Details of Hiver-Humaniti early contact?

[Sturn]

I'm at a loss trying to find detailed information on early contact between Humaniti and the Hivers. It seems there must be something sinister that occurred and the Hivers have deleted any historical records. o:

I've gone through CT sources, Gurps sources, and MT sources referencing the Hivers. I don't have a TNE book that mentioned Hivers, but I'm assuming it wouldn't give many details about early Hiver-Human contact. There may be something indirect in a non-specifically Hiver source that I have missed.

The only thing I have come up with so far is a date. Solomani-Hiver first contact in -1802. This is from CT's Alien Module 6 on the Solomani in a timeline. No details just a date. DGP's MT book on the Solomani & Aslan repeats this date, but again no details.

My reason for the information is for a campaign (Terran Dawn) set around -400 in the Solomani Rim. I'm trying to get an idea of what those in the Solomani Rim during the Long Night would know about the Hivers. First contact was just before the Long Night struck in -1776, only 26 years later. If first contact was a relatively unnoticed incident (a free trader encountered Hivers, but the information was over-shadowed by the events of the coming Long Night), very little might be known about the Hivers. If it was a major event, much more information might be known in the Solomani Rim, but still little contact during the Long Night.

There is a reference in DGP's MT Solomani & Aslan that mentions the Hivers purchasing a tract of land in Australia. No date is given. It might be a stretch if I assumed Hivers set up this enclave before the Long Night. Perhaps they were there early on, but later expanded by purchasing land to set up a trade market for their imported technology once trade lines were opened?

An entry in my campaign guide so far:

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Hivers were contacted only 26 years before the Long Night officially began. Initially great attention was given to this contact with another interstellar race. But, this was quickly over-shadowed by the growing problems within the Rule of Man, and thus it did not get the follow-up attention it deserved before the Long Night fell. [/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Hivers are currently given little thought within the Rim and the typical citizen of the Old Earth Union would not recognize the race without first doing a media search. Little was known about the Hivers before communications ground to a halt during the Long Night. A person searching for more information might find that upon contact Hivers held sway over an interstellar federation and the Hivers had been engaged in a lengthy war with another interstellar race centuries before contact with the Rule of Man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The Hivers did succeed in setting up a very small nest-enclave on the east coast of Australia on Terra just as the Long Night set in. Descendants of these Hivers are still in place. It is unknown if the enclave had a long-term purpose in mind and certainly they have been cut-off from any communication with their distant homeland (evil grin). The Hivers are viewed by the locals as a beast-like race of low sentience due to their appearance and lack of extended communications with them.[/FONT]​

 

[Gruffty]

Hehehe! Welcome to my world! I have been trying to find canon asnwers to some of those questions about Teh Hivorz for over 20 years!

I think I have some more information tucked away in one of my piles of Hiver-related files. I will see what I can come up with - specifically, I remember reading somewhere *why* the Hivers bought that land in Oz.....

 

[Sturn]

I think I have some more information tucked away in one of my piles of Hiver-related files. I will see what I can come up with - specifically, I remember reading somewhere *why* the Hivers bought that land in Oz.....

Thanks for anything you find. I have my fingers crossed that my plans for an enclave of Hivers are not upset by new information. It creates a possible Hiver conspiracy theory option for future adventures. The enclave could be an observation post of sorts without any of the locals realizing just how intelligent the strange beasties are. Edit: Just a few nests, a small nearly unseen community, with the "several hundred-thousand acre tract of land" being purchased centuries later with the coming of the 3rd Imperium and open trading contact so the Hivers could, "distribute their cutting-edge electronic devices).

 

[Whipsnade]

Sturn,

I should think that anything you and Gruffty can come up regarding Human-Hiver first contact would be eagerly received.

Sundry comments regarding the same:

• The Long Night start date of -1776 is something historians came up with well after the actual period. It's a date generally agreed upon, like the fall of the Western Roman Empire being pegged at 476 CE, and not the date of some catastrophic event that had people at the time throwing their hands in the air and shouting "The Long Night has begun!"
• There are human worlds in the Hive Federation during the Classic and TNE eras. It may be worthwhile for you to compare and contrast the Classic Era Federation map in the Hiver AM and the -2204 Terran Confederation settlement map in the Solomani AM.
• The previously mentioned map also shows the spinward border of the Hive Federation in -2204.
• I would be hesitant to have the Hivers purchasing the Australian land for the enclave mentioned in S&A very soon after -1802 and then maintaining that enclave for three thousand years until it is mentioned during the Rebellion period. A more plausible story would have the enclave date from not long after the Old Earth Union's admission to the Imperium when the Hiver embassy/business personnel in question would feel somewhat safer under the protection of the largest extent human polity and one not noted for racial intolerance.

Whatever you eventually do come up with, please share it with us.


Regards,
Bill

 

[DonM]

Actually, from the DGP notes (sigh) and a discussion with James Holden, the purchase by the Hivers is noted as *present day* (TD #13?), and was intended to mean post-Solomani Rim War.

Gruffty: If you've got better notes...

I really wish I could share. Hmm... anyone ever track James Holden down?

 

[Sturn]

Thanks for the suggestions.

....<snip>....It may be worthwhile for you to compare and contrast the Classic Era Federation map in the Hiver AM and the -2204 Terran Confederation settlement map in the Solomani AM.

I did this. The -2204 map (just before foundating of Rule of Man) shows several "Terran settlements outside the Confederation". Several of these in the Hinterlands and Neworld are only around a sector from the Hive Federation. It's almost a stretch that first contact didn't come until -1802. So perhaps this is a major contact date with independent traders having made contact previously (such as with the K'kree contact date). By the end of the Rule of Man around 3 decades later, I think Hivers would have been known to at least portions of the Rule of Man.

I would be hesitant to have the Hivers purchasing the Australian land for the enclave mentioned in S&A very soon after -1802 and then maintaining that enclave for three thousand years until it is mentioned during the Rebellion period.

Agreed, I was trying....

Actually, from the DGP notes (sigh) and a discussion with James Holden, the purchase by the Hivers is noted as *present day* (TD #13?), and was intended to mean post-Solomani Rim War.

...and so it's settled.

So it seems the Hivers should have been known by at least the government and some portions of the Rule of Man just before its collapse. A large enclave was not purchased until much, much later within the 3rd Imperium. Since Humaniti was on the doorstep of the Hive Federation centuries before the Long Night, it could easily be assumed some Hivers could have made it all of the way to Terra itself by the end of the Long Night. Just not in large numbers. There may be a nest or two someplace near Terra. The large trading enclave was set up much later, so that implies there wasn't any significant, organized trade before then. Perhaps only free traders.

So what am I left with for the Rim during the Long Night? Distant memories of initial contact betweent the governments of the Rule of Man and Hive Federation just before the Long Night. Possible trader or explorer contact a couple centuries or so before this. Hivers thus are easily documented and known as an important interstellar civilization to trailing. Just not much recent in the ways of news due to the break-down of communications during the Long Night. Hivers could have found their way to the Rim during the Long Night in small numbers. Perhaps a secretive or even known nest someplace. Encountering a Hiver on the Terran streets during this time would probably be extremely rare at best. While some humans may run screaming, someone educated might be able to say, "Hey that's no monster its a Hiver".

Thoughts?

 

[Staberinde]

I mentioned this elsewhere but...

Look at the dates.

Solomani first contact with Hivers.

Gene War.

Keep looking at them.

IMTU the Hivers manipulated the Solomani into creating supermen before society was ready for them. That led to the Gene War. Which led to the collapse of the Second Imperium. Which led to the Solomani Movement.

One manipulation that brought down an empire and poisoned Solomani culture so much, it would never get anywhere near a position where it could threaten the Hive Federation.

Now. What if someone found out the truth?

 

[Gruffty]

I think I have some more information tucked away in one of my piles of Hiver-related files. I will see what I can come up with - specifically, I remember reading somewhere *why* the Hivers bought that land in Oz.....

the purchase by the Hivers is noted as *present day* (TD #13?)

Correct, page 6, TD13 states the adventure in which the Hiver enclave is mentioned is dated 356-1106.

and was intended to mean post-Solomani Rim War.

That's certainly how I read it, in both the book and TD13.

Gruffty: If you've got better notes...

..I wished, Don, I wished! :rofl:

A group of Hivers raised enough money to purchase several hundred thousand acres on the east coast 01 Australia. and have set up a Hiver enclave there, complete with the wilderness necessary to allow Hiver larvae to mature. The Hivers are well tolerated by the humans on Terra, because the enclave is a good source of inexpensive high-technology electronics. This goodwill might not exist if the humans knew of the Hiver propensity to manipulate "younger races into "adulthood". (These manipulations play no part in this adventure, although you could certainly add one in for a side plot; for an example of a manipulation, see Adventure 8 of the Travellers' Digest.)

Bah, OK, so it doesn't tell us *why* Teh Hivorz bought the land in Oz. I thought it did, but I am clearly wrong - sorry guys

 

[Sturn]

Thanks for the help folks. I've gotten rid of the Hiver enclave on Terra during the end of the Long Night. I did move a small "nest" hidden nearby though. :devil:

 

[Gray Lensman]

Bah, OK, so it doesn't tell us *why* Teh Hivorz bought the land in Oz.

The more they study us the better they can manipulate us, trade in high tech electronics is just their "cover" :smirk: