In my gaming group we always assumed rules from LLB4:Mercenary page 28 (Experience and morale) appled here...
CT Only: Do you use morale?
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In my gaming group we always assumed rules from LLB4:Mercenary page 28 (Experience and morale) appled here...
Understand: Morale failure need not be "runs away." (exception: beasts passing the flee check)
It can be as simple as holing up in cover and not firing back.
Badenov
SOC-12
This ^ is a bit more than taking cover and not firing back. I understand that not every game system has the same list of effects of morale failure, but this one specific game absolutely has people running away to take cover and cower. My personal opinion is that is how the authors of the game would react in the situation. I do not think most professional soldiers, and even recent draftees, would react that way, and the quoted TNs for various forces bear that out a little:
But this means that 1 in 12 veterans will turn tail and run away and cower if someone takes a serious wound. And half the regulars. Evidence from RL conflicts suggest these numbers are wildly high and that even draftees hold it together under fire better than the designers of the game system predicted.
Also
So, this is not one check for the group, this is every individual rolling the dice. The most recent conflicts had TV news embedded with soldiers, and we saw none of this.
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
While I do use it, I tend to use my own system for Morale.
For player characters, I determine Morale as 1D6 + (points for medals and Combat Service Ribbon class events[since CSRs are not granted in some services])
So, a PC can have a Morale above 15.
My NPCs get written with Morales appropriate to the organization they come from and quality they are supposed to represent.
I then determine the "break point" based on the intensity of the situation.
So, if the encounter is fairly basic, with no surprise and no inequities, the Break point is determined with a 2D6 roll.
Add factors like "Surprise", or "overwhelming numbers or tech" and I add dice.
Once a situation "becomes" more dangerous and the break point rises, anyone who's Morale has to roll a morale check.
NPC's who fail will start pulling back, etc.
Players who fail will be warned their PC's are "becoming concerned" or worse....
And, if a player decides to push their character too hard (I once had a player demand his character could carry 5 gallons of water on a day's-long walking tour), I fake a roll and warn the player his Character failed the check and....
For player characters, I determine Morale as 1D6 + (points for medals and Combat Service Ribbon class events[since CSRs are not granted in some services])
So, a PC can have a Morale above 15.
My NPCs get written with Morales appropriate to the organization they come from and quality they are supposed to represent.
I then determine the "break point" based on the intensity of the situation.
So, if the encounter is fairly basic, with no surprise and no inequities, the Break point is determined with a 2D6 roll.
Add factors like "Surprise", or "overwhelming numbers or tech" and I add dice.
Once a situation "becomes" more dangerous and the break point rises, anyone who's Morale has to roll a morale check.
NPC's who fail will start pulling back, etc.
Players who fail will be warned their PC's are "becoming concerned" or worse....
And, if a player decides to push their character too hard (I once had a player demand his character could carry 5 gallons of water on a day's-long walking tour), I fake a roll and warn the player his Character failed the check and....
Badenov
SOC-12
I had this happen recently in a non-Traveller game, and the player would not let it drop. The rules said he would have to get 'complete rest' during the day to recover a point, but he wanted to also guard a prisoner, who was obviously not friendly and escape-oriented. (Players were groundside at the time.) I told him there was no way that guarding a prisoner was compatible with rest, and he argued for like half an hour. That was my last participation in that game.
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
@Badenov
I am guessing you were not the game master, so yeah. That sort of issue with a player can drag a game down.
The Player who wanted to carry the 5 gallons of water is no longer with my game and I have the character (the ship's gunner) NPC'd.
Eventually, I handled it by explaining what his character could carry, per the Book 1 encumbrance rules
When he tried to shrug that off, I explained the Exhaustion rolls and die modifiers.
When he tried to argue that, I put my foot down and said "I am the Game Master and these are the rules. Accept that or leave."
He made noises of acceptance, but then groused when I made rolls and applied effects over the day-long trek with the group he'd paid to join.
At the mid-day point, he "finally" admitted he had been foolish to over encumber himself, and poured out the water....but much of the damage had been done (And, as a former Airborne Pathfinder for the US Military, I was 1,000% educated on the damage he'd experience)
At the end of the trek, due to the effects of his over-encumbrance, the guides with his group informed him they were calling a helicopter to have him removed. They said he was damaging the ability of the other customers to enjoy the multi-day trek, and would not get a refund because his removal was his own fault.
This was the beginning of a wobble which eventually led to his removal from the game.
PS: I have a new potential player joining this coming Saturday's game (Jan 25, 2025) to decide if he wants to take on the gunner.
I also have a female ship's chief engineer who's former player had to drop after the death of her husband.
If you are able to play once a month on Saturdays, between Noon and 5-6pm Eastern
I use a mix of CT, MT and some House rules.
DM me if you're interested
I am guessing you were not the game master, so yeah. That sort of issue with a player can drag a game down.
The Player who wanted to carry the 5 gallons of water is no longer with my game and I have the character (the ship's gunner) NPC'd.
Eventually, I handled it by explaining what his character could carry, per the Book 1 encumbrance rules
When he tried to shrug that off, I explained the Exhaustion rolls and die modifiers.
When he tried to argue that, I put my foot down and said "I am the Game Master and these are the rules. Accept that or leave."
He made noises of acceptance, but then groused when I made rolls and applied effects over the day-long trek with the group he'd paid to join.
At the mid-day point, he "finally" admitted he had been foolish to over encumber himself, and poured out the water....but much of the damage had been done (And, as a former Airborne Pathfinder for the US Military, I was 1,000% educated on the damage he'd experience)
At the end of the trek, due to the effects of his over-encumbrance, the guides with his group informed him they were calling a helicopter to have him removed. They said he was damaging the ability of the other customers to enjoy the multi-day trek, and would not get a refund because his removal was his own fault.
This was the beginning of a wobble which eventually led to his removal from the game.
PS: I have a new potential player joining this coming Saturday's game (Jan 25, 2025) to decide if he wants to take on the gunner.
I also have a female ship's chief engineer who's former player had to drop after the death of her husband.
If you are able to play once a month on Saturdays, between Noon and 5-6pm Eastern
I use a mix of CT, MT and some House rules.
DM me if you're interested
Badenov
SOC-12
So my game was going through a rotating gamemaster situation after the original gamemaster backed out, and I was, for that session, the gamemaster, but I didn't feel sufficiently empowered to kick the other player out of the group, which is why I left them. Sadly, I cannot make your game time, but your game sounds interesting.
Doable with a good pack, etc., but at around 50 pounds/23kg, not something you'd do trivially unless that sort of thing is part of your day job (e.g. you're light infantry).
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
Part of the player's defense was that he was the chief gunner for their ship, and in good health.
And I replied,
"So, averaging one jump per every two weeks and no work out regime, you spend half your life boxed up in a cramped tin can without working your musculature. And, your career was a mix of the Imperial Navy and Scout Service.
So, there never was a point in your character's life where you "Could" have handled that load."
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
My house encumbrance rules give scouts vet bonuses the same as the marines and army. The idea is that yes they do space/courier work but also rough country exploration expeditions.
Anyone with recon or survival skill should probably get the bonus too.
That's fair, especially given the rule set you were using.
And yes, in Real Life, at one point in my life I was spending several weeks every year yomping 50+ kg of kit through New Zealand bush, but I sure as hell couldn't do that now (maybe with some months of serious training first, but maybe not, too). For that character, even with a workout regime, unless it was 'load up a pack, get on the walking machine, and fast walk for four hours a night', it'd be a 'No'.
I use TNE or GURPS, and their encumbrance rules are a bit more generous (a lot more in the former case), so I don't need to make allowances for careers (and in GURPS it's covered by having or not having the Hiking skill).
Huh. I just looked up encumbrance in the latest MgT2 book, and they're getting more generous - it's Str+End+Athletics(Str or End) kg and doesn't count worn armour, with up to double that weight, but you take a -2DM to all physical tasks. The -2 DM was a bane in earlier versions of 2e.
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
I don't worry about "generous" regarding encumbrance, since I was an Airborne Pathfinder.
Air-deployed forward special operations were the epitome of encumbrance and understanding why you're carrying every ounce or gram...
And, I've seen it go wrong during an op.
So, it is another potential hurtle my players have to face if they make mistakes like the one I described
Of course, I offer advice when they go into a situation.
I was fairly vocal about the player who tanked the water, because his character would have known better in My opinion....and he chose to ignore me
"Will the ground and temperature let me skip the ground mat? How many pairs of socks should I take vs the minimum I must take vs how many can I afford to take?"
"Oh, Sh!t! They just dumped the radio on me. What can I drop?"
Infantry in the NZ Army, in the early 90s, when it was very definitely 'light' infantry, and all the training was in NZ bush, which is heavy (and usually wet) and on rugged country.
casquilho
SOC-13
I remember reading one of the SciFi books and the trooper has a small person robotic mule that was tied to a transmitter on their belt. This allowed them to have access to a lot more than they could carry. I am not saying this was a great solution, just it was one that my 15 year old brain loved the visual of.
Boston Dynamics has you covered.
casquilho
SOC-13
Yep, and maybe a little bit bigger one if desired.
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
I remember reading one of the SciFi books and the trooper has a small person robotic mule that was tied to a transmitter on their belt. This allowed them to have access to a lot more than they could carry. I am not saying this was a great solution, just it was one that my 15 year old brain loved the visual of.
I've both seen that done in games and allowed it as a GM.
Yes, there are a number of downsides to the idea, but I trained under guys who had to deal with melting M-16's
So, bad ideas are not just for gaming...
The US Army has often expected soldiers to carry upwards of 66 lb (about 30 kg) on bivouac.
Commander Truestar
SOC-13
Hehehe...
You're obviously not talking about airborne troopers......we often carried 70+ lbs
And, had to manage co-dropped supplies
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