This fella by the name of Mark Seemann has some neat bots with illustrations!
http://www.seemann.ms/traveller.htm
http://www.seemann.ms/traveller.htm
CT robot PCs
- Thread starter parmasson
- Start date
The survey bot doesn't need one. It's got a sealed hull and underwater maneuvering gear. The only thing it needs is some oxygen supply for the fuel cells.
If it wants to make an underwater trip (it is fairly heavy - no flotation) it can just go on batteries and recharge them using the fuel cell when it resurfaces - just as any good ol' SSK does.
Regards,
Tobias
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Thread Resurrect!
OK, I am working on two robot designs for a character - one is actually a computerized vehicle, while the other is a humaniform man Friday. LBB8 is really painful, and some of the assumptions don't work well (as mentioned here, already). But, here is what I came up with:
Grav chair (character is semi-invalid doctor and scientist of robotics)
TL15-16
B474D-08-LR21D-UFAA, 1181kg, 1.62MCr
1000l ovoid, upgraded armor to "cloth"
Smallest fusion PP, w/ TL15 advantages (735 units power!!)
(interchangeable with fuel cells: 1 4 and 26s for almost the same power)
50 units of TL16 batteries (this guy's a little paranoid about the power going out)
14 days fuel for the fusion plant (26 days endurance for the fuel cells)
2 Ultra Heavy grav units for almost 3/4g accel (on a 1g planet).
2x Light Arms and 2x Very Light Tentacles on the "inside" of the chair
2x Heavy Arms and 2x Heavy Tentacles on the "outside"
Medical Instruments, Electronic and Mechanical tools (reduced set - just enough to work on robots ), ECM (ext), cont range Radio, Full Sensor suite, Holo recorder/display, Brain interface (actual wetware jack for character)
Short range stun field (similar to "neural" weapons in MT)
Retractable full enclosure (variable transparency, vacuum capable, Edit: sealed hull end edit)
Liquid air tanks (25l)
15 parallel/5 synaptic CPUs, 100 standard storage units, Low Autonomous, Basic Command
Grav Vehicle=4 (for driving itself), Communications=4, Security=2, Steward=2, Rescue=1
(BTW, I have no odea what Rescue does, or Security for that matter. They aren't explained in LBB8.
)
IN storage (as databases only, so I halved the requirements): Electronics=4, Mechanical=4, Engineering=4, Gravitics=4, Robotics=6, Medical=6, Legal=2
Approximately 200l set aside for the seat and the character, with about 31l left over.
Critiques? (I will admit to fudging some things, as this doesn't need to be a full robot, but an extension of the character.)
OK, I am working on two robot designs for a character - one is actually a computerized vehicle, while the other is a humaniform man Friday. LBB8 is really painful, and some of the assumptions don't work well (as mentioned here, already). But, here is what I came up with:
Grav chair (character is semi-invalid doctor and scientist of robotics)
TL15-16
B474D-08-LR21D-UFAA, 1181kg, 1.62MCr
1000l ovoid, upgraded armor to "cloth"
Smallest fusion PP, w/ TL15 advantages (735 units power!!)
(interchangeable with fuel cells: 1 4 and 26s for almost the same power)
50 units of TL16 batteries (this guy's a little paranoid about the power going out)
14 days fuel for the fusion plant (26 days endurance for the fuel cells)
2 Ultra Heavy grav units for almost 3/4g accel (on a 1g planet).
2x Light Arms and 2x Very Light Tentacles on the "inside" of the chair
2x Heavy Arms and 2x Heavy Tentacles on the "outside"
Medical Instruments, Electronic and Mechanical tools (reduced set - just enough to work on robots
), ECM (ext), cont range Radio, Full Sensor suite, Holo recorder/display, Brain interface (actual wetware jack for character)Short range stun field (similar to "neural" weapons in MT)
Retractable full enclosure (variable transparency, vacuum capable, Edit: sealed hull end edit)
Liquid air tanks (25l)
15 parallel/5 synaptic CPUs, 100 standard storage units, Low Autonomous, Basic Command
Grav Vehicle=4 (for driving itself), Communications=4, Security=2, Steward=2, Rescue=1
(BTW, I have no odea what Rescue does, or Security for that matter. They aren't explained in LBB8.
)IN storage (as databases only, so I halved the requirements): Electronics=4, Mechanical=4, Engineering=4, Gravitics=4, Robotics=6, Medical=6, Legal=2
Approximately 200l set aside for the seat and the character, with about 31l left over.
Critiques? (I will admit to fudging some things, as this doesn't need to be a full robot, but an extension of the character.)
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
I would love to know whether any of the above makes the chair capable of injecting the poor doctor with Slow and encapsulating him in a medical emergency. (A cheap emergency low berth function......)
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Well, KG, the full enclosure (like a bubble that seals him in) is essentially a vacc suit - after all, he has arms and tentacles on the outside to manipulate things. That's why I put the "LOX" in there - it allows something like 50 hours (IIRC, I will have to find my notes on that bit) of breathing at a normal rate, unscrubbed.
And, yes, it is very overpowered. But, that is the smallest fusion plant you can get...
Edit: BTW, with that grav drive, who needs a re-entry kit? He'll just fly on in. An egg is streamlined, BTW end edit
And, yes, it is very overpowered. But, that is the smallest fusion plant you can get...
Edit: BTW, with that grav drive, who needs a re-entry kit? He'll just fly on in. An egg is streamlined, BTW end edit
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Here's a rough on the humaniform "butler":
TL 15-16
76242-A2-MN32M-PCG4(J), 393kg, 12.9MCr
150l torso, pseudo-bio, humaniform
Type C fuel cell (TL15) 90 pwr units
5 units TL16 batteries
10 days fuel
2 Legs, gives additional 45l (after transmission)
(Considering adding HV Grav - would use 20l remaining space)
2 Medium Arms, 1 10l head
Air tanks ("lungs") - 40l (so he can run his fuel cells for a bit even in vacuum/underwater/etc.)
Visual (+everything), Olfactory+, Touch+, all other sensors, voder, Regional range radio, holo recorder, Power/Program/Brain interfaces
Contact stunner
15 parallel/15 synaptic CPUs, 25 standard/25 synaptic storage units, High Autonomous, Full Command
Grav Vehicle=3, Ships Boat=1, 5xVehicle=1, Survival=1, Communications=4, Steward=4, Valet=4, Emotion=1, Mechanical=1, Electronics=1, Gravitics=1, Security=3, Close Cbt=3, Auto/Body/Snub/Laser Pistol=3
28l left over - of which I may use 20 for a grav drive (for surprises, of course), and a couple of liters for a built-in gauss "pistol". Still leaves a little room for carting about stuff.
TL 15-16
76242-A2-MN32M-PCG4(J), 393kg, 12.9MCr
150l torso, pseudo-bio, humaniform
Type C fuel cell (TL15) 90 pwr units
5 units TL16 batteries
10 days fuel
2 Legs, gives additional 45l (after transmission)
(Considering adding HV Grav - would use 20l remaining space)
2 Medium Arms, 1 10l head
Air tanks ("lungs") - 40l (so he can run his fuel cells for a bit even in vacuum/underwater/etc.)
Visual (+everything), Olfactory+, Touch+, all other sensors, voder, Regional range radio, holo recorder, Power/Program/Brain interfaces
Contact stunner
15 parallel/15 synaptic CPUs, 25 standard/25 synaptic storage units, High Autonomous, Full Command
Grav Vehicle=3, Ships Boat=1, 5xVehicle=1, Survival=1, Communications=4, Steward=4, Valet=4, Emotion=1, Mechanical=1, Electronics=1, Gravitics=1, Security=3, Close Cbt=3, Auto/Body/Snub/Laser Pistol=3
28l left over - of which I may use 20 for a grav drive (for surprises, of course), and a couple of liters for a built-in gauss "pistol". Still leaves a little room for carting about stuff.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
BTW, the idea is to give these in lieu of a "lab ship" award. Its still less than 10% of a lab ship's cost, so its kosher there.
Would it be acceptable to most referees, though? (I used MT basic chargen, BTW.)
The character is 444DGB-x (started as 646CB9). The SOC is an honorary title of some kind (like Elton John getting knighted). Medical-4, Robotics-4, Biology-3, Computer-3, Electronic-1, Mechanical-1, Gravitics-1, Robot Ops-1, Instruction-1, Admin-1, Laser Pistol-0, Grav Vehicle-0, Animal Handler (Aid dog)-1
I explain the stat loss as a degenerative disease (not too harsh, though, if you please). Hence, the funky grav "wheel"chair. And, the Mr. Big is a little bit of compensation for being so puny.
So, do these robots make sense, and do you see any bad math, tweaks, etc.?
Would it be acceptable to most referees, though? (I used MT basic chargen, BTW.)
The character is 444DGB-x (started as 646CB9). The SOC is an honorary title of some kind (like Elton John getting knighted). Medical-4, Robotics-4, Biology-3, Computer-3, Electronic-1, Mechanical-1, Gravitics-1, Robot Ops-1, Instruction-1, Admin-1, Laser Pistol-0, Grav Vehicle-0, Animal Handler (Aid dog)-1
I explain the stat loss as a degenerative disease (not too harsh, though, if you please). Hence, the funky grav "wheel"chair. And, the Mr. Big is a little bit of compensation for being so puny.
So, do these robots make sense, and do you see any bad math, tweaks, etc.?
Allow me to introduce Roger. While Roger is not human, I think he may be a good example of what you were hoping to achieve in this thread. First some background. Roger joined my party when we won the ship on (in a poker game: It was an oddball design known as a "Gambler class merchant" named the "Inside Straight". The previous owner did not fill his inside straight while the member of our party who was playing did, so we kept the name. ) which he was currently acting as the mascot. It seems he had been drifting around that area of space for some time. He would “adopt” a ship for a while then move on to another. As he seemed to bring those ships good luck (obviously arranged at first), he was welcomed on almost any ship he so chose to so honor. Roger is supposedly a monkey about the size of a big chimp. In actuality, he was a spy robot for Norris’s intelligence network.
Model: Roger 1 URP: 551E-F2-MN429-NFE4(M) CR 2165550 120.4 Kg
Fuel: 47 Ltr. Duration: 13.05 Days Tech Level 17
Damage: 20/50 (Mesh)
Appendages installed: Head(s): 1 Head volume (Liters): 15
2 Arm(s), medium
Sensors installed:
1 Voder
2 Visual sensor
1 Magnetic sensor
2 passive infrared
1 Radiation sensor
2 Audio sensor
1 Mass sensor
2 extra sensitivity
1 Neutrino sensor
1 Olfactory sensor
Equipment installed:
1 TL 15 Holo Recorder (3D)
1 Power interface
1 Brain interface
1 Program interface
Weapons Installed:None
Special Items installed: 1 0
1 0 3 0
1 0
Skills:
Emotion Simulation 1
Close Combat 2
Emotion Simulation 2nd 1
Electronics 2
Vacc Suit 1
Forgery 4
Language 2
Language 2
Language 1
Comments:
This robot is an attempt to re-construct a robot used as an NPC in the late 1980's. Roger was supposedly an adolescent human sized monkey that sort of 'floated' around parts of the Spinward Marches 'adopting' different independent trading ships as his temporary home. He seemed to bring good luck to whatever ship he adopted so he was usually allowed to stay wherever he chose. When I ran into him, he had been an accepted member of several ships' crews. In actuality he was a spy for Imperial Intelligence, which explains the skills and special equipment. Roger was programmed to speak "Monkey" as well as 2 human languages.(Of course nobody in the general population ever heard him use anything but Monkey. The grav modules were to offset some of his weight so he would appear to be lighter than he actually was.) Roger was about 30 years old, so his education would be more than shown. The emotion simulation(s) were to enable him to seem like a monkey, and to understand human emotions.
URP
Chassis Size 5
Chassis Configuration 5
Power Plant 1
Batteries 5
Locomotion E
-
Head F
Appendages 2
-
CPU Spaces M
Storage Spaces N
Logic Program 4
Command Program 2
# application Programs 9
-
Apparent Strength N
Apparent Dexterity F
Apparent Intelligence E
Apparent Education 4
Max Education (M)
My character discovered what he realy was and was sworn to secrecy. Don't think any other party members ever discovered what was up with Roger.
Model: Roger 1 URP: 551E-F2-MN429-NFE4(M) CR 2165550 120.4 Kg
Fuel: 47 Ltr. Duration: 13.05 Days Tech Level 17
Damage: 20/50 (Mesh)
Appendages installed: Head(s): 1 Head volume (Liters): 15
2 Arm(s), medium
Sensors installed:
1 Voder
2 Visual sensor
1 Magnetic sensor
2 passive infrared
1 Radiation sensor
2 Audio sensor
1 Mass sensor
2 extra sensitivity
1 Neutrino sensor
1 Olfactory sensor
Equipment installed:
1 TL 15 Holo Recorder (3D)
1 Power interface
1 Brain interface
1 Program interface
Weapons Installed:None
Special Items installed: 1 0
1 0 3 0
1 0
Skills:
Emotion Simulation 1
Close Combat 2
Emotion Simulation 2nd 1
Electronics 2
Vacc Suit 1
Forgery 4
Language 2
Language 2
Language 1
Comments:
This robot is an attempt to re-construct a robot used as an NPC in the late 1980's. Roger was supposedly an adolescent human sized monkey that sort of 'floated' around parts of the Spinward Marches 'adopting' different independent trading ships as his temporary home. He seemed to bring good luck to whatever ship he adopted so he was usually allowed to stay wherever he chose. When I ran into him, he had been an accepted member of several ships' crews. In actuality he was a spy for Imperial Intelligence, which explains the skills and special equipment. Roger was programmed to speak "Monkey" as well as 2 human languages.(Of course nobody in the general population ever heard him use anything but Monkey. The grav modules were to offset some of his weight so he would appear to be lighter than he actually was.) Roger was about 30 years old, so his education would be more than shown. The emotion simulation(s) were to enable him to seem like a monkey, and to understand human emotions.
URP
Chassis Size 5
Chassis Configuration 5
Power Plant 1
Batteries 5
Locomotion E
-
Head F
Appendages 2
-
CPU Spaces M
Storage Spaces N
Logic Program 4
Command Program 2
# application Programs 9
-
Apparent Strength N
Apparent Dexterity F
Apparent Intelligence E
Apparent Education 4
Max Education (M)
My character discovered what he realy was and was sworn to secrecy. Don't think any other party members ever discovered what was up with Roger.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
15 liters for a chimpanzee head??!! 
And nobody figured out this wasn't a chimp? Obviously, they don't have Animal Planet in the 3i!
Seriously, one of the hardest parts is wrapping my head around the volumes involved in robot design. I finally went searching for some actual numbers on displacement volume of average human bodies, average displacement of the lungs, etc. Since none of the equipment (like sensors, radios, or toolkits) actually takes any volume (LBB8 tables), you get a pretty hollow robot.
And an average human head runs around 8" diameter - so about 5 liters - you're going to be hard-pressed to justify the 5% minimum size on a 100l torso, much less a 150l torso. My design above gives a rather large head - it is going to be impossible to buy this robot hats off the rack. (Of course, he has to shop at the big & tall, anyway....) (As an aside, I figure I have about a 9" diameter head, and I have to buy hats in XL, and keep my hair short. Yeah, yeah, yuck it up, funny boy.)
And nobody figured out this wasn't a chimp? Obviously, they don't have Animal Planet in the 3i!
Seriously, one of the hardest parts is wrapping my head around the volumes involved in robot design. I finally went searching for some actual numbers on displacement volume of average human bodies, average displacement of the lungs, etc. Since none of the equipment (like sensors, radios, or toolkits) actually takes any volume (LBB8 tables), you get a pretty hollow robot.
And an average human head runs around 8" diameter - so about 5 liters - you're going to be hard-pressed to justify the 5% minimum size on a 100l torso, much less a 150l torso. My design above gives a rather large head - it is going to be impossible to buy this robot hats off the rack. (Of course, he has to shop at the big & tall, anyway....) (As an aside, I figure I have about a 9" diameter head, and I have to buy hats in XL, and keep my hair short. Yeah, yeah, yuck it up, funny boy.)
OK, so I did not think that one out enough. He is a monkey of some sort. How about a small gorillia, or one from another planet that tends to have large heads? Maybe a conehead?
I never stopped to figure what the actual volumes of the body parts actually should be, but the legs are most likely oversized too.
I never stopped to figure what the actual volumes of the body parts actually should be, but the legs are most likely oversized too.
Spiderfish
SOC-12
In the 3i all surviving chimps are descended from a a genetically engineered strain of hypercephallic chimps so the robot doesn't look out of the ordinary...Originally posted by Fritz88:
[QB] 15 liters for a chimpanzee head??!!
I have just aquired a copy of LBB8: Robots, and I am simply stunned at the absolescnece of the technology in this supplement...
The volumes for some of the sensors is just enormous... Take into account that currently we can build cameras that are very high resolution and take up no more room than a penny And smaller cameras are possible if you want to talk state-of-the-art.
The Processors are still huge and terribly slow when compared to modern day computers, and the transmissions are idiotically huge (Anyone seen QRIO or Asimo; perfect examples of Late TL7/early TL8 anthropomorphic robots. In five years they will look primitive by comparison. The Japanese will have a fully functioning human robot that can function as a construction assitant in two years that wil be able to lift up to 100kg, and run at a speed of 20kph...
Then there are all of the inference engines, search engines and chat bots that already can do a hell of a job at simulating human interactions along a narrow field of subjects (In case you have time check out Cyc. It has produced some SCARY smart Chat bots). With slightly faster processors, and a bit more parallel Processor cores these engines will be able to produce some pretty efficient weak AIs...
If you follow the work of Vernor Vinge or Raymond Kurzweil, we will have a fully functioning AI in around 10 to 20 years...
LBB8, needs to at least have its weights and measures updated a bit to correspond to contemporary technologies.
The volumes for some of the sensors is just enormous... Take into account that currently we can build cameras that are very high resolution and take up no more room than a penny And smaller cameras are possible if you want to talk state-of-the-art.
The Processors are still huge and terribly slow when compared to modern day computers, and the transmissions are idiotically huge (Anyone seen QRIO or Asimo; perfect examples of Late TL7/early TL8 anthropomorphic robots. In five years they will look primitive by comparison. The Japanese will have a fully functioning human robot that can function as a construction assitant in two years that wil be able to lift up to 100kg, and run at a speed of 20kph...
Then there are all of the inference engines, search engines and chat bots that already can do a hell of a job at simulating human interactions along a narrow field of subjects (In case you have time check out Cyc. It has produced some SCARY smart Chat bots). With slightly faster processors, and a bit more parallel Processor cores these engines will be able to produce some pretty efficient weak AIs...
If you follow the work of Vernor Vinge or Raymond Kurzweil, we will have a fully functioning AI in around 10 to 20 years...
LBB8, needs to at least have its weights and measures updated a bit to correspond to contemporary technologies.
Don't ask me why I find this fascinating...some stuff found via GOOGLE on various volumes for the human body:
a volume chart with organ level resolution:
http://www.nanomedicine.com/NMI/Tables/8.9.jpg
the article:
http://www.nanomedicine.com/NMI/8.2.5.htm
some leg volumes:
http://www.nsbri.org/HumanPhysSpace/focus2/spaceflight-leg.html
head and legs:
http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/books/skylab/Ch22.htm
How much water is there in your shipmate? Important to know if you crash on Arrakis
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/85/3/1056#B12
a volume chart with organ level resolution:
http://www.nanomedicine.com/NMI/Tables/8.9.jpg
the article:
http://www.nanomedicine.com/NMI/8.2.5.htm
some leg volumes:
http://www.nsbri.org/HumanPhysSpace/focus2/spaceflight-leg.html
head and legs:
http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/books/skylab/Ch22.htm
How much water is there in your shipmate? Important to know if you crash on Arrakis
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/85/3/1056#B12
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Ptah, I'm assuming the commas in that first one are the European decimal; otherwise I'm way below average for body volume. (Hint to some Europeans: if you use a "," instead of a ".", don't use three significant decimal places; use two or four.
)
It (the table) seems a little low, though - unless it is assuming holding the breath, without assuming the lungs as part of the volume. More than one source I found related an almost 1kg/l density for humans with breath expelled. So, a 70kg human should have a volume of closer to 70l than 60l. (BTW, what is a L^3?
)
That leg one is telling - after all, the legs on my robot had to be 90l! But that is an artifact of the stupid rule on transmissions and suspensions. I don't even think Earl Campbell's legs were that big....
How do we come up with a sane rule for figuring leg volume? I think it needs to be based on hull volume (to assume a certain density of the "torso"), with a minimum power rating needed to make the legs move. You could then provide numbers for how big a normal human leg is, and let a person figure what they could fit in a torso based on that.
Judas, what volumes for sensors? I see power requirements, weight and cost. Evidently, sensors in TL12+ 3I are perfectly flat, but really heavy...
It (the table) seems a little low, though - unless it is assuming holding the breath, without assuming the lungs as part of the volume. More than one source I found related an almost 1kg/l density for humans with breath expelled. So, a 70kg human should have a volume of closer to 70l than 60l. (BTW, what is a L^3?
)That leg one is telling - after all, the legs on my robot had to be 90l!
But that is an artifact of the stupid rule on transmissions and suspensions. I don't even think Earl Campbell's legs were that big....
Judas, what volumes for sensors? I see power requirements, weight and cost. Evidently, sensors in TL12+ 3I are perfectly flat, but really heavy...
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
BTW, for all you 'mercans, for a 15l volume, just put together 4 large milk jugs........
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Oh, another reason the leg rules are broken is that you have to triple the size of the legs at TL15, because your fuel cell/fusion plant puts out more power! How silly is that?
How silly is that?Fritz88:
The units of volume appear to be cm^3 or milliliters, so your right 60 liters for totatl volume in that table. I've no idea what L^3.
I too would think the density of the human body is close to that of water. 70kg/60L gives a density of 1.16 g/cm^3.
Anyway, some rough data to compare the relative volume ratios of "inferior" biological structures to the cybernetic parts.
The variation in human leg volume really surprised me.
Your legs had to be 90L, man that's big, about 10x a human leg, even if that human leg was the shapely one of the astronaut in the inset picture.
As to sensors, did you see the first link gives a volume for eyes? Whether you include the brain as part of the sensor volume is another question.
The units of volume appear to be cm^3 or milliliters, so your right 60 liters for totatl volume in that table. I've no idea what L^3.
I too would think the density of the human body is close to that of water. 70kg/60L gives a density of 1.16 g/cm^3.
Anyway, some rough data to compare the relative volume ratios of "inferior" biological structures to the cybernetic parts.
The variation in human leg volume really surprised me.
Your legs had to be 90L, man that's big, about 10x a human leg, even if that human leg was the shapely one of the astronaut in the inset picture.
As to sensors, did you see the first link gives a volume for eyes? Whether you include the brain as part of the sensor volume is another question.
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
That young woman would have to be about 12 feet tall to have shapely legs that displaced 90l!
The sources I found specified a density slightly less than that of water when you weren't exhaling - so, yeah, volume should really be slightly more than 70l, not less.
I liked the chart, BTW. Don't get me wrong. I was just assuming most of what appeared to be really large volumes were liters done with the Euro-decimal (","). But, you're right, they work as cm^3.
As to the comments on sensors, I was assuming Judas was referring to the robot rules in LBB8 - and I don't see any volumes for any of the Sensors or Devices. Its why I still have so much room left over in this fella.....
Edit: BTW, I am going to try building the butler using the original power output as what I have to build the legs to handle, and see how it goes then. end edit
I liked the chart, BTW. Don't get me wrong. I was just assuming most of what appeared to be really large volumes were liters done with the Euro-decimal (","). But, you're right, they work as cm^3.
As to the comments on sensors, I was assuming Judas was referring to the robot rules in LBB8 - and I don't see any volumes for any of the Sensors or Devices. Its why I still have so much room left over in this fella.....
Edit: BTW, I am going to try building the butler using the original power output as what I have to build the legs to handle, and see how it goes then. end edit
gregcaires
SOC-12
Robots as PCs -- CHARGEN
Has anyone every seen anyone ever try to create a robot or android CHARGEN process?
Has anyone every seen anyone ever try to create a robot or android CHARGEN process?
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