Does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold?

[gcbright]

Hi,

I just wanted to check reactions on Mongoose Traveller. I browsed the book at Barnes & Noble and it just didn't excite me.

I feel the same way about MGT that I felt about the first Traveller recompilation (from the LBBs into the more standard size book), it somehow feels like less than what I already own.

My reaction to the MGT $40 price tag was to turn around and buy the Classic Traveller CD from FFE. Despite having 90% of the material on the cd, it just felt like a better bargan for my $40.

Am I missing something, is there something there in MGT to get excited about or is it just a rehash with a higher than we've ever seen price tag?

Thanks

 

[mike wightman]

I was disapointed in the word count for MgT - compare it with the Traveller Book.

It is layed out clearly enough and the rules are servicable (but my house rules are better ).

I think the pocket edition could be the ideal version of the MgT core rules though, closer in form factor to the original and cheaper to boot.

 

[Zparkz]

There is basicallt three things that turned me away from MgT.

Task system - Never understood the reason for negative DMs based on stats

Combat rules - Looks interesting, but the initiative rule seems to be very fiddly

Starships - I never liked HG or any similar starship designs,. Too limiting, and armor values are not compatible with armor values fro armored vehicles.

 

[Echo]

Apparently the exchange rate between the UK/US is such that there has been price inflation in the states, for UK produced books. In the UK, the Traveller book was quite reasonably priced at £20, which used to be the equivalent to $30.

The pocket book should be a more affordable book at £10 (aprox. $25), and will be, in my opinion, closer to the style of the original game.

In terms of running/playing the game - I think it's excellent fun, and a strong development from the classic rules in a number of areas.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Yeah, cold seems about right.

The rules are OK, they work, but my shelves are bulging with OK games.
I think the presentation is sub par. I honestly prefer the older Mongoose stuff, and would pay extra for better art and presentation. My first ed Conan and d20 Slaine see much more use than my Runequest Slaine (as that book had b&w copies of colour, detailed computer generated art, text disappearing into the middle and the pages themselves suck). It isn't even about the colour as such. I also have most of the Starship Troopers rpg. I read it and I want to kick Bug-ass. I read a friends MGT and went meh.

I don't HATE it, mock it or anything, but I feel no urge to buy it, or use it.
But I can already play Traveller with what I have so I don't feel upset that its there, I certainly don't feel betrayed or a sence on entitlement to something better. "They" didn't spoil my game.
Feel a bit disapointed that the SST line wasn't finished because they worked on Traveller (but again not betrayed), but Traveller is more popular with fans and better buisness for Mongoose, so the majority of players gained. Besides T20 can more than fill the gap for the Navy book, and the Skinnies book can be made up by myself.

So yeah, cold about sums it up for me, personally.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I just wanted to check reactions on Mongoose Traveller. I browsed the book at Barnes & Noble and it just didn't excite me.

<Pulls the new guy aside to the edge of the alley>

"Shhh! You're new around here so I'll tell ya. We had a riot in here a few weeks ago, and it wasn't pretty. A couple of people went... missing. If you know what I mean. You don't know about MCP."

<Looks around to see if anyone's paying attention>

"It's Mongoose Compliance Police. Be careful what you say. The last time I said something, I couldn't use my CredCard for a week. There's people that still won't talk to me. My Mom looks at me funny. Just watch yourself - 'cause nobody else will. Ya know?"

<All of a sudden, there's a commotion down the street. Three thugs in police gear and mirrored face plates running towards them>

"God no! It's MCP! Run!"

. . . . . . .

Ok, maybe it wasn't that bad. We had a small flame war you missed all the fun in.

 

[atpollard]

The price is the only thing that I object to.

I found the character generation a little better than Classic Traveller Advanced Chargen and MegaTraveller Chargen - which is saying something since Traveller Chargen has always been one of it's best features. Like the CT LBB4-7 chargen, and the MT chargen, I think that MGT has too many skills and generates too many skills for my personal taste - but then again, I would have reduced the number of skills in CT LBB1-3 as well, so that is probably just my personal crusade and would not bother anyone else.

I found the spread of weapon damages far better than CT. The old CT "Every gun in the world, from the .25 cal. holdout pistol to the .455 cal. big game rifle, does 3D6" was always annoying. MGT: Mercenary has 100 round burst miniguns that shoot 2d6 bullets, 6 round burst light machine guns that shoot 4d6 bullets, and single shot LAG rifles that shoot 8d6 bullets.

[PS. To Spinward Scout ... a very funny post At least on COTI he can read the locked threads and see what happened if he wanted to. ]

 

[Gallowglacht]

I mostly agree, but in counterpoint, there has to come a time where people can discuss the good or bad of the game without everything going nuts right? My favourite version isn't very popular, gets its share of flack and its no big deal. I think there is enough maturity to discuss it now right? We can't just ignore the current biggest version for fear that a fringe are going to go all crazy again, right?

Or is this going to be another train wreck that leaves me all confused??

 

[tbeard1999]

I mostly agree, but in counterpoint, there has to come a time where people can discuss the good or bad of the game without everything going nuts right? My favourite version isn't very popular, gets its share of flack and its no big deal. I think there is enough maturity to discuss it now right? We can't just ignore the current biggest version for fear that a fringe are going to go all crazy again, right?

Or is this going to be another train wreck that leaves me all confused??

Personally, I'd suggest that every Traveller fan give MGT a look. I bought it; $40 is a very modest cost for a grownup hobby item (compared to bass fishing boats, titanium head golf clubs, etc.). If you don't wanna buy it, get someone to let you read through their copy. A consensus seems to have developed that character generation is its strongest feature. I agree, though like atpollard, I think that the system awards far too many skills. This is easy enough to correct, though.

I was underwhelmed by the rest of MGT. Not awful, just mediocre. And as you said, my shelves are filled with mediocre RPGs. Mercenary is utterly wretched, IMHO, and I'd avoid it unless you really like MGT. Even then, you might want to take a good look at it before buying it.

 

[atpollard]

I mostly agree, but in counterpoint, there has to come a time where people can discuss the good or bad of the game without everything going nuts right?

I find OR to be the operative word of late. It should be possible to discuss the good AND bad of any game.

For example, I like CT LBB5: High Guard for starship design and I find CT:LBB2 too limiting and MegaTraveller too complex, but I could easily understand how other people could prefer the simplicity of LBB2 or the detail of Megatraveller. I could also discuss the limitations and advantages of any of the systems.

This is not what I typically see with MGT, where the Posts usually end up as and endless series of negative comments on what each person finds wrong with it and virtually no discussion on what actually seems to work well.

I have never seen anyone else mention the greater spread of damages in 'Heavy Weapons' that make weapon choices more 'right tool for the job' oriented than LBB4:Mercenary (which was more like 'the best tool available at that TL'). It was only when the Ref in the PbP game on COTI posted the list so my Merc could select a Heavy Weapon that I saw what MGT had done - and recognized that it WAS better than CT in that area.

A balanced diagogue requires the identification of strengths as well as weaknesses. "It leaves me cold" is not a promising theme for an open discussion - more like an invitation to a negative-fest.

 

[Gallowglacht]

Um, I did read a friends one, and it was me that mentioned the shelves full of OK games.
I still have no desire to own it. (are you mixing me up with someone? I'd say yours was a general comment, only you quoted me*)
But yeah, I'd agree that everyone should give it a lookover.






*see already, I'm confused. At least theres no train wreck yet, he says, tempting fate.

 

[Gallowglacht]

I find OR to be the operative word of late. It should be possible to discuss the good AND bad of any game.

For example, I like CT LBB5: High Guard for starship design and I find CT:LBB2 too limiting and MegaTraveller too complex, but I could easily understand how other people could prefer the simplicity of LBB2 or the detail of Megatraveller. I could also discuss the limitations and advantages of any of the systems.

This is not what I typically see with MGT, where the Posts usually end up as and endless series of negative comments on what each person finds wrong with it and virtually no discussion on what actually seems to work well.

I have never seen anyone else mention the greater spread of damages in 'Heavy Weapons' that make weapon choices more 'right tool for the job' oriented than LBB4:Mercenary (which was more like 'the best tool available at that TL'). It was only when the Ref in the PbP game on COTI posted the list so my Merc could select a Heavy Weapon that I saw what MGT had done - and recognized that it WAS better than CT in that area.

A balanced diagogue requires the identification of strengths as well as weaknesses "It leaves me cold" is not a promising title for an open discussion - more like an invitation to a negative-fest.

Ah, yes, good and bad, thats what I should have said. Cold is at least an improvement on whats wrong with/ what you dislike etc. But, yeah maybe I'm being a bit naieve that this won't go down the toilet, but doesn't being overly cautious and waiting for it to happen leave a dark cloud of tension, waiting to burst on the first mistype? Sort of a self fulfilling prophesy type thing?

For example, I did say good OR bad, and say I'm not interested in it, but thats just honesty, not trying to slip a crack at it under the radar. Maybe I'm misinterpreting though. I took Cold to be neutral, no passion either way, but I can see the negitive angle now that you mention it.
Just got a new kitten. Perhaps that gave me a momentary lapse into hippy-like positive vybes.

I hope I haven't chucked fuel on a fire, really wasn't my intent...

 

[tbeard1999]

Um, I did read a friends one, and it was me that mentioned the shelves full of OK games.
I still have no desire to own it. (are you mixing me up with someone? I'd say yours was a general comment, only you quoted me

Yeah, sorry about that. I corrected the post to properly quote you.

 

[Rawlins]

I like the basic die rolling mechanic and the basic skill list from MGT. I also like the fact that the system is similar enough to both CT and MT that it is fairly easy to replace the parts I don't like with systems from CT and MT.

 

[atpollard]

Ah, yes, good and bad, thats what I should have said.

I hope I haven't chucked fuel on a fire, really wasn't my intent...

YOUR motives and meaning were perfectly clear and above board. There is little fuel to be added to the old fire that wasn't already there, so don't sweat it.

I just wanted to invite a little more credit where it might be due, but frankly even saying 'Version XYZ is a complete load of crap; don't buy it' is probably permitted under COTI policy, since it is not a personal attack.

I find it personally hard to buy any new version of something that I already have - it just rubs against my grain - so MGT has a hard sell with me from the start. So far I haven't seen the 'killer application' that makes MGT a must have for me, but I am more interested in Starship design anyway, so the real test is MGT:High Guard.

 

[ThunderChilde]

In keeping with the spirit of the discussion and being too new to the boards to have seen the flamewar that came before, here goes.

MGT is my Traveller of choice for now. My LBB's were the victims of a flood, along with an awful lot of my gaming treasures going back to the mid seventies. I never really took a shine to Mega, and TNE left me out in the cold.

I now wait with baited breath for High Gaurd before I kick off my first campaign in 20 years. I'll wind down my current CP2020 game when I am ready for Traveller.

General thanks and kuddos to one and all, COTI is an awesome resource.

 

[atpollard]

I like the basic die rolling mechanic and the basic skill list from MGT.

basic die rolling mechanic
It is 2D6 roll 8+ at it's core, right? What have they added to that that you like?
I like the softened attribute modifiers that keep average abilities from granting bonuses and high abilities from granting excessive bonuses.

basic skill list
From what I saw, it is comparable in size/scope to MegaTraveller.
Was there anything specific that stands out to you?
For example, I really liked the MegaTraveller change in Chargen (vs Classic Traveller) from rolling a specific skill to rolling a cascade of skills. This maintained some randomness to skill generation while giving the player some control over the specific skills received.

Did MGT fix Navigation skill? Nav-3 has tended to represent two wasted skills in most versions of Traveller.

(I'm not looking to challenge your opinions, I just wonder what you saw.)

 

[gcbright]

<Pulls the new guy aside to the edge of the alley>

"Shhh! You're new around here so I'll tell ya. We had a riot in here a few weeks ago, and it wasn't pretty. A couple of people went... missing. If you know what I mean. You don't know about MCP."

No need for a flame war on versions of Traveller. Just accept the universal truth. Traveller is like James Bond. People tend to like the first version they see better than anything that comes after it.

That's not say the LBB people can't enjoy the MegaTraveller stuff, just that the LBBs will always be their favorite.

Thanks

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

I guess I will be putting on my parka, as I make two more characters for two online games that people are starting using MGT as the base.

One is with players I have never heard of before, which is great, and it is a voice chat game, which is incredible. The second seems to be a Merc game, which I am looking forward to, as it has been a long time since I ran a Merc.

This makes for a total of five characters so far that use the MGT system. Two are active, in games now, and one is dormant on the Mongoose board, waiting for the game to start.

As for the pricetag, I myself was a bit taken aback by 40.00 at first, but then I remembered today's economy, and the exchange rates. I also remembered how much T20's core book cost. I am like you, I am used to game products being cheap. It makes a lot more economic sense as a hobby than having a 1914 Bugatti project car in the garage, as tbeard suggests.

Without going into too much Pulpit ready detail, it should't be the game company that is blamed for high costs in US dollars. You should see the cost of Flour.

"Mongoose compliance Police" Pfft. :nonono: This notion is preposterous. I'm sure that the people involved in that disgusting episode the other week know that its not about that. Nor was it about "hippy good feelings." All of the locked out threads are still readable, so now its possible to go back and objectively look at what is up with it.

 

[atpollard]

Nor was it about "hippy good feelings."

Dude, don't bring me down with all the negative energy. I like new little kitty good vibes.