Does the average person in the 3I feel involved in the 3I?

[Garyius2003]

A lot of my goods are made in Asia. I know there are giant ships bringing it in. I don't feel connected, even though I buy the stuff.

I know there is an international banking system and WTO, I don't feel connected.

I vote for a mayor, governor, senator, president. I don't care who runs the ports or the WTO.

My wife woke up at some crazy time to watch a British Royal Wedding and follows the social gossip/baby stuff. We don't feel connected to them, though.

Does the average 3I citizen feel that way? Vote for local and maybe world leader, follow Empresses and Countess gossip, and have some awareness that the local Baron and Starport Admin are important, but not really feel it.

Maybe a trip to a neighboring system is viewed like a once in a lifetime treat like we save for a trip to Europe from America, and that's about it?

 

[Carlobrand]

In the Marches, the Imperium is involved in the defense of the Imperial worlds. When they mishandled the Third Frontier War, the public outcry prompted an emperor to abdicate. That implies some feeling of connectedness on the part of the citizenry.

 

[Timerover51]

I suspect that unless the average citizen of the Third Imperium is being physically or financially threatened by off-planet enemies or agencies, that they have about as much interest in the affairs of the Imperium as the average US citizen has in the affairs of the United Nations. In short, pretty much nil.

 

[aramis]

I suspect that unless the average citizen of the Third Imperium is being physically or financially threatened by off-planet enemies or agencies, that they have about as much interest in the affairs of the Imperium as the average US citizen has in the affairs of the United Nations. In short, pretty much nil.

I tend to agree.

 

[Dragoner]

Ah, but humans love spectacle, look at Göbekli Tepe.

IMO, manufactured media, Imperial holidays, fleet "show the flag" visits, military service, employment, etc.; will make the Imperium relevant.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Dragoner, they might make it something people watch, but not necessarily relevant. I think (akin to timerover51) mostly it will be something that entertains but isn't terribly relevant until the bogie man from elsewhere shows up.

 

[Dragoner]

Dragoner, they might make it something people watch, but not necessarily relevant. I think (akin to timerover51) mostly it will be something that entertains but isn't terribly relevant until the bogie man from elsewhere shows up.

Same can be said about the US, so? To some people it will matter and to others, they are oblivious to anything less subtle than getting hit with a brick in their teeth.

 

[rancke]

In the Marches, the Imperium is involved in the defense of the Imperial worlds. When they mishandled the Third Frontier War, the public outcry prompted an emperor to abdicate. That implies some feeling of connectedness on the part of the citizenry.

The public outcry that led to the forced abdication of Emperor Styryx was on Capital. I very much doubt any public outcry in the Marches had much effect on that.


Hans

 

[Lycanorukke]

Does the average 3I citizen feel that way? Vote for local and maybe world leader, follow Empresses and Countess gossip, and have some awareness that the local Baron and Starport Admin are important, but not really feel it.

I would consider it similiar to the Commonwealth countries of today.

While technically (with contraints by the Westminster system etc) Queen Liz is the supreme ruler of all Commonwealth countries via governor generals, on a day to day basis it is meaningless to the average Joe/Jane. People know about the Queen, the governor general who does a lot of ribbon cutting, occassional antics of Prince Someone and Lady Whatsherface used a filler for "Female Sentients Weekly", certain holidays, and perhaps the ocassional tour by some royal which is more of a traffic annoyance than anything.

It's only when the Governor/Noble publically sticks their hand into things that people really sit up and take notice. They may have every legal right to act as they can under the rules - but ordinary people usually dont like it when someone tells them how to run their government (even if they hate their own government). Eg: Canada 1926 "King–Byng Affair" and Australia 1975 "The Dismissal".

 

[Blue Ghost]

It would probably depend on Imperial presence and cultural factors. You might look at the British Empire during its hey day to get a social template.

 

[Dragoner]

Who is the average person in the 3I?

 

[CosmicGamer]

Connected and involved are pretty vague terms in the OP context. As with most things, it varies and is situational. TL, SOC level, degree of free press, degree of honest reporting vs propaganda in the press, proximity to the Space Port, amount of outside trade, in system Imperial Naval or Scout bases, and numerous other things would be factors.

 

[aramis]

Who is the average person in the 3I?

They live on a high population, high law, dictatorial world of TL 12 or so.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Same can be said about the US, so? To some people it will matter and to others, they are oblivious to anything less subtle than getting hit with a brick in their teeth.

I agree, and that is my point - most people have more immediate concerns than that stuff. There's a literary quote somewhere about this.... Wish I could recall it.

 

[Dragoner]

I agree, and that is my point - most people have more immediate concerns than that stuff. There's a literary quote somewhere about this.... Wish I could recall it.

But it is not the question of immediate concerns.

 

[Carlobrand]

I suspect that unless the average citizen of the Third Imperium is being physically or financially threatened by off-planet enemies or agencies, that they have about as much interest in the affairs of the Imperium as the average US citizen has in the affairs of the United Nations. In short, pretty much nil.

That sums it up nicely. When the taxes go up, your favorite coffee is harder to come by, and the rumor mill has a Zhodani army landing within the week, then you care.

The public outcry that led to the forced abdication of Emperor Styryx was on Capital. I very much doubt any public outcry in the Marches had much effect on that.


Hans

Umm, I don't have all Traveller sources, so I may have missed something. Given that two fleets have already sailed in from the Marches to overthrow an emperor following the two previous wars up there, where precisely does it say that an outcry in the Marches would not have had an effect on Capital? Strikes me that, given that history, an outcry in the Marches would have a great effect among both the hoi polloi and the elite on Capital - "Oh, no, not again!!!"

 

[rancke]

Umm, I don't have all Traveller sources, so I may have missed something. Given that two fleets have already sailed in from the Marches to overthrow an emperor following the two previous wars up there, where precisely does it say that an outcry in the Marches would not have had an effect on Capital? Strikes me that, given that history, an outcry in the Marches would have a great effect among both the hoi polloi and the elite on Capital - "Oh, no, not again!!!"

For one thing, the Alkhalikoi emperors stopped appointing Grand Admirals of the Marches, thus reducing the forces under any one admiral, and for another, they kept the forces in the Imperial Core from fighting each other.


Hans

 

[McPerth]

They live on a high population, high law, dictatorial world of TL 12 or so.

I guess this one average Imperial Citizen will feel himself more world citizen than Imperial one, and be less involved than the one that lives in a smaller planet, so needing more Imprerial support. For the former average citizen, Imperium might as well be only one more tax to pay.

It also will depend n the Imperial presence in the system. On a small planet with a Naval base, Imperium will be quite present, and most people directly involved with it, in a high pop, hi tech world without bases, probably quite less so.

And finally, as some have pointed, personal involvement (e.g. someone working for Impreial agency), SOC (to lesser extent, as it may well mean planetary status) and situation (Frontier Wars in SM, Solomai war in Rimward sectors, etc).

Even so, I guess when Rebellion shatters the Imperium, most of them miss them and see that they where (mostly indirectly) more involved with the Imperium than they felt earlier and miss its stabilizing influence.

 

[mike wightman]

We could really do with a sourcebook that details the Imperial core sectors and shows how daily life is very different from those living in the frontier sectors.

I can see how core worlds would have more direct Imperial involvement in planetary rule, and that citizens of those core worlds would think of themselves as Imperials.

It's out in the frontier sectors, like the Spinward Marches, where world government has a bigger impact on daily life and culture than Imperial culture.

I am not a big fan of how the folks at DGP detailed core sectors, I think they missed a trick in randomly assigning world government and law level codes. It would have made a lot more sense to stick with only a few government, law level and TL codes for the core sector planets.

 

[rancke]

I am not a big fan of how the folks at DGP detailed core sectors, I think they missed a trick in randomly assigning world government and law level codes. It would have made a lot more sense to stick with only a few government, law level and TL codes for the core sector planets.

I agree. The former Sylean Federation worlds in particular should show considerable commonality.


Hans