CT Striker DS 4 MRL questions Installment 1

[snrdg082102]

Help, I've looked at the multiple rocket launcher design sequence and I'm more confused than usual.

Q1. Per DS 4: the MRL is available at TL 6 and is limited to the mortar gun type right?

Per DS 4A the launcher consists of a number of launch tubes, plus fire control and carriage.

Q2A. Would the indirect fire control system be the required one?

Q2B. Can you select the direct and point defense fire control options?

Q2C. Can the MRL be installed on a vehicle and would the carriage still be required?

DS 4A1. Crew: A launcher's crew is the normal crew for the weapon size, times the number of tubes in the launcher, divided by 10 (but never less than 2). All crew except the gunner are required for reloading; if the weapon is to be used only once, the rest of the crew may be dispensed with.

Hopefully, my crew break down below is on the right track:

Towed/Carriage crew requirement:
Example 1: 2 tube 8 cm MRL has an unmodified normal crew of 6 and minimum crew of 3 per DS 4A1. Crew:

This MRL requires a normal crew of (2 x 6) ÷ 10 = 12 ÷ 10 = 1.2 and a minimum crew of (2 x 3) ÷ 10 = 6 ÷ 10 = 0.6. Both the normal and minimum crew are < 2 and not designated as a single use weapon the required normal and minimum crew is 2.

If the MRL is designated as a single shot weapon then the normal and minimum crew would be 1.

Q3A. Have I gotten the crew requirement calculation correct?

Q3B. If the MRL can be vehicle mounted the normal and minimum crew size increases by 1 right?

DS 4A2 Weight, A3 Volume, and A4 Price calculations using a 2 tube 8 cm MRL:

Q4. Are my calculations correct for the following?

MRL weight = Bore size weight x (mortar weight multiplier + (number of tubes x 0.01).

8 cm weight = .66 tons, the mortar weight multiplier = 0.25 and DS 4A2 = (2 x 0.01) = .02.

MRL weight = .66 x (0.25 + .02) = .66 x .027 = 0.1782 tons or 178.2 kg.

MRL volume = Gun weight x 25 = 0.1782 x 25 = 4.455 m^3

MRL Price = 8 cm gun price x (mortar price multiplier + (number of tubes x 0.5).


8 cm price = 26 tons, the mortar multiplier = 0.1 and DS 4A2 = (2 x 0.5) = 1.0.

MRL Price = 26 x (0.1 + 1.0) = 26 x 1.1 = 28.6 KCr.

Stay tuned for the next installment

 

[Carlobrand]

Help, I've looked at the multiple rocket launcher design sequence and I'm more confused than usual.

Q1. Per DS 4: the MRL is available at TL 6 and is limited to the mortar gun type right?

MRLs are available at TL 6 and use "the same characteristics as mortars" with certain exceptions - which is to say you design them as if you were designing a mortar except where it says otherwise: crew, the need for multiple tubes and their weight/volume/price, determining the rocket ranges, rate of fire (which is all the tubes at once), and characteristics of the ammunition.
.

Q2A. Would the indirect fire control system be the required one?

Yes. The MRL is an indirect fire weapon. It's just a bunch of (usually) unguided rockets loaded into a box containing many tubes (or rails, in some cases). You angle it up, launch all the rockets off (usually it's something like one every second or so until the launcher array is empty), and if you got the angle right, they come down where you want them in the world's worst mutha of a sudden and intense artillery barrage. Look up a "Stalin Organ" on Youtube, you'll get a good idea of how they work. Troops exposed to them found them very frightening.

Q2B. Can you select the direct and point defense fire control options?

No. Rocket go up, rocket come down; it's an indirect-fire weapon. There might have been cases of them being fired straight on at something really close, but I don't know of them - and that's a pretty desperate ploy considering that all your rockets are going to series off and the target (if it survived the first rocket) will be doing its level best to move out of the firing line before the second and subsequent ones get there. Within the game rules, MRLs are indirect fire only (Striker Book 2, Pg 6).

If you're thinking direct-fire rockets, you're thinking more along the lines of a bazooka, panzerfaust, that kind of thing.

Q2C. Can the MRL be installed on a vehicle and would the carriage still be required??

Yes - see the Katyusha aka "Stalin Organ", the American T-34 Calliope, and the more modern M-270 Multiple-Launch-Rocket-System.

And - I'd have to say no, based on that "same characteristics as mortars" bit and the fact that CPR guns don't need a carriage when vehicle-mounted. However, keep in mind that MRLs have wicked backblast: the MRL is mounted exterior to the vehicle (on the top or in a truck-bed-like arrangement).

Makes for a dandy shoot-and-scoot artillery piece, real hard to hit with counterbattery 'cause they've moved on before your barrage hits where they were.

DS 4A1. Crew: A launcher's crew is the normal crew for the weapon size, times the number of tubes in the launcher, divided by 10 (but never less than 2). All crew except the gunner are required for reloading; if the weapon is to be used only once, the rest of the crew may be dispensed with.

Hopefully, my crew break down below is on the right track:

Towed/Carriage crew requirement:
Example 1: 2 tube 8 cm MRL has an unmodified normal crew of 6 and minimum crew of 3 per DS 4A1. Crew:

This MRL requires a normal crew of (2 x 6) ÷ 10 = 12 ÷ 10 = 1.2 and a minimum crew of (2 x 3) ÷ 10 = 6 ÷ 10 = 0.6. Both the normal and minimum crew are < 2 and not designated as a single use weapon the required normal and minimum crew is 2.

If the MRL is designated as a single shot weapon then the normal and minimum crew would be 1.

Q3A. Have I gotten the crew requirement calculation correct?

Two tubes? Your calculations are right, but that's not much as an MRL. Keep in mind that the beaten zone of an artillery barrage is the square root of the number of rounds - 1 makes a 1 by 1, 4 makes a 2 by 2, 9 makes a 3 by 3 and so forth. Your two-shotter is no more effective than a one-shotter. You could use laser guidance at TL 8, but point defense shows up at TL 9 and you'd need at least 9 rounds, ideally more, to have a decent chance of getting through it.

Q3B. If the MRL can be vehicle mounted the normal and minimum crew size increases by 1 right?

Why? The vehicle can't move when the MRL's being fired, nor can it be loaded on the move, ergo the driver can double as a loader during the stops. Shoot, scoot, go to the next preplanned launch site, load, repeat.

DS 4A2 Weight, A3 Volume, and A4 Price calculations using a 2 tube 8 cm MRL:

Q4. Are my calculations correct for the following?

MRL weight = Bore size weight x (mortar weight multiplier + (number of tubes x 0.01).

8 cm weight = .66 tons, the mortar weight multiplier = 0.25 and DS 4A2 = (2 x 0.01) = .02.

MRL weight = .66 x (0.25 + .02) = .66 x .027 = 0.1782 tons or 178.2 kg.

"Using the same characteristics as mortars with the following exceptions: ...Each tube has a weight multiplier of 0.01." This replaces the mortar weight multiplier of 0.25. So: 0.66 tons x 0.01 is the weight of one tube: 0.0066 tons. Now multiply by number of tubes: 2 x 0.0066 = 0.0132 tons, or 13.2 Kg. It's just a thin-walled tube with maybe a guide track, or sometimes it's just a rail.

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=15416

MRL volume = Gun weight x 25 = 0.1782 x 25 = 4.455 m^3

Technically, tube weight x 25, so 0.0132 x 25 = 0.33 m^3 for the two tubes.

MRL Price = 8 cm gun price x (mortar price multiplier + (number of tubes x 0.5).

8 cm price = 26 tons, the mortar multiplier = 0.1 and DS 4A2 = (2 x 0.5) = 1.0.

MRL Price = 26 x (0.1 + 1.0) = 26 x 1.1 = 28.6 KCr.

Again, the MRL multiplier replaces the mortar multiplier - and multiply, not add: 26,000 x 0.5 multiplier = Cr13,000 per tube, x 2 tubes = 26,000 Cr.

Plus the indirect fire control cost and, if towed, the carriage cost.

When designing MRLs, keep one thing in mind: these aren't like guns, where you can fire off one ranging shot and then take corrections from your forward observer before you unleash hell. Fire an MRL, and they're ALL going (Striker Book 2, Pg 6 again).

If you had ample time to prepare the field - let's say you've been expecting the Russians to roll through the Fulda Gap for the past decade or two and you've planned your fall-back MRL positions and have practice-fired from those positions to pre-range them and establish a pre-arranged set of firing coordinates (a target grid) for artillery - then you could be pretty accurate. Otherwise, everything lands around that first roll of the dice, and that WILL be AT LEAST 15 meters off under the most ideal conditions and with the best possible roll, more likely 40 to 70 meters off, better at high techs and shorter ranges, worse at low techs and longer ranges. You either want your beaten zone to be big enough that the inaccuracy doesn't matter (i.e. lots and lots of tubes), or you want to shoot into an area so target-rich that you'll still do damage even if you're off by that much.

It's not a terribly accurate weapon; avoid using it close to your own troops.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Carlobrand,

Thank you again for your help and providing historical/real world examples of the MRL. I'm familiar with the development of the weapon my hang-up is with ensuring I'm understanding the rules.

MRLs are available at TL 6 and use "the same characteristics as mortars" with certain exceptions - which is to say you design them as if you were designing a mortar except where it says otherwise: crew, the need for multiple tubes and their weight/volume/price, determining the rocket ranges, rate of fire (which is all the tubes at once), and characteristics of the ammunition.

Good, I did get the idea that a MRL is first available at TL 6 and uses the rule set for mortars. Thank-you for answering some of my future questions which when I posted this topic I haven't gotten to yet. Question 1 has been cleared up.

Yes. The MRL is an indirect fire weapon. It's just a bunch of (usually) unguided rockets loaded into a box containing many tubes (or rails, in some cases). You angle it up, launch all the rockets off (usually it's something like one every second or so until the launcher array is empty), and if you got the angle right, they come down where you want them in the world's worst mutha of a sudden and intense artillery barrage. Look up a "Stalin Organ" on Youtube, you'll get a good idea of how they work. Troops exposed to them found them very frightening.

An indirect fire control system is required and the direct fire and point defense fire control systems are not options available to the MRL. Nuts, now I have to edit the spreadsheet some more. Question 2A bites the dust too.

No. Rocket go up, rocket come down; it's an indirect-fire weapon. There might have been cases of them being fired straight on at something really close, but I don't know of them - and that's a pretty desperate ploy considering that all your rockets are going to series off and the target (if it survived the first rocket) will be doing its level best to move out of the firing line before the second and subsequent ones get there. Within the game rules, MRLs are indirect fire only (Striker Book 2, Pg 6).

If you're thinking direct-fire rockets, you're thinking more along the lines of a bazooka, panzerfaust, that kind of thing.

Question 2B has been cleared up which proves I was not thinking clearly otherwise I would have figured out I wasn't talking about a bazooka type weapon and missed the reference in Striker Book 2 that the MRL is an indirect fire weapon.

Yes - see the Katyusha aka "Stalin Organ", the American T-34 Calliope, and the more modern M-270 Multiple-Launch-Rocket-System.

And - I'd have to say no, based on that "same characteristics as mortars" bit and the fact that CPR guns don't need a carriage when vehicle-mounted. However, keep in mind that MRLs have wicked backblast: the MRL is mounted exterior to the vehicle (on the top or in a truck-bed-like arrangement).

Makes for a dandy shoot-and-scoot artillery piece, real hard to hit with counter battery 'cause they've moved on before your barrage hits where they were.

I was leaning toward being able to mount the MRL on a vehicle without the carriage, but wanted to make sure. Unfortunately I haven't found any examples that I can try rebuilding as a test. Yeah, I know that my numbers would probably be off but at least I wouldn't be totally in the dark and on my own.

Two tubes? Your calculations are right, but that's not much as an MRL. Keep in mind that the beaten zone of an artillery barrage is the square root of the number of rounds - 1 makes a 1 by 1, 4 makes a 2 by 2, 9 makes a 3 by 3 and so forth. Your two-shotter is no more effective than a one-shotter. You could use laser guidance at TL 8, but point defense shows up at TL 9 and you'd need at least 9 rounds, ideally more, to have a decent chance of getting through it.

I'm keeping the design as simple as possible while working out the design process. Once I have the sequence down I'll try designing a better MRL.

Why? The vehicle can't move when the MRL's being fired, nor can it be loaded on the move, ergo the driver can double as a loader during the stops. Shoot, scoot, go to the next preplanned launch site, load, repeat.

Best answer is I confusing the weapon crew and the ammo carrier crew requirements, also I was brain dead when I asked about adding the driver to the weapon crew in question 3B.

"Using the same characteristics as mortars with the following exceptions: ...Each tube has a weight multiplier of 0.01." This replaces the mortar weight multiplier of 0.25. So: 0.66 tons x 0.01 is the weight of one tube: 0.0066 tons. Now multiply by number of tubes: 2 x 0.0066 = 0.0132 tons, or 13.2 Kg. It's just a thin-walled tube with maybe a guide track, or sometimes it's just a rail.

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=15416

The way you show makes more sense, but then again I was also using the only example I had which is in the autocannon design sequence. Good thing I asked.

Technically, tube weight x 25, so 0.0132 x 25 = 0.33 m^3 for the two tubes.



Again, the MRL multiplier replaces the mortar multiplier - and multiply, not add: 26,000 x 0.5 multiplier = Cr13,000 per tube, x 2 tubes = 26,000 Cr.

Plus the indirect fire control cost and, if towed, the carriage cost.

When designing MRLs, keep one thing in mind: these aren't like guns, where you can fire off one ranging shot and then take corrections from your forward observer before you unleash hell. Fire an MRL, and they're ALL going (Striker Book 2, Pg 6 again).

If you had ample time to prepare the field - let's say you've been expecting the Russians to roll through the Fulda Gap for the past decade or two and you've planned your fall-back MRL positions and have practice-fired from those positions to pre-range them and establish a pre-arranged set of firing coordinates (a target grid) for artillery - then you could be pretty accurate. Otherwise, everything lands around that first roll of the dice, and that WILL be AT LEAST 15 meters off under the most ideal conditions and with the best possible roll, more likely 40 to 70 meters off, better at high techs and shorter ranges, worse at low techs and longer ranges. You either want your beaten zone to be big enough that the inaccuracy doesn't matter (i.e. lots and lots of tubes), or you want to shoot into an area so target-rich that you'll still do damage even if you're off by that much.

It's not a terribly accurate weapon; avoid using it close to your own troops.

With my weight calculation being wrong everything else is out to lunch which means with your help I'm now on the right track.

When I've got the weight, volume, and cost of the sub-components down correctly my total system characteristics will include the indirect fire control and system costs.

The whole purpose of the MRL is to keep the enemies head down or at least distracted while you do something somewhere. Friendly fire incidents do have a tendency of ruining one's day.

Thanks again for the reply and have a good one.

 

[Carlobrand]

I'm curious why you aren't using tac missiles if you want something in the direct-fire bazooka type role?

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening Carlobrand,

I'm curious why you aren't using tac missiles if you want something in the direct-fire bazooka type role?

I'm working my way through the design sequences and to keep things simple I'm using small numbers.