certain weight and carried penalties for counterfeiting or "clipping".

The ancient Irish did use cattle as a standard, IIRC, and many nations did rate things relative to livestock as well.

 

[The Oz]

I believe the Mesopotamians use bushels of wheat as a standard of value.

 

[Ulsyus]

You've likely seen these, but I'll put them up just in case you haven't.

While the coins here are certainly from a later point in time, they at least give you options if you wanted to drop them in to your campaign.

The post from this guy gives an interesting proposition that they used saffron as a medium of exchange. He also lists his sources, so if you haven't seen it before it could be useful.

I am certainly aware that in my blunderings through them I am prey to any number if crackpot pseudo science theories and half truths with a healthy fose of author wishful thinking.

There's nothing to say you can't just fill in the gaps yourself. Had you thought of doing that with a series of assumptions, so that you're clear with what's history and what's not? You could then continue to research the assumptions and if you managed to find info on them, you'd then be in a position to make a conscious decision about what to use in the campaign.