We got a 15 year old to play. Weaned her off Pokemon with Full Thrust, then to Traveller. She is now a dyed-in-the-wool role-player. Of course, she was born a gun-nut, so the ironmongery of the Traveller universe appealed to her.
Does Mongoose Traveller leave you cold?
- Thread starter gcbright
- Start date
We got a 15 year old to play. Weaned her off Pokemon with Full Thrust, then to Traveller. She is now a dyed-in-the-wool role-player. Of course, she was born a gun-nut, so the ironmongery of the Traveller universe appealed to her.
Holy Cow! S4 *is* a Mongoose fanboi.
Sorry, weak attempt at humor... the coffee really hasn't kicked in yet.
Back to the original question, I can see MGT leaving long time Trav fans cold. I happen to like it, but I don't think it is revolutionary or radically improved over previous versions enough to supplant most people's existing "favorite version." I do know that I've gotten a number of people who never played any version of Traveller interested enough to pick up the core MGT rule book though.
I get the feeling that Traveller is a bit of a Frankenstein game for many referees who graft together pieces they like from various versions.
beowulf2044
SOC-12
I remember reading an advertisement in Challenge Magazine that foretold of a new, integrated system for Traveller. It was going to combine the best of all the previous Traveller publications, produce a streamlined combat system based on AHL/Striker and update Traveller overall.
They gave us MegaTraveller instead.
I think it''s good to have a new publisher and hope that new material will bring new people into the fold. Do I care for it? It doesn't matter. To argue over the merits of the various incarnations is akin to arguing over the best flavor of ice cream.
In the end, we're all discussing ice cream.
So let's enjoy it.
Except for those weird, Rocky Road people.
They gave us MegaTraveller instead.
I think it''s good to have a new publisher and hope that new material will bring new people into the fold. Do I care for it? It doesn't matter. To argue over the merits of the various incarnations is akin to arguing over the best flavor of ice cream.
In the end, we're all discussing ice cream.
So let's enjoy it.
Except for those weird, Rocky Road people.
Exactly - there is no global best: best is subjective when it comes to versions. I did buy the Spinward Marches book and liked it (MJD used Craw from the planet building article in the JTAS, which was interesting and not quite cheating, but at least linked old CT with MgT) and while nothing really new, and perhaps missing a bit of detail (IMHO), is a good treatment of that venerable (and too often covered, but hey) sector.
I also like the idea of linking the players somehow in character creation: my biggest issue when reffing CT was figuring out how to get the players together and why the heck they wanted to be together. There are only so many times you can start a campaign via the traditional bar fight...
And yes, those Rocky Road people are a bit off track...
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Holy Cow! S4 *is* a Mongoose fanboi.
I just calls 'em likes I's sees 'em. Mongoose Traveller = not so good. Mongoose Conan = fantastic.
Hmmm: having run Mongoose Conan for ~1 year, I'd say less than fantastic, but that's my anti-d20 bias showing. I'd be interested to see what you think after running it for a while. The mechanics are about as far as you can get from 68A.
I'm looking forward to trying MGT when my group is ready, and having sat on the fence about it for months finally traded in some unused game stuff to get it (practically free
). None of the other MGT products appeal to me (based partly on reviews of them, partly on owning the CT CD-ROM), and I've selected the New Era: 1248 setting over OTU or ATU or Proto-Trav.I'd say MGT leaves me between luke-warm and simmering, but we'll see how it tastes after cooking.
The Inheritence
I always use the shared inheritance idea to bring characters together. Yes, all of your relatives who owned part of this ship fell to their deaths when their air raft malfunctioned at 10,000 ft.
Also the inherited shared ship makes for easy character replacement when someone's PC bites the dust. (They just willed their share to a relative).
It also keeps the party together, after all, who is going to trust someone they just met with the big expensive star ship that is part theirs.
Sometimes the ship is a clunker in warehouse, stripped out and needing repairs and parts just so the characters can get it somewhere to sale or salvage.
As always greed will keep them characters together much better than noble deeds.
Thanks
I always use the shared inheritance idea to bring characters together. Yes, all of your relatives who owned part of this ship fell to their deaths when their air raft malfunctioned at 10,000 ft.
Also the inherited shared ship makes for easy character replacement when someone's PC bites the dust. (They just willed their share to a relative).
It also keeps the party together, after all, who is going to trust someone they just met with the big expensive star ship that is part theirs.
Sometimes the ship is a clunker in warehouse, stripped out and needing repairs and parts just so the characters can get it somewhere to sale or salvage.
As always greed will keep them characters together much better than noble deeds.
Thanks
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Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I've become more focused with chargen in my games (Traveller and other games). In my current Conan game, I ruled that all PCs would hail from Arenjun, the City of Thieves, in Zamora. I gave them just three character classes to choose from: Soldiers, Thieves, and Borderers.
Any soldier would automatically be in the City Watch. Thieves would be, well, thieves. Independent thieves. Freelancers. And, borderers would be loners, mountaineers, typically spending most of their time on the western and southern border of Zamora with Turan and the Great Desert. These men wouldn't be in the strict employ of the Governor, but that's how they'd earn their living--as contractors of a sort, reporting and living on the fringe of society.
The point being here: I was very specific about what was possible to play for story reasons. I didn't want to try to figure how a noble got mixed up with the story I have planned--or how a Temptress or Priest would join up. It wouldn't fit. I'd have to stretch.
So, I limited character generation.
I've been know to do this with Traveller, too. I don't need to give the players a wide range of choice when it comes to character generation. There's nothing wrong with saying that every PC served in the Fifth Frontier War, in the same Marine unit, and they are all now mustering out together (there's even a CT adventure in Alien Realms that starts off that way).
When I run Cold Dark Grave, I will either give the players the pregenerated characters, or I will rule that all players must roll up Belters. Because, that's what fits that story.
The next time you (universal "you" meant here) start a game, and you've got a typical Traveller vagabond crew, consider limiting the choice of career. Don't allow Army and Marine personnel. Allow those careers with skills important to crewing a starship: Scouts, Merchants, Navy.
Go another step. Make the players all from the same planet. They don't need to grow up together, but they could all easily be from the same world.
At first, this sounds "too restrictive". But, let me tell ya, once the players get used to the idea, it makes for some damn interesting (and many times, "more plausible") games.
"OK, this new campaign is going to center around the three-man crew of a Scout ship. All three PCs will be Scouts, and I'm throwing in one robot as an NPC. The Scouts will still be in the Service, so I'll allow you to muster for every term but the last..."
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Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Hmmm: having run Mongoose Conan for ~1 year, I'd say less than fantastic, but that's my anti-d20 bias showing. I'd be interested to see what you think after running it for a while. The mechanics are about as far as you can get from 68A.
Yeah, it is complex. And, when I said Mongoose Conan was fantastic, I didn't necessarily mean the d20 mechanics. I typically loathe d20 games, too.
But, as far as d20 goes, Conan does a lot of things "right". If I had to use d20 but could make some changes, I'd make a lot of the changes that Conan uses: Armor that absorbs damage and not makes characters harder to hit; viable defense without wearing armor (Dodge); weapons rated with armor piercing ability; STR used to modify the attack roll AND the damage roll; etc.
What I really meant, though, when I said Mongoose Conan = fantastic is Mongoose's grasp of the Conan universe. I'm a HUGE Conan fan, having read about 30 or so of the 100+ Conan novels that have been published. Mongoose has really gots its thumb on the "pulse" of the game. The atmosphere is truly Conan, and all the supplements and adventures reflect that.
Unlike MGT, where Traveller doesn't "feel" like Traveller, Mongoose's Conan hits the nail on the head. Those game books reflect the universe of Conan unlike any other Conan game I've ever seen (including the TSR AD&D version of Conan and the GURPS Conan books).
So...it's not quite the rules I'm talking about (although Mongoose did a superb job fitting d20 to Conan). It's the background and adventures and "universe" oriented material that I'm talking about.
Conan is grim and gritty and "realistic" dark fantasy.
The Mongoose books do a great job of making me feel the same way I do when I read a good Conan story.
And, that's top knotch praise for any rpg.
Rhialto the Marvelous
SOC-13
I agree on the Conan issue, S4. Those boxed city sets... typically overpriced, but, man, chock full of atmosphere and adventure.
Re. kids and complex rules: I too used to think that if RPGs are going to be as popular as in the 80s again you need to publish some rules-lite game. An updated BD&D.
Then I read an essay by Monte Cook in which it was pointed out that's an illusion. 3.x D&D, a majorly crunchy game, sold like hotcakes. *Because* of the crunch, or what Cook called the "ivory tower" effect. Ivory tower, because the rules were deliberately designed such that, if you wanted to create an optimum character, you needed to invest time to study them.
And kids have exactly that--lots of time. It's only us, not them, who want something lighter.
Re. kids and complex rules: I too used to think that if RPGs are going to be as popular as in the 80s again you need to publish some rules-lite game. An updated BD&D.
Then I read an essay by Monte Cook in which it was pointed out that's an illusion. 3.x D&D, a majorly crunchy game, sold like hotcakes. *Because* of the crunch, or what Cook called the "ivory tower" effect. Ivory tower, because the rules were deliberately designed such that, if you wanted to create an optimum character, you needed to invest time to study them.
And kids have exactly that--lots of time. It's only us, not them, who want something lighter.
Hmmm, S4 I really enjoy this line of text for "how to start a Traveller campaign".
Maybe someone could create a whole bunch of these to go along with the various plots in the different "Patrons" books???
Starter Idea
One of my favorite devices to united a group of PCs.
The characters have just finished mustering out on the same world. All seems fine until they are told they have one last person to see before they leave.
The characters are gathered in a conference room when an IRIS agent enters.
Each are asked about a past relationship with a woman (use different names), if one of the PCs is female, ask about a roommate.
Once each PC confirms their relationship, the IRIS agent congratulates them on aiding a Solsec agent. It is then explained to them that since they are the only ones who can possibly identify this spy, they will be taken by x-boat route to planet-X, where they will be given a ship to get to planet Y.
With luck you will arrive on planet Y, 3 to 7 days before the solsec agent.
Bring her into custody and you can keep the ship. Fail and I suggest you get aboard that vessel and head to solamani space yourselves because the only thing that will be waiting for you in the Imperium is a long prison sentence.
Thanks
One of my favorite devices to united a group of PCs.
The characters have just finished mustering out on the same world. All seems fine until they are told they have one last person to see before they leave.
The characters are gathered in a conference room when an IRIS agent enters.
Each are asked about a past relationship with a woman (use different names), if one of the PCs is female, ask about a roommate.
Once each PC confirms their relationship, the IRIS agent congratulates them on aiding a Solsec agent. It is then explained to them that since they are the only ones who can possibly identify this spy, they will be taken by x-boat route to planet-X, where they will be given a ship to get to planet Y.
With luck you will arrive on planet Y, 3 to 7 days before the solsec agent.
Bring her into custody and you can keep the ship. Fail and I suggest you get aboard that vessel and head to solamani space yourselves because the only thing that will be waiting for you in the Imperium is a long prison sentence.
Thanks
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Thanks. I've written about this kind of thing before in the CT forum. GM's don't have to be married to the traditional chargen tables, either. If a GM wants to make a certain skill likely, or logic dictates that a skill should be available, either substitute it for a skill on the chargen tables or offer it as an option not unlike a cascade skill.
There's precedent for this, too. Some of the CT supplements use variant rules. The Scouts & Assassins book published by Paranoia Press offered advanced chargen (1 year terms) for Scouts before Book 6 was printed. Failing a Survival throw was handled uniquely. When a player failed survival, he threw 2d6 and checked a table. All sorts of results could come from it from actual death, to desertion and cowardice, to mutiny, drunkenness, insubordination, transfer to another military career...etc. These result also were tied to effects, usually forfeiting a muster out throw or taking a penalty modifier on the muster roll.
William H. Keith wrote The Desert Environment for CT, published by Gamelords, and in it, he introduced the Desert Survival skill. He suggests allowing the skill whenever Survival is thrown as a skill on the chargen tables, if Mercenary chargen is being used. For basic chargen, Desert Survival can be taken in place of any +1 Endurance result on the chargen tables.
Characters who already have finished chargen and have the basic Survival skill can also be considered to have the specialized Desert Survival skill at a level equal to half the character's Survival skill. So, Survival-1 = Desert Survival-0; Survival-2 = Desert Survival-1; and so on.
My point here is: There's no reason why a GM shouldn't "customize" chargen tables for a specific world when starting a game.
When I start a new Traveller campaign, I typically make a homeworld (or maybe a couple of them, depending on the story and my mood) that all characters would call home.
Then, I look at the world I created and "read" it a bit. Is it on a major jump lane? Does it have any bases? What's its trade codes? What's it's population and tech level? Is it balkanized? Atmosphere? Gravity (Size)? Satellites? Satellites with anything on them--bases and such? How big is its starport? Who are the world's neighbors, and what are they like? Etc.
Then, I reason it out and decide what careers are possible on that planet.
Take a world like Aramanx, in the Spinward Marches, Aramis subsector. It's balkanized, on the brink of world war (in 1105), at TL 6. This is Vietnam era technology, but there's a Class B highport in orbit around the planet. And, the world is restricted, requiring a "pass" to travel from the highport to dirtside because of the tension between countries, even though the world is not yet rated an Amber Zone.
If I decided that this would be the character's homeworld, then I'd make chargen choices based on this world.
There may be some Scouts on the world, evaluating if an official Amber Zone designation is needed, but, they wouldn't have grown up here. Remember, this will be the character's homeworld.
So, since there's no Scout base, I would not allow Scouts as a choice.
The world is at TL 6, so any Marine or Army characters would be allowed, but they'd be of the more traditional real-world sort of the Vietnam era. And, they'd be part of one of the armed forces for Aramanx's countries--not the Imperium. These characters would be familiar with M-16's and helicopters. Laser weapons and grav vehicles would be out of the question. I'd have to go over the basic Marine and Army chargen charts and make some adjustments. (Usually, I'd just wing it during chargen, letting logic lead me--keeping the prep work to a minimum.)
I might do some searching on the net and find some TL appropriate images to show my players--something that surely doesn't look like it came from earth but is still appropriate to the tech level. When I say, "Vietnam era", I think it puts too many real-world pictures in players' heads. So, I'd want to maintain the science fiction of this game, even if we are talking about TL 6. At an appropriate time, maybe even during chargen, I might pull this picture out, show it to the players, and tell them how these types of fighters are buzzing overhead all the time. "They're no more foreign to your characters than the P51 Mustang was to people in the late 1940's."
That should give the players the feeling of both the tech involved and the notion that they're not playing in Kansas. This is another world with its own unique culture and technology.
http://bp1.blogger.com/_1QVO3g7j51I/R7nCgIkGc1I/AAAAAAAAAV4/c6375rPXWdM/s1600-h/010.jpg
A wet navy would be present, using Supplement 4. Most of the civilian careers would be possible, doctors and bureaucrats and such.
Belters? Nope. There might be a belt or two in the system (I'd use Heaven & Earth to easily look this up), but the system is too backwards technology wise to support any sort of belting population.
Barbarians? Maybe. It depends on the Aramanx's pop, and if there's anywhere on the planet that is isolated.
Merchants? Sure. Operating out of the Class B starport. Plus, a couple of the megacorps have a strong interest in developing Aramanx. This could be a connection for nobles, merchants, and bureaucrats.
Others? You bet. General thugs and criminals abound almost anywhere you go.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
Instead of doing the usual, rolling up generic characters and squeezing them into a campaign, consider looking at your story first (as I suggested in the above post with the Scouts example), or consider looking at your environment in which you will set or begging the adventure (as I've done here, looking at Aramanx).
And, remember, "homeworld" doesn't mean the character is visiting from another world. It means he's spent most of his life here--so his career should reflect that.
Take a look at what careers are possible given the environment, and then look at the careers you allow and make changes if necessary (no laser weapon skill will be earned by the Aramanx Army sergeant that is mustering out....this guys knows M-16's, .45 autopistols, jeeps, and helos).
Do this... and you just might find your Traveller campaign has taken on a life of its own...and become more interesting than its ever been before.
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Monte Cook's essay ignores the practicalities of play versus the nature of sales.
The biggest falacy is that sales represent player base. This board is quite sure proof of that being false... many of the purchasers do not play their purchases.
What tends to see play is not congruent to what sells. I've bought several games this last week alone simply for reading. (3:16, Complete Caveman's Club Book, Burning Wheel Magic Burner, Shatterzone Ship Techbook, and an L5R recent release.) Of these, I might run 3:16, it will be a while before I run L5R again, and MaBu is just in case I can convince my current group to try it after we Burn the Worms at Nod (Burning Empires).
I also preordered T&T7.5, which I wil run. Perhaps only solo play, perhaps with a group.
The biggest falacy is that sales represent player base. This board is quite sure proof of that being false... many of the purchasers do not play their purchases.
What tends to see play is not congruent to what sells. I've bought several games this last week alone simply for reading. (3:16, Complete Caveman's Club Book, Burning Wheel Magic Burner, Shatterzone Ship Techbook, and an L5R recent release.) Of these, I might run 3:16, it will be a while before I run L5R again, and MaBu is just in case I can convince my current group to try it after we Burn the Worms at Nod (Burning Empires).
I also preordered T&T7.5, which I wil run. Perhaps only solo play, perhaps with a group.
Yes, the Conan d20 author has a deep grasp of the Conan milieu, but filtered through d20 it refracts into something else: a mechanics-heavy chore to run, especially at high-level play (may be fun to play: I wouldn't know). Conan stories are fast and furious, and something like FATE/FUDGE, Barbarians of Lemuria or Savage Worlds would reflect them better (IMO). As I said, it'll be interesting to see how you feel later.
A variant I've used of this technique (not specifically in Traveller, though) is to run a joint chargen session (or separate, if I must) first, then build a story around the characters. It means a delay in getting the campaign going (since you need time to look all the characters over) but still prioritizes story over game: only from the characters' perspectives, not the story's perspective.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
It's still odd to me that Mongoose hasn't switched Conan to the Runequest rules.
Britti_Lover
SOC-10
I like it!
"I just wanted to check reactions on Mongoose Traveller. I browsed the book at Barnes & Noble and it just didn't excite me.
I feel the same way about MGT that I felt about the first Traveller recompilation (from the LBBs into the more standard size book), it somehow feels like less than what I already own."
Ok - I have four versions of Traveller (five if you count Traveller:2300 - I actually lump this game together as 2300AD - a Cyberpunk/Hard SF game with my Gurps Cyberpunk and Cyberpunk 2020 stuff) however, the latest version as 2320AD that REQUIRES the Traveller rule book to play has me thinking its Traveller related now - in its third edition.
Anyway - of the four I have I LOVE GURPS TRAVELLER - just love that version. I play it all the time. Better for me than CT, MT or TNE. And GT:IW is a work of art - beautiful.
And despite all this -- I really like Mongoose Traveller - a great version of the game. I've played it and it is very playable and fun. A true classic RPG.
So - if you love Traveller - this version should be your cup of tea. Not a perfect game mind you - but very well done.
"I just wanted to check reactions on Mongoose Traveller. I browsed the book at Barnes & Noble and it just didn't excite me.
I feel the same way about MGT that I felt about the first Traveller recompilation (from the LBBs into the more standard size book), it somehow feels like less than what I already own."
Ok - I have four versions of Traveller (five if you count Traveller:2300 - I actually lump this game together as 2300AD - a Cyberpunk/Hard SF game with my Gurps Cyberpunk and Cyberpunk 2020 stuff) however, the latest version as 2320AD that REQUIRES the Traveller rule book to play has me thinking its Traveller related now - in its third edition.
Anyway - of the four I have I LOVE GURPS TRAVELLER - just love that version. I play it all the time. Better for me than CT, MT or TNE. And GT:IW is a work of art - beautiful.
And despite all this -- I really like Mongoose Traveller - a great version of the game. I've played it and it is very playable and fun. A true classic RPG.
So - if you love Traveller - this version should be your cup of tea. Not a perfect game mind you - but very well done.
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