Errata - that difficult subject
- Thread starter vraymond
- Start date
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Yey, grenade launchers
Thanks Dom
(you may want to look at the format of the table on page 28 though
)
Thanks Dom
(you may want to look at the format of the table on page 28 though
)Ok, I've got a few things that might count for errata purposes (and a couple that are kind of fuzzy, but I think could do with some clarification!). These all come from the Player's Manual:
1. p68. Interrupts. The task is described as:
Routine. Movement speed (safe)
Whose movement speed, the interupter's or the interruptee's? And should it be a negative modifier?
Also, the text says:
"If this task is successful, it becomes the interrupting unit's turn. The interrupted units's turn is considered spent."
This seems at odds with the earlier wording in that section, which says "a unit can choose to interrupt another unit's turn and take it's turn in the middle of that unit's turn", and the example, which explicitly says that Dur Telemon will get to continue his movement after the other unit has interrupted.
2. p75. Treatment. The task "to treat an injury" is defined as:
Difficult, Medical, Int, 10 min
Given the descriptive text, I think it should be
[Difficulty], Medical, Int, 10 min
3. p28 & 34. Gauss Pistol doesn't seem to be listed, it should presumably come under Handgun, and also as it's own skill.
Ok, now a couple of things that I think are ambiguous and could do with some clearing up:
p72 & 73 : Danger Space. These seem a bit weird in several ways:
- there is no method given for converting between the 1.5m and 15m scales, and halving the penetration "per square" would mean that the effect of the blast would change depending on the scale being used.
- The rules suggest that to see which targets in the danger space are hit, you roll for a hit on them. It doesn't really explain how. If you use the original task that was used to check for a hit, that means that the effect of the blast is determined by the range to the target, etc, which seems screwy. Also p 94 (RH column, near the top) mentions "All units within the danger space use the explosive detonation 'to hit' task covered under indirect fire". However, the only task given on p73 under "indirect fire" is that for hitting a targeted location with indirect fire. I believe that there is some rule or rules missing that cover being hit while in the danger space of an explosive/burst effect.
p73 : Autofire. There seems to be no benefit to autofire unless the target has adjacent targets. Earlier versions of Traveller allowed 2 "to hit" rolls vs the main target on autofire. Is this missing, or intentional?
Hope those make sense!
Thankss for all your hard work on these errata Don, it's really great to see them all being pulled together. Now if I could only get round to retyping the rules with the errata included...
cheers,
Mark
1. p68. Interrupts. The task is described as:
Routine. Movement speed (safe)
Whose movement speed, the interupter's or the interruptee's? And should it be a negative modifier?
Also, the text says:
"If this task is successful, it becomes the interrupting unit's turn. The interrupted units's turn is considered spent."
This seems at odds with the earlier wording in that section, which says "a unit can choose to interrupt another unit's turn and take it's turn in the middle of that unit's turn", and the example, which explicitly says that Dur Telemon will get to continue his movement after the other unit has interrupted.
2. p75. Treatment. The task "to treat an injury" is defined as:
Difficult, Medical, Int, 10 min
Given the descriptive text, I think it should be
[Difficulty], Medical, Int, 10 min
3. p28 & 34. Gauss Pistol doesn't seem to be listed, it should presumably come under Handgun, and also as it's own skill.
Ok, now a couple of things that I think are ambiguous and could do with some clearing up:
p72 & 73 : Danger Space. These seem a bit weird in several ways:
- there is no method given for converting between the 1.5m and 15m scales, and halving the penetration "per square" would mean that the effect of the blast would change depending on the scale being used.
- The rules suggest that to see which targets in the danger space are hit, you roll for a hit on them. It doesn't really explain how. If you use the original task that was used to check for a hit, that means that the effect of the blast is determined by the range to the target, etc, which seems screwy. Also p 94 (RH column, near the top) mentions "All units within the danger space use the explosive detonation 'to hit' task covered under indirect fire". However, the only task given on p73 under "indirect fire" is that for hitting a targeted location with indirect fire. I believe that there is some rule or rules missing that cover being hit while in the danger space of an explosive/burst effect.
p73 : Autofire. There seems to be no benefit to autofire unless the target has adjacent targets. Earlier versions of Traveller allowed 2 "to hit" rolls vs the main target on autofire. Is this missing, or intentional?
Hope those make sense!
Thankss for all your hard work on these errata Don, it's really great to see them all being pulled together. Now if I could only get round to retyping the rules with the errata included...
cheers,
Mark
Aha, and another couple, these to do with Life Force and Healing:
- it seems fairly easy to get low or zero penetration hits that would cause fractional loss of life points e.g. SMG vs Cloth = Pen 3 vs Armour 5 = Zero penetration. On a normal hit, that's 3 x 0.1 = 0.3 damage. Is that tallied, or ignored as it is less than 1? If ignored, then this would seem to make many weapons virtually useless against Cloth armour or higher (maybe intentionally?).
I would rule that it counts I think, and fractional Life Force damage can be taken. After combat you check per whole point of damage taken, ignoring any remaining fractions.
- In the Healing and Treatment of wounds section, there is no real method given for converting back to Life Force for wounded characters. I suspect that the intent is that you add up the STR, DEX & END of the wounded character and convert on the Life Force table on p66 to get a new Hits Value for that character, but it's not explicitly mentioned at all.
cheers,
Mark
- it seems fairly easy to get low or zero penetration hits that would cause fractional loss of life points e.g. SMG vs Cloth = Pen 3 vs Armour 5 = Zero penetration. On a normal hit, that's 3 x 0.1 = 0.3 damage. Is that tallied, or ignored as it is less than 1? If ignored, then this would seem to make many weapons virtually useless against Cloth armour or higher (maybe intentionally?).
I would rule that it counts I think, and fractional Life Force damage can be taken. After combat you check per whole point of damage taken, ignoring any remaining fractions.
- In the Healing and Treatment of wounds section, there is no real method given for converting back to Life Force for wounded characters. I suspect that the intent is that you add up the STR, DEX & END of the wounded character and convert on the Life Force table on p66 to get a new Hits Value for that character, but it's not explicitly mentioned at all.
cheers,
Mark
Mark:
I've always tracked the individual dice's damage.... so once the die has been healed, the associated hit is returned.
Most people I know simply recalc Life and Hits.
For the low pen situations, fractions are usually ignored, except that see MTPM page 71 where a better than normal hit (2+) has a minimum damage that allows a no penetration hit to do a certain minimum. SO in the case you give, hit by 0-1 is none, hit by 2-3 is 1, hit by 4-7 is 2, hit by 8 is 4 damage.
I've always tracked the individual dice's damage.... so once the die has been healed, the associated hit is returned.
Most people I know simply recalc Life and Hits.
For the low pen situations, fractions are usually ignored, except that see MTPM page 71 where a better than normal hit (2+) has a minimum damage that allows a no penetration hit to do a certain minimum. SO in the case you give, hit by 0-1 is none, hit by 2-3 is 1, hit by 4-7 is 2, hit by 8 is 4 damage.
Yup, that's another good way to do it, and gives a bit more variation on wounds I guess.
That's true, I'd forgotten about those minimums, useful to remember! I guess that you do need to drop fractions, else a guy in Battle Dress-14 (Armour 18) is going to be whittled down by pistol shots. Most of the time though I'm not going to be getting +4/+8 results, unless I'm really skilled.
For example, an SMG at Close range vs Cloth armour: SMG is Pen 3 at Close. To hit is Routine, let's say Dex=5 and skill=2. Then to hit is 7(Routine)-2(Wpn)-1(Dex) = 4+. Assume that you do well and roll 8 i.e. +4 over.
Pen = 3, Cloth = 5, so zero penetration. You get x4 damage for your roll = so 3 x 4 = 12, x 0.1 for low pen = 1.2 damage. Even if you rolled 12 i.e. +8, you'd get 3 x 8 x 0.1 = 2.4 damage. Seems a bit low to me for an SMG at 5m range.
Very few weapons have >5 Pen: Snub HEAP, Gauss Rifle, ACR DS, ARL HEAP/KEAP, LAG KEAP. Even most machine guns, except HMG-6 & VRF Gauss only have Pen 3 or less. Most lasers would do alright.
Dunno, does Cloth seem a bit too good, or are pentetrations a bit low for some weapons? Maybe that's a good thing, it will keep PCs alive, but I can't see why you'd wear Jack,Mesh or Flak, Law level apart.
cheers,
Mark
Mark: while it's not "errata," Here's my solution to that issue...
change the Pen Thresholds.
Pen =
0.1AV to 0.4999AV = x0.1 Dam
0.5AV to 0.9999AV = x0.5 Dam
1.0AV to 1.9999AV = x1 Dam
2.0AV and up = x2 Dam
Not only is it more memorable, it produces results more comparable to striker.
change the Pen Thresholds.
Pen =
0.1AV to 0.4999AV = x0.1 Dam
0.5AV to 0.9999AV = x0.5 Dam
1.0AV to 1.9999AV = x1 Dam
2.0AV and up = x2 Dam
Not only is it more memorable, it produces results more comparable to striker.
It's caused by a difference in how the values are used. In Striker, it's 2d6+Pen-AV and lookup on the table for damage.
In MT, however, it's a direct comparison. But they didn't adjust the pen nor av stats at all... they just added a damage stat to striker pen and av.
In MT, however, it's a direct comparison. But they didn't adjust the pen nor av stats at all... they just added a damage stat to striker pen and av.
I basically agree, Anthony, but it's not so memorable.
It's also not nearly so much fun. It puts most small arms doing x.5 vs most armors, including lower TL Battledress & combat armor.
Also damage (energy dump to target) isn't exactly linear with penetration capability.
It's also not nearly so much fun. It puts most small arms doing x.5 vs most armors, including lower TL Battledress & combat armor.
Also damage (energy dump to target) isn't exactly linear with penetration capability.
I dug out my old copy of Striker and had a read through it again. Interesting. I immediately wondered if it would be possible to go to (2d6+Pen-AV) in MT instead, as that's pretty straightforward. Also the autofire bonuses, would it be worth giving those for autofire in MT e.g. SMG at Effective (Short) = +4 to hit, since MT has no real benefit to autofire vs one target?
Striker also answers my Danger Space question (above), basically saying roll 8+ to be hit when in a danger space. I may use this, or I was thinking of a task something like:
To hit a target in a danger space:
Sim, Dex, 2x(hexes from target hex)
or
To avoid being hit in danger space:
Diff, -Dex, -2x(hexes from target hex)
thanks for the suggestions,
Mark
Thinking further about the Striker system and it's relation to MT, I was wondering if it would be feasible to use the Striker table to generate wounds ratings as well, i.e. Striker used 2d6+Pen-Armour:
3- : no effect
4-7 : light wound (3D)
8-11 : heavy wound (6D)
12+ : dead
Would it be feasible for MT to use something like:
3- : no effect
4 : 1D
5 : 2D
6 : 3D
7 : 4D
8 : 5D
9 : 6D
10 : 7D
11 : 8D
12 : 9D
i.e. 2d6+Pen-Armour-3 = wounds? (You could get the same effect by adding 3 to all armour ratings, which would simplify it a bit).
I suppose that this does tie penetration and damage together, as Striker did, rather than having a separate damage rating.
So for an SMG vs Cloth, normal (average) hit, you'd get 7(2d6)+3(Pen)-7(Armour)-3 = 0D. Max would be roll of 12+3-7-3 = 5D damage.
(Striker would give 7+3-7=0D,max 12+3-7=6D) MT would give 0.1 x 3 = 0 damage, Aramis' table would also give 0.1 x 3 = 0 damage).
As per Striker, each +2 over the to hit roll would give you an extra hit, rather than the MT method of multiplying damage.
This seems fairly consistent with the original Striker damage, where average damage would be 0, and max would have been 6D.
At higher ratings, say VRF Gauss (Pen 21) vs Battle Dress (AV 18), average would be 7+21-18-3=7D (Striker would give 6D, MT would give 5D, Aramis' modified table would give 10D).
I'm not entirely sure that this would work properly - any thoughts? Maybe with a bit of tweaking, but it seems a consistent system that simplifies MT to give similar results, and it does provide a bit more variation on damage. I'm sure there's a hole somewhere though!
Mark
3- : no effect
4-7 : light wound (3D)
8-11 : heavy wound (6D)
12+ : dead
Would it be feasible for MT to use something like:
3- : no effect
4 : 1D
5 : 2D
6 : 3D
7 : 4D
8 : 5D
9 : 6D
10 : 7D
11 : 8D
12 : 9D
i.e. 2d6+Pen-Armour-3 = wounds? (You could get the same effect by adding 3 to all armour ratings, which would simplify it a bit).
I suppose that this does tie penetration and damage together, as Striker did, rather than having a separate damage rating.
So for an SMG vs Cloth, normal (average) hit, you'd get 7(2d6)+3(Pen)-7(Armour)-3 = 0D. Max would be roll of 12+3-7-3 = 5D damage.
(Striker would give 7+3-7=0D,max 12+3-7=6D) MT would give 0.1 x 3 = 0 damage, Aramis' table would also give 0.1 x 3 = 0 damage).
As per Striker, each +2 over the to hit roll would give you an extra hit, rather than the MT method of multiplying damage.
This seems fairly consistent with the original Striker damage, where average damage would be 0, and max would have been 6D.
At higher ratings, say VRF Gauss (Pen 21) vs Battle Dress (AV 18), average would be 7+21-18-3=7D (Striker would give 6D, MT would give 5D, Aramis' modified table would give 10D).
I'm not entirely sure that this would work properly - any thoughts? Maybe with a bit of tweaking, but it seems a consistent system that simplifies MT to give similar results, and it does provide a bit more variation on damage. I'm sure there's a hole somewhere though!
Mark
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