T5 Only: Do you like T5?

[Thoom]

I'm not sure how to change my vote. I decided to wait until the next errata, at least, to start working on T5 again. I like it. A lot. But it's been a year since I've had the book and I need to read it with the errata open and a web browser with the errata thread and it's not productive at the moment. I cannot wrap my mind around it all as it is at the moment.

I'll wait for the errata, and perhaps an adventure module to help me get started.

 

[Supplement Four]

Wow....there's an "unvote" button, now.

Interesting.

 

[Quint]

I was sorely disappointed by T5. When I received my Kickstarter copy, I couldn't believe what the final product ended up being. I browsed through it, and kept wondering to myself, where is the roleplaying game in this? It seemed like such a poorly organized, bloated, technical document devoid of fun.

Yup, this pretty much sums up my reaction. There are bits and pieces that I like, but finding them was harder than it should have been (and I'm not simply talking about the utter lack of organization...)

I was really disappointed - if it was a game it would be what I'm getting ready to run. Instead it's a badly organized mass of many rules that I will never need or want. The T5 rulebook really needed to be two rulebooks (Player Guide and Referee Guide), plus a special supplement for the *Makers.

D.

 

[savage]

Yup, this pretty much sums up my reaction. There are bits and pieces that I like, but finding them was harder than it should have been (and I'm not simply talking about the utter lack of organization...)

I was really disappointed - if it was a game it would be what I'm getting ready to run. Instead it's a badly organized mass of many rules that I will never need or want. The T5 rulebook really needed to be two rulebooks (Player Guide and Referee Guide), plus a special supplement for the *Makers.

D.

Players guide is in development per kickstarter.

 

[Vladika]

Players guide is in development per kickstarter.

While I'm happy to hear it, it doesn't invalidate any of the complaints about T5.

Now we get to pay twice for what should have been right the first time? And the first was funded 11 times over. (Marc's published numbers.)

And will this one get edited properly? Or the same old same old for the last 37 years?

 

[Supplement Four]

Now we get to pay twice for what should have been right the first time?

Exactly. I'd like for T5 to work. The reason I sound bitter is that I'm so disappointed in something I thought would be great--or at least "pretty good".

I don't think I'm going to like being asked to buy a book that will be necessary to make sense of the book on which I already spent $75 bucks.

 

[savage]

While I'm happy to hear it, it doesn't invalidate any of the complaints about T5.

Now we get to pay twice for what should have been right the first time? And the first was funded 11 times over. (Marc's published numbers.)

And will this one get edited properly? Or the same old, same old for the last 37 years?

I don't know the player rules details. I've just said on the board, getting the errata or a pdf of the original with errata fixes would be nice. I think T5 has great potential. IMO most kickstarters need better planning.

IMO, the development team was too small for T5. Having a small group receives the PDF for review and editing before the release is helpful. Even with a large staff at GDW they had to aggressive schedules for adequate reviews. But let's face it. It looked like Andrew was in on this project and he passed in the middle of it.

 

[Drakon]

And the first was funded 11 times over. (Marc's published numbers.)

Please remember, that just because Marc's kickstarter grossed 11 times the expected amount, doesn't mean he got all that money.

Kickstarter takes about 40 to 50 percent off the top, After the publisher and shipping take their cut, there is also taxes.

And on top of all that, consider the fact that Marc gave his word to sign each and every copy, his doctor bills for restoring his writing hand probably ate up whatever was left.

 

[rancke]

Please remember, that just because Marc's kickstarter grossed 11 times the expected amount, doesn't mean he got all that money.

It doesn't?

Kickstarter takes about 40 to 50 percent off the top

Kickstarter gets 40 to 50 percent of the money pledged?!?`Is that a documented feature?

After the publisher and shipping take their cut...

No, that's a part of the cost of the product Marc is buying. As such, it would also be part of the original goal. (As would Kickstarter's cut, whatever it may be).

...there is also taxes.

Now that I can believe. But US income taxes are not all that big, are they?

And on top of all that, consider the fact that Marc gave his word to sign each and every copy, his doctor bills for restoring his writing hand probably ate up whatever was left.

I doubt that.

Note that I did not participate in the Kickstarter, so I have no Denebian Slime Devil in this fight.


Hans

 

[atpollard]

No, that's a part of the cost of the product Marc is buying. As such, it would also be part of the original goal. (As would Kickstarter's cut, whatever it may be).

Now that I can believe. But US income taxes are not all that big, are they?

Hans

I have no comment on the other statements (I plead ignorance), but on these two statements, I offer:

1. Selling 11 times as many pledges as the target goal means that he generated 11 times as much gross revenue, but also needed to print 11 times as many books (and other swag). So whatever his marginal profit was, Marc probably earned about 11 times what he would have ... but his 'share' was probably a lot less than the total revenue generated.

2. I pay around 15% in Federal Personal Income Tax with about 25% being the national average and 35% or so typical for the mid six figure salary crowd. I don't know what is typical for a business.

 

[Spartan159]

Players guide is in development per kickstarter.

Can you please link this? I can not find it.

 

[aramis]

Re: Player's Guide
I believe it was in the updates posted. It may or may not be a separate product, and there isn't a second kickstarter open.

 

[savage]

Re: Player's Guide
I believe it was in the updates posted. It may or may not be a separate product, and there isn't a second kickstarter open.

Yes. That is what i recall. People kept asking about it.

 

[RossWinn]

Completion...

While I very much enjoy the spirit of T5 I am not convinced that the game is complete. I think it is a lovely toolkit for Mongoose Traveller.

 

[Quint]

While I very much enjoy the spirit of T5 I am not convinced that the game is complete. I think it is a lovely toolkit for Mongoose Traveller.

ROFL! Yeah, not a bad way to look at it in many ways.

D.

 

[rich4421972]

ROFL! Yeah, not a bad way to look at it in many ways.

D.

I really like it but it's hard to support it without understanding what it was "meant" to be. In other words, I believe that the moot members who helped create it should be thrilled with what they've done. I was not a moot member and was not able to grasp the greatest things (the makers, the game mechanics, the artwork, genetics, clones and etc) until I had read the book cover-to-cover and read all internet forums referring to the subject of T5.

There have been a lot of outright haters as well as tentative fans hoping for the best. I consider myself a fan hoping for the best --and getting it.

If anything, I wish there was more support for playing the game than discussion of errata and omissions/clarifications.

 

[Chuck Anumia]

And the complaints I've been seeing revolve around three big issues: the task system, the absolute lack of examples, and the organization not making sense to people.

I voted "OK"

This quote seems to sum up my complaints as well as any other comments in this thread.
Thanks
Chuck

 

[robject]

If anything, I wish there was more support for playing the game than discussion of errata and omissions/clarifications.

While I agree with your sentiment, most of us want to play a game, not test it. I am content to do both at the same time, and occasionally that's the best way to find out whether something works or is broken. And, I like what Marc has done, even though I am glad that Don is there to work thru the errata with him, and I'm as impatient as the next guy to see the edited version.

 

[Quint]

I think that root of my problem with T5 (other than errata and poor organization) is that while the minigames inherent in the rules are often things I enjoy, it actually added minigames that I pretty actively dislike and feel like they constrain me as a GM rather than add to my ability to run the game.

So, CharGen is a minigame I like, I like expanded CharGen because it gives more detail and I could care less about "more powerful characters" - this literally makes no sense to me a game with starship weaponry...

Planet/SystemGen minigame, I can have fun with this and it helps me as a GM add cool detail and stimulates my own creativity. It is also relatively intrinsic to the game.

Ship/VehicleGen, this is something that I have cared for less and less over the years as the rules have become more and more complicated. I don't begrudge the people who enjoy it at all, and see it's place in the game.

Trade, something that is relatively intrinsic to the setting, makes a decent minigame, and even if it isn't exactly something I would spend a bunch of time doing I have players who will - and it can stimulate my own creativity as I try to make sense of random rolls, or just simply come up descriptive content during play.

But the *Makers for Guns, Armor, Animals, whatever - these are minigames that "make work for me" rather than stimulating my creative juices. Now, for the people that love this level of gearheadedness, more power to them - but I realized how much this is not what I enjoy doing.

Basically the further that a minigame takes me away from interacting with players the less interested I am.

D.

 

[spinwardpirate]

I ran it, and had plenty of fun with it. The dice mechanics worked well for me, since they sort of reminded me of one of my favorite old school games (Melee/Wizard/TFT used increasing difficulties tied to increasing number of dice).