CT trade system improvements

[far-trader]

Originally posted by boomslang:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
1 - Open end the rolls for passengers and freight a little to allow better ships to attract more of each, to support the idea of the bigger longer range ships. The simple method I've employed for this in MTU is instead of simply one roll per week I make it one roll per week per jump to your announced destination. J1 ships get one roll, J2 ships going J2 get two rolls, J2 ships going J1 get one roll, etc.

Given your mention later on down the post about prohibiting PC Brokers (which is a very reasonable idea, since Travellers would lack the necessary local connections to routinely support lucrative deal-making), this is an excellent place to apply all sorts of PC skills such as Trader (or Steward for passengers, or Bribery for extra cargo opportunities, or Admin, or Carousing, or whatever) in order to get more rolls.

I'd expect this to be sensitive to more than simply jump distance though; "per parsec" rates aside, a Poor world is unlikely to have a lot of cargo and passengers needing Jump-4 transport very often, I would expect -- there's likely to be much more traffic to the Rich or Industrial world Jump-2 away, right? </font>[/QUOTE]I'd not though of it that way, but you're right, a straight distance = more trade doesn't make a lot of sense. Your take starts to sound like a market system, where each world has a certain level of trade with each other world in it's area of trade.

Said area could be dependant on the distances invloved to a degree, the types of goods available for trade, and even the type of systems involved (as in main, tertiary or fringe). What else?

That's maybe more the way to do it, and I suspect it's been done in Gurps but I've not looked at it. Maybe there's a simple way to apply it to CT based on what is usually used. The Pop code and TL, and the standard trade tables and trade codes, but with some mechanic to account for the amount of trade between two systems.

It's been a while since I looked at Book 7 but I don't recall anything like this in it so I'm not sure there's much to gain from it. My memory of the trade system there is it basically took the speculative table and said roll that for each cargo lot from the old freight table. Essentially making all tramp trade speculative if the merchie has the funds or allowing them to simply be the hired hauler for someone else's speculative trade. Or maybe my memory is foggy

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
3 - Change the speculative trade table ...The way it is now one could roll Air/Rafts or Computers for sale at some backwater low tech world with a population of 5 people.

(Edits mine.)

...I have a houserule for this one too: roll Pop or less on 1D in order to be able to sell a speculative cargo on a world (e.g., Pop 4 mainworld, roll 4- on 1D). </font>[/QUOTE]I like that. At first read the other night I wondered about doing it that way for checking to see if there was any speculative trade for sale as well. I later found a flaw in applying it that way but can't recall the problem now

I'm also tempted to do it daily rather than weekly but that might be bending the system too far without some counter balance, maybe through competitive bidding...

How about this:

Buying speculative cargo:

To locate a speculative cargo roll Pop code or less on 1d6 daily. Where Pop code is 6+ roll Pop code -5 for a second speculative cargo on the same day (one is guarnteed each day where Pop code is 6+).

To win the bidding on any speculative cargo the Player must roll against a local Broker. The Player rolls thier bid on the actual value table applying applicable DMs. The Player may instead of rolling set their bid by choosing a number from 2-12. The Referee rolls a bid on the actual value table applying the DM for the maximum broker available. The speculative cargo goes to the highest roll and determines the purchase price. Broker fees and Bribery kickbacks are paid based on the Player offer even if they lose the bidding.

Selling speculative cargo:

To locate a bidder for speculative cargo roll Pop code or less on 1d6 daily. Where Pop code is 6+ roll Pop code -5 for a second bidder on the same speculative cargo (one bidder is guarnteed each day where Pop code is 6+).

Referee rolls the bid(s) applying the Player DMs against the bidder DM based on the best Broker available. Players may accept or decline the bid but must pay thier Broker fees and Bribery kickbacks based on the offer even if they choose not to sell. Where there are two bidders the Referee rolls twice and offers the best (for the Player) bid.

All kind of off the top of my head so there may be some flaws in it. Critique away

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by boomslang:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
1 - Open end the rolls for passengers and freight a little to allow better ships to attract more of each, to support the idea of the bigger longer range ships. The simple method I've employed for this in MTU is instead of simply one roll per week I make it one roll per week per jump to your announced destination. J1 ships get one roll, J2 ships going J2 get two rolls, J2 ships going J1 get one roll, etc.

Given your mention later on down the post about prohibiting PC Brokers (which is a very reasonable idea, since Travellers would lack the necessary local connections to routinely support lucrative deal-making), this is an excellent place to apply all sorts of PC skills such as Trader (or Steward for passengers, or Bribery for extra cargo opportunities, or Admin, or Carousing, or whatever) in order to get more rolls.

I'd expect this to be sensitive to more than simply jump distance though; "per parsec" rates aside, a Poor world is unlikely to have a lot of cargo and passengers needing Jump-4 transport very often, I would expect -- there's likely to be much more traffic to the Rich or Industrial world Jump-2 away, right? </font>[/QUOTE]I'd not though of it that way, but you're right, a straight distance = more trade doesn't make a lot of sense. Your take starts to sound like a market system, where each world has a certain level of trade with each other world in it's area of trade.

Said area could be dependant on the distances invloved to a degree, the types of goods available for trade, and even the type of systems involved (as in main, tertiary or fringe). What else?

That's maybe more the way to do it, and I suspect it's been done in Gurps but I've not looked at it. Maybe there's a simple way to apply it to CT based on what is usually used. The Pop code and TL, and the standard trade tables and trade codes, but with some mechanic to account for the amount of trade between two systems.

It's been a while since I looked at Book 7 but I don't recall anything like this in it so I'm not sure there's much to gain from it. My memory of the trade system there is it basically took the speculative table and said roll that for each cargo lot from the old freight table. Essentially making all tramp trade speculative if the merchie has the funds or allowing them to simply be the hired hauler for someone else's speculative trade. Or maybe my memory is foggy

 

[far-trader]

Originally posted by Black Globe Generator:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by far-trader:
3 - Change the speculative trade table ...The way it is now one could roll Air/Rafts or Computers for sale at some backwater low tech world with a population of 5 people.

(Edits mine.)

...I have a houserule for this one too: roll Pop or less on 1D in order to be able to sell a speculative cargo on a world (e.g., Pop 4 mainworld, roll 4- on 1D). </font>[/QUOTE]I like that. At first read the other night I wondered about doing it that way for checking to see if there was any speculative trade for sale as well. I later found a flaw in applying it that way but can't recall the problem now

I'm also tempted to do it daily rather than weekly but that might be bending the system too far without some counter balance, maybe through competitive bidding...

How about this:

Buying speculative cargo:

To locate a speculative cargo roll Pop code or less on 1d6 daily. Where Pop code is 6+ roll Pop code -5 for a second speculative cargo on the same day (one is guarnteed each day where Pop code is 6+).

To win the bidding on any speculative cargo the Player must roll against a local Broker. The Player rolls thier bid on the actual value table applying applicable DMs. The Player may instead of rolling set their bid by choosing a number from 2-12. The Referee rolls a bid on the actual value table applying the DM for the maximum broker available. The speculative cargo goes to the highest roll and determines the purchase price. Broker fees and Bribery kickbacks are paid based on the Player offer even if they lose the bidding.

Selling speculative cargo:

To locate a bidder for speculative cargo roll Pop code or less on 1d6 daily. Where Pop code is 6+ roll Pop code -5 for a second bidder on the same speculative cargo (one bidder is guarnteed each day where Pop code is 6+).

Referee rolls the bid(s) applying the Player DMs against the bidder DM based on the best Broker available. Players may accept or decline the bid but must pay thier Broker fees and Bribery kickbacks based on the offer even if they choose not to sell. Where there are two bidders the Referee rolls twice and offers the best (for the Player) bid.

All kind of off the top of my head so there may be some flaws in it. Critique away

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by boomslang:
Given your mention later on down the post about prohibiting PC Brokers (which is a very reasonable idea, since Travellers would lack the necessary local connections to routinely support lucrative deal-making), this is an excellent place to apply all sorts of PC skills such as Trader (or Steward for passengers, or Bribery for extra cargo opportunities, or Admin, or Carousing, or whatever) in order to get more rolls.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking - great minds think alike - have one Speculative Trade roll per week per Trader skill-rank; high-pop and industrial each increase the character's effective Trader skill by one for this purpose.

 

[Golan2072]

Originally posted by boomslang:
Given your mention later on down the post about prohibiting PC Brokers (which is a very reasonable idea, since Travellers would lack the necessary local connections to routinely support lucrative deal-making), this is an excellent place to apply all sorts of PC skills such as Trader (or Steward for passengers, or Bribery for extra cargo opportunities, or Admin, or Carousing, or whatever) in order to get more rolls.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking - great minds think alike - have one Speculative Trade roll per week per Trader skill-rank; high-pop and industrial each increase the character's effective Trader skill by one for this purpose.

 

[Ranger]

My one suggestion is to allow double occupancy on Middle Passage:

MP single occupancy 8,000

MP double occupancy 12,000 (6,000 per passanger)

 

[Ranger]

My one suggestion is to allow double occupancy on Middle Passage:

MP single occupancy 8,000

MP double occupancy 12,000 (6,000 per passanger)

 

[rancke]

I got my playtest copy of Interstellar Wars last week and had a look at the trade system this weekend. They've already introduced one of the changes I had in mind, differentiating the type of speculative trade goods available according to trade classification of the world you're on. The goods have been rearranged (and some of them changed), and you modify the first die if the world is non-industrial (-1) or industrial (+1) and the second die if it is non-agricultural (-1) or agricultural (+1). I haven't analysed the differences in detail, but it's nice to see they've thought it through. I think even die-hard CT fans would approve.

Something else I'd like to introduce was some sort of correlation between population size and lot size, but I'm not sure just how to quantify that. After all, it's not just a quation of population size, it's also a question of how many other traders regularily visit that world, and whether it is on a trade route or not.


Hans

 

[rancke]

I got my playtest copy of Interstellar Wars last week and had a look at the trade system this weekend. They've already introduced one of the changes I had in mind, differentiating the type of speculative trade goods available according to trade classification of the world you're on. The goods have been rearranged (and some of them changed), and you modify the first die if the world is non-industrial (-1) or industrial (+1) and the second die if it is non-agricultural (-1) or agricultural (+1). I haven't analysed the differences in detail, but it's nice to see they've thought it through. I think even die-hard CT fans would approve.

Something else I'd like to introduce was some sort of correlation between population size and lot size, but I'm not sure just how to quantify that. After all, it's not just a quation of population size, it's also a question of how many other traders regularily visit that world, and whether it is on a trade route or not.


Hans