Detection Signatures

[Antony]

Just a quick query, does anyone remember how to calculate the signature modifiers for FF&S1 vehicles. I have just done a whole bunch of TL9 grav vehicles (basically enough vehicles to do a TOE for my United Worlds Commonwealth, I will post them shortly to www.skaran.net) but I seem to be overlooking how to work this out, though I once must have known.

Note that this is Signature not the Difficulty Mods v fire

 

[TheDS]

The answer should be right next to that one you provided, but I don't have my books handy atm. I seem to recall them being in the same place, since they were calculated at the same time, right? The tables were nearly identicle too.

If you're looking for something a little more detailed, though, maybe you're thinking of the advanced sensor system rules that were bolted onto T4 (and not in the books)?

 

[Antony]

That could be it. Like you my books are not immediately to hand so I'll dig them out and see if those signatures are listed there as well.

 

[Judas]

Just out of curiousity, where would I find the "advanced sensor system rules that were bolted onto T4"???

 

[mike wightman]

Have a look at this site:

http://traveller.mu.org/house/

 

[Judas]

Another question...

Why have I not seen anyone else think of using MAD or SQUIDs to detect either Starships or Ground vehicles.

The Magnetic field required to contain a fusion reactor would be ENORMOUS. a Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) or a Superconducting Quantum Interference Device (SQUID) to detect starships or ground vehicles.

This has been a technology that I have included in the re-write of Striker that I have been doing (In addition to the other forms of passive detection that have been suggested (Gravitic Anomaly Detectors, Neutrino Detectors, and so on).

In addition to being able to detect fluctuations in Magnetic fields. the SQUID at close enough range can actually read the code right out of a computer by tracking the changes in electrical charges in the cicuitry. SQUIDs are also one of the technologies that are used in addition to MRI and PET (Positron Emission Tomography) that will allow us to acutally read the mind of a person with the next 15 to 20 years. The SQUID will be able to detect neurological actitiy down to the level of individual electrons when its resolution improves another few orders of magnetude (Same with the PET scan)...

The PET scan is another very powerful detetion method, but is an active sensor that picks up changes in electrical charges. In effect, it would pick up operating electronics.

Having said all of that, is there some reason that MAd and SQUID technology have not been incorporated in Traveller's passive detection sensors yet? It is VERY hard to hide large magnetic fields, especially those that are more powerful that a planetray field (MRIs, and current Fusion research reaction chambers create magnetic fields on the order of five to 1,000 times that of the Earth. Needless to say, they are extremely easy to detect)... It would be pretty hard to shield a magnetic field of that size without creating some other form of displacement that would be detectable (Mass detectors for instance that could pick up any very dense materials used to mask such magnetic fields - that would essentially be a Gravitic detector, which is simply a "Mass Detector")...

There seem to be pretty conspicuous in their absence.

 

[Antony]

Have you looked at the sensors in both MT and TNE/FF&S1?

Wouldn't the MAD sensor be part of the Passive EMS array system on TL10+ vessels?

The densitometer appears to detect mass as well as be able to penetrate to give density maps of objects. The closer it is to the target the better the detail. It can also detect artificial gravity fields.

Neutrino sensors are in both MT and TNE, they can not only detect nuclear reactions they can tell you what type, fission, fusion, ant-matter.

Neural activity sensors are also in both these versions of the game

The main differences in MT anf TNE is that in MT the densitometer and neutrino sensors can be used in combat, in TNE they appear to have been downgraded to astronomical instruments. IMTU they can still be used as they were in MT.

The PET scanner sounds like it is part of the Active EMS array.

 

[Judas]

A PET scanner is a VERY active sensor array, much like an MRI it creates huge distrubances in an EM field to create an image...

I will have to go and do some more looking at MT and TNE. I have little experience with them, and I am happy to hear that they have a few of these sensors... I think that the "Neural sensors" described may be SQUIDs, as they are the most promising tehcnology for the distance detection of neurological activity. I have currently seen them used to track the actual neurological activity from primary brain impulse to the movement5 of a limb. With a bit more resolution they will be able to actually track individual "thoughts" in incredible detail (They can already do so in a low resolution - area of the brain, number of neurons, etc.).

They are also useful for reading the information in computer systems; similar to Van Eck Phreaking being able to read what is on a monitor by reading the electrical impulses. SQUIDs do the same thing, but to the actual memory reigsters in a computer. It can read the state of each bit, and thus construct the software that is running (or stored) in active RAM or ROM...

I think that perhaps the TLs are a bit high for some of the tech though (That is my main complaint about most of Traveller's systems. They really underestimated several developments)

 

[mike wightman]

What's the range of a PET scanner, or an MRI scanner etc. in the real world?

Not much use at ship combat ranges...

Could they work at distance?

 

[Ptah]

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
What's the range of a PET scanner, or an MRI scanner etc. in the real world?

Not much use at ship combat ranges...

Could they work at distance?

Short answer, yes they can work at a "distance" (10 meters)today it just depends on what resolution you want. You won't get images good enough for medical purposes. Looking fo a weapon, OK, looking for where a tumor is for radiation pellet implants, not OK.

The bigest complicating factor is target movement. Extensive algorithms, and keeping the target as still as possible permit the resolution. Senistivity of detectors is another. Increase computer power (e.g. quantum computers) and dectector sensitivity and the range can be increased and the system applied to moving targets.

 

[mike wightman]

So three light seconds...?

I suppose it could work, this is sci-fi

 

[Ran Targas]

Just remember guys that any active sensor is detectable around 2 to 3 times its effective distance. In RW warfare, active sensors are normally only utilized out of absolute necessity; subs rely almost entirely on passive sonar to develop firing solutions and the Aegis weapon system only illuminate targetted aircraft with fire control radar when its SAM is seconds from impact.

 

[Judas]

Ptah, you would only need the resolution of the sensor if you wanted an absolute positive ID of WHAT the detected target was.

SQUIDs are a better battlefield sensor than PET scans. They both look for basically the same thing, but SQUIDs are a passive sensor...

 

[mike wightman]

So I'll ask again, what is the real world range of these things, how big are they, and could they, with sci-fi handwavium, be made to work at ship combat ranges?

 

[TheDS]

I wouldn't put much stock in being able to read what's in a computer's memory at any range greater than a millimeter, and even then, that's a big stretch. I'd have to SEE it myself.

The monitor-at-a-distance trick is doable because he knows what freqs a monitor operates at and can therefore shortcut what needs to be detected. Even so, the range isn't like miles, it's like feet, and can easily be masked or interfered with.

Your MAD idea would probably not work because the detecting ship itself is putting out a MUCH MUCH larger magnetic field itself compared to what it's trying to detect. When you've got a signal nearby that's 20-30 orders of magnitude greater than the one you're trying to detect... well, let's just say it's not gonna be easy. (It's also a good reason why neutrino sensors won't work, nevermind how hard it is to detect neutrinos in the first place.) MAD works with aircraft because they are made with mostly non-ferrous material and subs are made with mostly ferrous material, but of course sub-designers are working around that too, and MAD isn't nearly as useful against more modern subs.

GAD would potentially be the same thing as a densitometer, in Trav terms. I myself can't really buy that whole "you get detailed deck plans" bit, but they should be able to spot an object within a few hexes if you're surrounded by space. That's my take on it, anyway. Again, not terribly useful compared to EM.