CT versus all other editions of Traveller since.Ultimate version was there all along?

[Spaceresearcher]

With most discussions on the COTI forums being in the Classic Traveller category, I'm curious to see how many fellow Travellers honestly wanted all the later rules editions. Personally I thought Megatraveller was a great addition to Traveller, but all rules sets after seem to be suffering from a lack of supporters.

So what I'm curious to know was: 'Do the majority of fellow Travellers feel that the rules have gone full circle to highlight that the ultimate Traveller rules set, is in fact CT and take just the add-on elements that fit with CT for all other rules sets?'

I'm starting to think, it's a full circle cycle and T5 has caused most Travellers I know to want to dive back to the CT system etc. Even a fellow Megatraveller fan, still uses CT rules when MT rules are too much effort.

 

[rancke]

So what I'm curious to know was: 'Do the majority of fellow Travellers feel that the rules have gone full circle to highlight that the ultimate Traveller rules set, is in fact CT and take just the add-on elements that fit with CT for all other rules sets?'

I tinkered with the CT rules almost from the start (3D for 12+ to succeed instead of 2D for 8+ and things like that) and eventually changed to using my own house rules. Back when I started to write adventures for GT, I made an effort to learn the rules. Same with T20 (though I never managed to finish the T20 adventure I was working on) and currently I'm playtesting an MgT adventure. But for running a campaign just for my own sake, I'd still use my house rules. None of the Traveller rules versions are adequate to my needs. Certainly not CT. If I HAD to run a by-the-book Traveller campaign, I'd go with MgT.

But really, all I want from Traveller is the Third Imperium setting.


Hans

 

[mike wightman]

I tend to cherry pick from what I think are the best bits from the various rules incarnations and then add the odd house rule to try it out.

Keeping it simple seems to work the best so I keep the skill list to a minimum, use a simple task system, and use armour as damage dice reduction.

I'm currently play testing two task systems - the first is a 2d vs 2d flux like system to see if it will work with T5. The other is a fate inspired d6 dice pool assembled from various sources and keep the best 2 to determines success and the next best as an affect die.

 

[Enoff]

I would agree, I really don't think all the extra minutia rules added anything, except making it impossible to roleplay. Think of the amount of time people have to devote to understanding this game! Its only strange people like ourselves who frequent this board that have taken the time to have some small understanding of this game. I find the development of the Traveller Universe to be more interesting than extra rules.

 

[aramis]

With most discussions on the COTI forums being in the Classic Traveller category, I'm curious to see how many fellow Travellers honestly wanted all the later rules editions. Personally I thought Megatraveller was a great addition to Traveller, but all rules sets after seem to be suffering from a lack of supporters.

What I was using in CT:
I was allowing roll-then-pick-table to get slightly more choice in CGen
I was using AHL/Striker combat, with the following Pen-AV roll table:

2-4	no pen
5	1d
6	2d
7	3d
8	4d
9	6d
10	8d
11	10d
12	12d
+1	+4d

I was using the DGP-CT Task System from the moment I read it in TD8
I was mounting striker weapons on starships.
I was using only Bk1 & S4 character gen because of the imbalance with Bk4-7 characters, even with the death rule enforced.
I was using Bk3 trade, but with Bk7 roll-for-lots mode.
I was using Bk6 gen when I bothered rolling up new systems.

So, for me, MT was a smoother way of doing what I was already doing. It was pretty close to the cleanup I wanted in 1987

 

[Vladika]

Since you asked...:devil:

I much prefer CT WITH cherry picking from other versions. (Must not radically alter a CT design.)

Oddly enough T5 has a lot of CT inherent in ship designs. Now, it is very different in many ways, I'll not ague that, but the "flavor" is CT again.

T5 fixed the computer size/weight issues (You can have a supercomputer, with little ability to effectively use, or controls literally everywhere on the ship). Also, back to Drive tables, BUT, ganging drives was long overdue. Bridges, while there, are far more reasonable in size.

The build-out for accommodations is very superior. Possibilities exist for total luxury, as well as very cramped and crowded military ships. (Steerage is actually more cost effective than Low Births.)

There was a "LBB@" that some of our nefarious, and infamous, members came up with that I both "cherry pick" from, and STRONGLY advocate for inclusion into T5. (The shop, galley, recreation, etc. I use them, with permanent additional crew to man them, allowing a "+1" on related die roles. No added electrician in the electrical shop; no bonus.)

For most everything else, CT always will be my choice.

 

[Baron]

CT was all I ever needed. I rejected Mega, and ignored all that came after.

Certainly I tweak CT, as I do most every rpg I run. I am not a fan of crunch.

And I love the 3rd Imperium.

 

[GypsyComet]

With most discussions on the COTI forums being in the Classic Traveller category, I'm curious to see how many fellow Travellers honestly wanted all the later rules editions. Personally I thought Megatraveller was a great addition to Traveller, but all rules sets after seem to be suffering from a lack of supporters.

So what I'm curious to know was: 'Do the majority of fellow Travellers feel that the rules have gone full circle to highlight that the ultimate Traveller rules set, is in fact CT and take just the add-on elements that fit with CT for all other rules sets?'

I'm starting to think, it's a full circle cycle and T5 has caused most Travellers I know to want to dive back to the CT system etc. Even a fellow Megatraveller fan, still uses CT rules when MT rules are too much effort.

One thing to keep in mind regarding your opening statement is that this forum was created following the crash of T4 for the express purpose of creating T20. Most of T4's important discussions were elsewhere and before this forum existed. T20 was a completely different critter and wasn't going to catch on with the old crowd. GURPS Traveller has its own home at SJG, and Mongoose Traveller has its own home at Mongoose. You won't see a lot of traffic for either here. TNE fans founded their own spaces in the wake of the Edition Wars of the early 90s and are still there.

Secondly, this forum is where a lot of the TML expats end up, so it is heavily weighted toward pre-TNE acceptance and against most everything else.

The upshot is that you are asking a population that is going to confirm your thesis, and accidentally excluding much of the dissenting opinion.

 

[Golan2072]

Personally my favorite versions of Traveller are Classic Traveller and its official retro-clone, Mongoose Traveller. I think that the first three books of CT (or The Traveller Book, which is a consolidated and improved version of them) are an excellent RPG, very rules-light yet quite sophisticated, though they do have several holes in them (especially the lack of any detailed vehicle combat rules). I also prefer the simplicity implied by the three-book CT over the much more complex nature of later CT books, not to mention MT and TNE.

 

[Vargas]

I think that the Traveller buying public wanted the successive editions because it kept the game in print and "supported". It didn't want to see its favorite game disappear.

I also think that any game that goes through successive editions over 37 years will see fewer supporters of the later editions simply because they already own what they consider serviceable versions of the game. I am personally quite happy with CT as I own all of it in various media and simply don't see the need to spend more money to get what I essentially already have.

 

[BillDowns]

Since you asked...:devil:
...
There was a "LBB@" that some of our nefarious, and infamous, members came up with that I both "cherry pick" from, and STRONGLY advocate for inclusion into T5. (The shop, galley, recreation, etc. I use them, with permanent additional crew to man them, allowing a "+1" on related die roles. No added electrician in the electrical shop; no bonus.)

These rules perhaps?
http://www.the-children-of-earth.org/CTRdl1.html

http://home.comcast.net/~steveosmanski/Book2_small_craft_design_system.htm

 

[robject]

I tend to cherry pick from what I think are the best bits from the various rules incarnations and then add the odd house rule to try it out.

Keeping it simple seems to work the best so I keep the skill list to a minimum, use a simple task system, and use armour as damage dice reduction.

I tend to listen when Mike speaks, because he seems to do things in ways I like. Like Mike, I too pick and choose from what works best for me. Unlike Mike, that means that most of my gaming rules are now Traveller5. But at one time it was all CT, then mostly CT, then half, and so on. Lots of reasons for this, some of them not purely rules-based.

 

[Baron]

I like that modified chargen document. Thanks for the link.

 

[Vladika]

These rules perhaps?
http://www.the-children-of-earth.org/CTRdl1.html

http://home.comcast.net/~steveosmanski/Book2_small_craft_design_system.htm

Exactly! Thanks for posting the links. I'm sure many people will at least like to look them over.

 

[snrdg082102]

Howdy all,

My start in RPGs was with D&D until I discovered the first three Traveller LBBs which started my collection of Traveller in all forms. When I couldn't get Traveller I began picking up other science fiction gaming systems like BattleTech, Renegade Legion, Star Trek, and Albedo to name a couple.

My main system to design starship's, spaceships, and small craft is CT Book 5 HG2 with add-ons from MT, TNE, GT, and T20. Unfortunately, about the time I got started with comparing Mongoose Traveller the real world diverted my attention.

So I guess I'd be more in the CT house since that was the one I actually gamed in and got to know the Red Shirt syndrome first hand.

Thanks Bill Brown for the links.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

It's fascinating to read and what brought the question to mind was a friend way back in high school who didn't like Megatraveller or TNE and declared CT was the best.

It's amazing to read and perhaps why Traveller has stayed predominantly 'third Emperium' and CT with add-ons is because that's how most Traveller's like it.

I've always been amazed that with all the editions, they all pretty much support the third emperium. The shattered and virus era's are scarce in the popularity dept and just look at T4, hardly any interest at all.

Well so far it looks like CT(with add-ons) is the ultimate Traveller it would seem.

 

[aramis]

It's fascinating to read and what brought the question to mind was a friend way back in high school who didn't like Megatraveller or TNE and declared CT was the best.

It's amazing to read and perhaps why Traveller has stayed predominantly 'third Emperium' and CT with add-ons is because that's how most Traveller's like it.

I've always been amazed that with all the editions, they all pretty much support the third emperium. The shattered and virus era's are scarce in the popularity dept and just look at T4, hardly any interest at all.

Well so far it looks like CT(with add-ons) is the ultimate Traveller it would seem.

Honestly, I think the issue is far more where the question was posted.

To be honest, CT players and GM's tend to be a bit more vocal overall on COTI than fans of other editions.

If you were to ask it on RPGG, SJG, or several others, you'd get a somewhat different view.

Most of the CT to MT convert players and refs I've talked to over the years (going back to the WWIVnet era) didn't embrace the Rebellion; most retained the pre-rebellion setting.

 

[mike wightman]

Each different incarnation of Traveller has its pros and cons. The popularity of CT is probably due to its simplicity overall and its focus on making stuff up. There was no official setting when I started other than the vague hints in LBB4 and the implied setting of the core rules. Referees made up their own universes to play in, or adapting settings from books and TV/cinema.

My favourite official settings for Traveller are Hard Times and TNE, not the CT golden age (I prefer the darker proto-Traveller version of this era)

I had great fun running a War of the Ancients campaign, and i am looking forward to getting started on my Rule of Man campaign.

The era that really fascinates me though is the Long Night, I think that era had loads of scope for adventuring.

Rules wise CT + cherry picking + house rules, although I have happily run OTU/MTU using BRP, Aftermath, Space Opera, White Wolf and EABA.

I like to play around with the Traveller rules, and I like to play around with the setting(s).

 

[shadowcat20]

Got into CT in the late 70's early 80's. It has always been my standard.

Ignored Mega and the rest as just reprints with out really looking at them.

Never got into GURP's and saw Mongoose as just reinventing the wheel.

T20 hit my interest and I liked where it was going as far as combat and skills went.

Got an early "In work " version of T5 and thought it was great for ideas and filling out a CT/T20 game. My version is a year or two old so have no clue how the finished product ended up.

So...got everything CT in print or on disk and saw no reason to buy the other versions. Also I LIKE the old pre rebellion/vampire fleet (shudder) settings. Just also happen to like T20 rules in the same CT setting.

 

[tinker123]

Started playing when CT was new, and loved it. The subsequent editions changed both rules and settings, and while some rules were interesting and useful, the changed settings did not appeal as much. So far T5 is all rules, and could become an ultimate edition when T5.1 comes out. I'm still hoping.